Topic: Need help upgrading from 5.6 to 6.5 AND migrating to new HW

[drfresh]

I have an old 5.6 installation. It serves as mailserver and webserver and serves me good. But its very old and slow HW so I'm going to upgrade to 6.5 (guess that's the recent) and to new HW.

Now I have installed some contribs, mostly some additions to horde, and mydms, but generally I have used it for testing purposes along with using it as a "production" mileau so I would like to get a clean install (apart from mydms which I use quite alot) that I can extend as needed.

I don't want to loose my users, their mails, my mydms setup plus content and the content of my ibays.

What is the way to upgrade from 5.6 to 6.5 and migrate from one machine to another?

I'm a beginner and not very familiar with linux so please be quite specific

I thank you all in advance for any help given.

Dr. Fresh

[MSmith]

You want someone to develop for you and hold your hand while you implement a step-by-step procedure for an upgrade path from a 5.6 box on old hardware, with some unspecified contribs on it, that you've used for testing AND production, to SME version 6.5 on new hardware while preserving users, emails, folders and *some* of your installed contribs.

I'm not going to include any of the sarcastic remarks that came immediately to mind, much as I want to ... I'll just say that that's a very tall order indeed and I'll be quite startled if you get anyone to do that for free.  In fact, I'd be startled if anyone would do it for less than $1000 US, because it'll be a beast of a job.  It'd probably take someone experienced with Linux & SME four or five hours just to understand fully the current state of your server, much less plan and execute the upgrade.

Call me pessimistic, but I don't really see it working out for you at all without some mad genius coming to your rescue.  Actually I'm sort of in your shoes, as my home LAN SME server is 5.6u6 with lotsa contribs, but when I decide to upgrade to new hardware I'll be starting from scratch ... which is what I'd strongly advise you to start planning for.

[hordeusr]

Build the new server and set it up just like you want.  use the lazy admin tools to create the users/ibays/etc...  Copy the files in your ibays from the old server to the new server (could do this from a windows machine)  Use the IMAP migration tool to transfer accounts ( http://migrationtool.sourceforge.net/)  You will need to configure the migration tool and test it before you have your users use it.  That's how I transfered all my users "stuff" when I upgraded from 5.1.2 to 6.0. --I'll do the same thing when I go from 6.0.1 to 6.5 when it's done.

[drfresh]

To hordeuser:

Thanks for YOUR constructive answer!

Is it a possibility to build a new 5.6, restore a backup (I see it contains all users, mails and content of my iBays, as far as I can see) and upgrade from that to 6.0.1 and later to 6.5? I know I'll have some troubles with the databases (e.g. myDMS). But I'll probably be able to transfer them using some db-tools.

Dr. Fresh

[italo]

Hi drfresh,

I am not familiar with mydms, but the rest of the things you want to keep, except for added customizations, are easily backed up by doing from the server manager a backup to desktop. Then make usre that when you upgrade you do it incrementally, meaning upgrade first to 6 and then 6.5. Once that is done, you simply restore from desktop and  all your users, ibays etc will be restored, plus the old server setup (IP and so on or whatever that was from the backup).

I followed, as many others on this forum, this simple procedure and never been any happier.

Italo

[hordeusr]

I never have very good luck with upgrading(many changes to the 'stock' SME set-up).  My backups are huge and don't restore directly (+4 gig).  If you can get the upgrade thing to work correctly, then go for it.

[wbtedrick]

I've done the exact thing you are trying to do, that is move from old system to new HW and then upgraded to ver 6.0 using the backup to desktop option. Here's what I do. #1 Backup the old machine to desktop. #2 Set up the new machine with the same version SME as the old server and then restore the desktop backup to the new system #3 go through the setup again on the new one to ensure the NICs are correct then test it and if it seems to be all right then #4 upgrade to the newer SME version on the new machine.  Of course it is a very good practice to keep the old server ready and unmodified just in case something goes wrong (Murphy's law).  I use this process all the time to duplicate the users and ibays on a clean system for replication purposes.  I suppose I could do something with LDAP but most often I'm setting up redundancy and backup system with cheap hardware that otherwise would go unused.  And that is the real beauty of SME the low cost

[drfresh]

Thanks for the answers all - well MSmidt's comments says more about him than the nature of my Q    

I think wbtendrick's method sounds like the way I'm trying to follow.

Dr. Fresh

[MSmith]

I still think drfresh is heading for trouble, especially on a production server that's also been used for testing, i.e. rpms installed/removed, configuration changed and changed again.   I hope drfresh will keep the community apprised of how the project goes and prove me wrong with a step-by-step account of what he did and how he did it ... but frankly I am still skeptical.  I suppose the point at which it would have been easier and less time-consuming to start fresh than to attempt an "upgrade" does vary from person to person; me, I value my time greatly and would prefer to do the job and put it behind me.

