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Migrating to a new boxen!

Zee

Migrating to a new boxen!
« on: October 12, 2001, 11:33:33 PM »
I've been extremely happy with e-smith 4.1.2  I have no plans to upgrade to V5 at all.  My company (20 ppl) rely heavily on e-smith.  We run a small gfx production company.  We've done several small tests and we have concluded that we need a more powerful e-smith server.  Right now the machine is a P3-450 with 512MB SDRAM.  We need more oomph.

So my question is.............

What would be the correct procedure to move my current e-smith to a new box.  (Tyan Tiger MP with dual 1.4Ghz Athlons).

I have installed many rpms such as awstats, ezmlm, and also we have modified mysql to fit our needs.  Is there some way we can just move the whole thing to a new machine without any problems?  

We need all the data that is on the server such as the e-mails as well as all the mySQL tables and such.  It is also imperative that all custom cron jobs and basically everything should be working once migrating to the new box.

Does the webmail backup and restore copy EVERYTHING over as well as the cronjobs for each user??

sage

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2001, 12:46:34 AM »
e-smith does not recgnise the 2nd processor.  I tryed this and it did not work.  I had to use axonlinux for my dual processor box.  It will install fine but hangs during boot when you select the dual option.  It will start and run fine if you choose the option to use only one processor.

Rich Lafferty

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2001, 12:58:57 AM »
ESSG 4.1.2 with all updates should work fine on a dual-processor machine, as long as the installer recognizes that that motherboard is dual-processor; SME Server v5 will work on dual-processor machines right out of the box (with the same caveat).

If the 4.1.2 installer is not recognizing your machine as SMP-capable, try SME Server v5; if that still doesn't recognize it, please let us know at bugs@e-smith.com.

(If we don't know about the problem, we can't fix it!)

Cheers,

  -Rich

Zee

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2001, 01:30:58 AM »
Is this a Tyan Tiger MP specific problem?

Prior to our Athlon 700 we had a Dual 300Mhz Celeron BP6 motherboard and e-smith 4.1.2 picked up the dual proc from the get go and it worked fine.

The reason we upgraded to an Athlon 700 was that the on board IDE controller somehow went on the fritz, and we were experiencing large amounts of data corruption after extended uptimes.

dave

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2001, 10:38:51 PM »
i didn't know 1.4g athlons could work in a dual-processor situation under any circumstances - it's why penguin, valinux, etc. have ads for lots of sinlge-proc athlon systems and dual-proc pentium systems...  as far as e-smith, i could be wrong but isn't it (4.1.2) based on redhat 7.0?  and hasn't redhat been smp-capable since rh5.2?

Kelvin

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2001, 03:19:09 AM »
Dave is correct. As I understand it, Athlon MP CPUs are only available in 1.0 and 1.2 Ghz. If you are indeed using 1.4Ghz CPUs in your dual Athlon board, I suspect you are either overclocking (which might then be a stability issue) or the Athlons are only running single processor at the moment.


Kelvin

andrew

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2001, 06:19:35 AM »
Umm, from memory I dont think the current e-smith kernel supports the dual athlon configuration. You might want to check the hardware compatibility list first to confirm.

Yes the axonlinux will support this setup, but that runs a highr kernel the the current.

good luck.

Kelvin

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2001, 08:32:35 AM »
Hmm ... I thought Rich Lafferty's posting (3 or 4 back) implies that with the necessary updates, ESSG 4.1.2 does support MP systems and SME 5 supports it out of the box.

Can anyone at e-smith confirm this as I make recommendations from time to time to interested parties and would like to have a definitive answer as to whether or not ESSG 4.1.2 is MP capable or not.

Kelvin

Des Dougan

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2001, 01:15:35 AM »
Kelvin,

The issue here is with the kernel, not specifically with e-smith. Andrew was indicating that the kernel version used by e-smith doesn't have SMP support for Athlon CPUs only. SMP support in general has been in the Linux kernel for a long time, so you could use Intel processors without a problem.

HTH,

Des Dougan

Kelvin

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2001, 03:37:58 AM »
Thanks for the reply Des.

However, I am aware that the kernel is the main key here. As in any systems solutions, I asked e-smith because e-smith must be aware (or be made aware) of any capabilities / shortcomings of a system that they have put together (even if they did not write the kernel themselves). If nothing else, it builds up a knowledgebase for the benefit of any others who might seek to find similar answers and information.

I still would like confirmation that the 2.2.16-x kernel supports / does not support Athlon MP systems. Since the 2.2.16-x kernels support ix86 MP systems, does it also support Athlon MP systems ?

Anyone ?

Kelvin

Chris

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2001, 11:05:55 AM »
All this MP stuff is great, and as a confused user a diffinative answer would be great.

