Topic: New Contribs

[RonM]

OK, good point! Maybe we can make the "structural" pages this way - contribs, HTC, etc, and make a link to "this month's contribs" on one of them. Leave that page, and all the Topic and  metadata pages, editable by everyone.

It'd be good if more folks would take advantage of it ;-)

Thanks!

[monkey]

The wiki does suck in terms of lack of layout/columns, etc - It is hard to get used to it in those ways if you are used to html. Use HTML on the main pages by all means, but those pages should not have content that has to be updated monthly IMO.

We could setup something more suitable for docs then, if you have a suggestion, I can arrange it.

[wellsi]

I would still prefer a decent database for the contrib info and then generate the pages from the database.

This would seperate the content from the presentation.

(The feedback could stay as now in the forums)

This would essentially take the good part of the Web-Links (database, and anyone enter the information) but allow a better presentation, as well as vastly reduce maintenance.

[RonM]

Thanks, Monkey! Hehe - Zope, anyone?

Just kidding...

Seriously, the only value we've been adding with all this is structure, concatenation, links to feedback, and preview info.

The HTC helps folks browse to find contribs, and tries to give info to help them decide which one to use. Search would work pretty well also, gives links to forums, and concatenation; weblinks gives a browseable interface and groups similar items too - it's just short on preview info, and links to feedback.

IMO, the issue we have is that we're trying to "organize" a collection of documents we don't own, or often even host - they're scattered all over the web. Master Sleepy's, Schirrm's Studio, Shad's old site, etc., etc. already have the above features in one way or another, and the HTC only duplicates it, with a consistent interface, but manually, and rather poorly. For instance, in this thread we've spent the better part of a week talking about "New contribs in the last 30 days" and how best to present/update it, when search and weblinks will do this for us, without anyone needing to update anything.

I don't think that adding page layout (or replacing the wiki) is going to do much to change the situation. One can certainly see why e-smith.org posted a short list, and left it at that ;-) In addition, the wiki has benefits that we should acknowlege, and is beginning to see more use - Greg's update script for instance, an inspiring example of community at work, enabled by the forums and the wiki.

All the tools contribs has tried for this purpose over the years have sucked at layout, but as Ian points out, weblinks is the closest to what we are talking about here. If there were some tool (call it weblinks-prime) that would enable the following, I'd certainly be willing to help with the work to move to it:

- global editing of individual components (i.e, remove all "Contribs.org certified" entries)
- sorting and grouping on any attribute or cluster (i.e. all hard disk contribs with GPL licenses for 6.0.1-1)
- required fields in new entry creation
- embedding external page views in an iframe in the output display
- scheduled structural, file change date, and bad link testing
- automatic creation of forum thread(s) either upon new entry or when user clicks a link
- ability to display summary and other metadata info
- clean browseable interface that maintains context and link target predictability
- easy editing/updating by registered users
- good indication of the range of global resources avail - in one place

In another thread, I mentioned a site that seems to have many of these features:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=24342.0

While this could be built with AMP or zope, I'm unaware of any webapps that can do this OOB. Otherwise, I'd prefer to stick with what we have, and try to strike the right balance between presentation and community involvement.

[gregswallow]

We could setup something more suitable for docs then, if you have a suggestion, I can arrange it.

Thanks for the offer!

Looks like there are some new features/plugins for PHPWiki  http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/demo/en/ReleaseNotes - I don't know exactly what version is installed on contribs.org, but it looks like some updates are available that will help with design and functionality. (edit - figured out the installed version - 1.3.5pre) - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Version - newest released version is 1.3.10

One feature in the new version is a better CreatePage function that lets a person create a page with a default Template - that will really help to encourage people to use contribs.org to publish their work. - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/demo/dba/CreatePagePlugin.  Lots of other features too.

I'm not familiar with administration of a Wiki, but is it possible that a page's creator have more power over the page they created - ie, undoing changes someone made to it.  I think that would be a good feature - especially to encourage people to post their contribs/howtos on this site instead of their own - which I think we can all agree that is a step in the right direction.

Another wiki admin change I would make is (if it is possible) to have external links automatically open in a new window.  There has to be some sort of global setting for that, and if not there should be.

[RonM]

Been a while since I looked at the plugins - there do seem to be some good ones:

Rich Table adds a true table to the wiki (won't nest tables though)

Unfold Subpages opens all or part of sublinked pages

Wiki Blog would work for feedback if we want - I put an example linked off the How-to Classification Admin page

Only wiki blog seems to be installed here so far

there's also a global text search and replace plug in - need admin access for it.

The biggest thing left IMO is link checking - we could use a client based tool for this, or maybe dev a plugin for it ourselves?

[gregswallow]

I would still prefer a decent database for the contrib info and then generate the pages from the database.