The law of unintended consequences can bite you when you least expect it ... my latest SME issue in that regard was what I thought would be a simple upgrade from 5.5 to 6.01-01, on a bone-stock server that had been running perfectly for months.  (After the fact I found out I should've done the 5.5->5.6->6.01-01 route but too late, since I was overconfident and didn't copy the mirrored drives.)  

After the upgrade, everything worked perfectly ... except ... no workstation on the LAN could get DNS resolution. Period.  Ping by IP, fine.  No name resolution ever, even when ISP's DNS server's explicitly added.  After posting that question on the forums and reading about a couple of other people with the same issue, I chose to back up the files, reformat & install a fresh 6.01-01.  Now I don't give that server a second thought ... it just runs.

In drfresh's scenario, if it works at all he'll have to watch it like a hawk for a month, at least, to make sure there's no subtle glitch that escaped his immediate attention.  A shared printer problem, perhaps, or a directory permission that's gone awry, or a contrib that left some template modifications behind, or a backdoor into the system left behind by a partially-removed PHP-based contrib.

Or he can just hope that absolutely nothing goes wrong ... or that the users of this production server are the understanding and sympathetic type.

So I stand by my original post, in which my intention was to discourage a risky undertaking on a production server.  But since it's going to be transferred and upgraded on new hardware, I'll say "go for it mate but don't reformat that old server just yet!"

Good luck!  Keep the thread alive by posting your results, preferably in detail so others can learn from your feat.

[zan]

Thanks for the answers all - ...  

I think wbtendrick's method sounds like the way I'm trying to follow.

Dr. Fresh

Sounds like the best approach as well.  Besides, it isn't like you are messing with the server in place.  You have all kinds of flexability with the new hardware.

[drfresh]

Well MSmith - I see all your points are very well argumentet now  

But I think you could use your highly valuated time to help me on one simple question then, if you have a clue and/or the time: If I then only want to move my users (none have local files), passwords, mailboxes (including mails) to the new server. What would be best practice. Remember I'm a novice in the SME-world.

I guess I can move the MyDMS install (it's only files and a database - I guess I can find some info on how to "copy" the database). And the content of my iBays is also only some HTML-files I can move manually.

I'll keep this thread alive, as you suggest, by posting my experiences.

Thanks!

[MSmith]

http://mirror.contribs.org/smeserver/contribs/mblotwijk/HowToGuides/lazy-admin-tools.htm

As referenced by hordeusr.  Are you using IMAP for your users' email?  If not, then you can just suspend email delivery for a bit and have them POP all their emails to their desktop clients.

[drfresh]

Well, it's me again...

I've looked through the Lazy-tools. I can't really see how I can use them for my purpose?

What I was thinking of now was a method like this:

Install V. 5.6 on the new server. Say the old server has ip: 192.168.1.X and the give the new 192.168.1.Y. Then I need to copy stuff from X to Y. Just users, their mail-boxes, i-bays and content, and what ever possible. Then "activate" server Y and upgrade that one to V. 6.0.1. Don't know if it's possible? Have I missed something?

Mails have to be copied - it's not an option to have people copy their mails locally as some uses this only as webmail.

I really can't be the first person in the world who want's to upgrade like this...

Thanks again!
Dr. Fresh

[MSmith]

... or else how were you planning on "copying" your users, groups, ibays, etc. from old to new server?  That's what "lat-dump" is designed to do -- take that configuration information so you can apply it to a new server.  When that's done, you should be able to copy each user's emails from the appropriate folder on the old server to the new using rsync or some sort of file-transfer-over-SSH method.  

No matter what, you're going to learn a lot about Linux in this process!

[drfresh]

Sorry to be a pain in the ....

I've tried it out. BUT passwords isn't copied. And that's essential, as I obviously don't know my users passwords. What did I miss THIS time?

sorry...

[MSmith]

I suppose you could try copying your /etc/passwd file but you can always reset your users' passwords via the server manager and get them to set new ones themselves.

[drfresh]

Hi again MSmith

I'll try copying the password file. But is that really the only place they are stored?

How can I get a user to create a new password? Where should an ordinary user login to set a new password? There must be something (more) here I don't know.

Dr. Fresh

[MSmith]

http://www.dungog.net/sme/files/userpanel/

[kirkf]

I'll try copying the password file. But is that really the only place they are stored?

Passwords are actually in /etc/shadow, and possibly in other places like /etc/smbpasswd.

Kirk