But i am very interested in the back up part of Zee question, as I will have to rebuild my 4.1.2 server soon due to a understanding with a hdd. (see general phorum)

Althow my setup is nowhere near what Zee's sounds like, as a web developer i soon want it to be. (thats is i can get my head around PHP and mysql as i have been trained in ASP and Access. If anyone knows of a good tute to get me going i would be most greatfull.)

Maybe one of you over worked guru's out there could make a HowTo
please..... ;-)


Fodder......

Rich Lafferty

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2001, 07:04:20 PM »
4.1.2 is SMP-capable right out of the box; it will run both processors on supported hardware. Some updates are required to get the entire system MP-aware (in particular, pppd comes to mind); the updates are available on ftp.e-smith.org.

-Rich

Chris O'Donovan

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2001, 04:48:21 AM »
I'm wondering whether more CPU is what the original poster needs.

It is possible that the bottleneck is bandwidth and a faster network card would help more than a faster CPU. A linksys gigabit starter kit (one gigabit adapter and an eight port 10/100 + one gigabit port switch) is $US171 at buy.com.

Does anyone know if the linksys gigabit card works with linux?

Chris

Patrick Basile

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2001, 08:22:46 PM »
What about the question of migrating the 4.1.2 server setup to V5 on the new box?

Geoff Bennion

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2001, 04:51:25 PM »
What about the hard disk ? - I have found that this is our biggest bottleneck.
(Duron 800 with s/w raid udma 100).

Kelvin

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2001, 05:04:38 PM »
S/W RAID will definitely cause a performance penalty. Spring for an IDE Mirroring controller. They're not that expensive.

ADDRAGYN

Re: Migrating to a new boxen!
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2001, 09:54:24 AM »
Zee I agree with "extremely happy with e-smith 4.1.2 ", it does what it's supposed to very well. Nice piece of sw - hats' off to their crew.

The idea that you need a new server with more flash seems premature. Unless you want to upgrade to the k7 for the experience it's more likely one of your designers could use that system. You've made it clear you've put alot of work into custoimzation and that your pleased with the results. The hw is as much a part of you satisfaction as is the e-mith sw and the tweaks you've added. With only 20 people I'm almost positive, that is - sure enough to bet big change, that you could get exactly the results your looking for with minimal changes to the system. This keeps the parts of the equation intact. Fewer changes you make means the less likely your gonna go from "extremely happy" to frustrated and angry. Not to mention losing money. The point I've tried to so wordily make is that the question needs more consideration before it can be answered. Enough with the rant, let's get technical.

Are you sure the problem really is the server? There's not a misconfiguration somehwere and a box is flooding your network w/ broadcast storms. Just an example. I'd check because your sever sounds qualified, overly even, for a 20 user load.

If it is the server the first thing to do is find the bottleneck with the current machine. If you can't or can't minimize it with a reasonable solution then it's time to look for a new box. It would be helpful if you could describe what the machine actually does and under what kind of load. I've seen lesser machines serve 4 times the users you've got, on top of NT! A little linux system, p166 w/ 32 megs, easily handles email for 70+ people, this is at a publishing company w/ alot of large attachments passing through plus webmail interface. But neither of these is simultaneously pushing a high volume website - maybe your server is. More details are definitely necessary. Generally the hd(s) is/are the weakest link in a production machine. With ram being so cheap there's no reason not to plugin the max the board can support. That leaves cpu and network and with 20 users it's unlikey either is causing the slowdown. See what you can upgrade as far as drives and interfaces. Storagereview.com has great hd reviews(imagine that!) The only reason to use any type of raid solution would be for the redundancy mirroring would provide in event of a hd failure. To a certain degree all raid is sw raid, either way the cpu hit is negligible. Almost certainly your running an ide drive off the mobo controller. With a p450 it might be udma/33. So think of getting a seperate controller udma/66 controller card if you don't mirror then consider setting up the system on one drive and storing data on another. Newer ide drives are much better performers versus their parents. And keep them on their own channels. Likely that 450 is running a bx chipset which to this day is considered the best one Intel has ever produced. No reason to give up that stability for the newer, unmature AMD 760mp chipset on the 1st gen tyan board. If you do need more cpu brawn consider using another box to divide tasks between - might even be able to use an old one lying around. Could also have a security benefit if you can isolate public and private resources. At this point I would not consider a AMD dually in a production situation - at home, hell yeah! So the question is: what's does this machine need to do and how much of "this" will it be processing.

You mentioned a bp6 in your other post. If your problem was with the highpoint controller, the secondary udma ports - the white ones, that has been well documented. I just removed it from my board and bought a controller card. That board would make a nice database box as your second server. Had to mention it,  I'm fond of that bp6.

Feel free to shoot me a email about this.