That would be cool, but I would prefer to make it easier for someone to post a contrib to contribs.org than put the same info on their own website.  Whether it is a simple howto, rpm files or whatever.  With some of the new plugins for the Wiki I think that is possible...There is an upload plugin that looks interesting - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/UploadMechanism - and the CreatePage plugin I mentioned I think would let us make a template(s) for contribs and then authors could easily post their own, rather than making a forum post and relying on RonM and mbachmann, etc to make a metadata page.  

Lycoris has version 1.3.10 on their dev website - http://dev.lycoris.com/index.php/SystemInfoPlugin - so I know someone there could help update contribs.org with all the new features...Thanks in advance

[jcoleman]

Guys,

We will be glad to help with new plugins.  Give us till the new year to get going on this as we are all trying to end up our real life business issues :>

If you folks will get a list of plugins together that will help out, we can start addressing those needs.  Only one caveat.  The version of phpWiki that is used here is a bit hacked for use in Xoops.  Not all plugins may work.

BTW, isn't the Weblinks app a database :>

Cheers,

-jeff

[RonM]

Thanks Jeff!

The plugins that have been suggested so far:
RichTablePlugin
http://www.koders.com/php/fidDD34CD519159C46B5091F1C471DE8B00C2B8C3D4.aspx

A PhpWiki plugin that allows insertion of tables using a richer syntax. Use for column layout to conserve vertical space. Table content freely editable.


PageTrailPlugin
http://www.koders.com/php/fid4176544783422EA50126315EF84E7B77DD9DDB9F.aspx

Put this in each page to store the trail. Perhaps replace the manual bread-crumbs at the top of each MD page.


UnfoldSubpagesPlugin
http://www.koders.com/php/fid05CD03C629FD7E630D0CE141B14BEFDF0FD6413C.aspx

Lists the content of all SubPages of the current page. Potentially useful to include feedback display on MD page.


CreatePagePlugin
http://www.koders.com/php/fidC042F0AD76911BED2C1A9FBA97DCDAE207D9129D.aspx

This allows you to create a page geting the new pagename from a forms-based interface, and optionally with the initial content from some template. Not necessary for us to create MD pages (Ian's php page is better), but might encourage new community submissions.


WikiBlogPlugin is already installed.


Potentially more controversial - must be Admin to run

UpLoadPlugin (or WikiFormPlugin)
http://www.koders.com/php/fid64802171A16F195E25753A1271AD6270B0066019.aspx

Allow Administrator to upload files to a special directory, which should preferably be added to the InterWikiMap. (This is a replacement for MagicPhpWikiURL forms)

I'm not sure what Greg has in mind for this.

WikiAdminSearchReplace
http://www.koders.com/php/fidC5D2E7D8AA9A5B0D1D3875134EC87E5A8ED44514.aspx

Allows global search-and-replace. Able to exclude pages and include columns. Necessary for professional maintenance of the wiki info. An example of use would be to remove "Contribs certified" entries, or to change all feedback urls to a named wikiblog page.

[mbachmann]

So weblinks-prime would provide an editable weblinks section? I really would like to to a little editing work on this. It looks ugly.

[gregswallow]

....regarding upload plugin....
I'm not sure what Greg has in mind for this.

I can see it as a way for people to upload their contrib rpm files to contribs.org - maybe rather than creating more contribs.org/contribs directories - no administration work required.  I think the plugin will work for any authenticated users, not just administrators.

I was looking at phpwiki - sems to have changed quite a bit from 1.3.5 to 1.3.10 (all the mentioned plugins are included in the new version).  Might be easier to replicate the xoops hacks into the new version.

[cranky]

Would an alternate xoops module be of any use here?
http://www.zonatim.com/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=WiwimodHomePage

Perhaps Jeff, et. al. could add the module (v0.7.1) on a temp basis for us to evaluate?

If phpwiki is more powerful, then forget about this...
But on the surface, the:
- file upload support
- page navigation and TOC
- xoops comment support
- etc.
might help the doc organization right out of the box without waiting for custom hacks to phpwiki.

Just a thought...

[jcoleman]

Would an alternate xoops module be of any use here?
http://www.zonatim.com/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=WiwimodHomePage

Perhaps Jeff, et. al. could add the module (v0.7.1) on a temp basis for us to evaluate?

If phpwiki is more powerful, then forget about this...
But on the surface, the:
- file upload support
- page navigation and TOC
- xoops comment support
- etc.
might help the doc organization right out of the box without waiting for custom hacks to phpwiki.

Just a thought...

Taking a look at the features of Wiwimod, it looks cool.  But after installing it in a test xoops environment, we would be giving up a HUGE amount of features and almost all of our existing pages would have to be completely rewritten.

Thanks for the tip tho....

-jeff

[RonM]

Is it time to re-open this thread and see about installing some of the plugins or upgrading phpwiki?