Topic: Volunteer suggestions?

[christiaan]

Hi

I would like to suggest two features to the main page of the website that I think are critical to development of the project.
I am not a developer so please excuse any misunderstanding of the technical processes involved. I should also say that I am not about to critise the good work that many volunteers have contributed so far.
It has been said many times by the experienced members of the community that a distro is only as good as its volunteers.

On a quick review of most of the main open source projects, what they have in common is a section of the project website that is dedicated information for volunteers. Each of these sections does two things it explains what is expected of volunteers and what areas volunteers can contribute to.  This information is critical in the recruitment of volunteers.

While the Debian volunteer section is very good for developers.  The Open Office project is better in that it sets out to be very clear and easy to understand for volunteers of all kinds. What is interesting about the Debian volunteer section is that it is very keen to stress that they are looking for new developers.
I wish to suggest that if SME server could develop that further by "packaging" volunteer projects to students. If development work was "packaged" in projects specifically aimed at undergrads then they could utilise this voluntary work as thesis or assignment work.
 
At present there is no structured means of input from the users into the development Roadmap and it would be valuable for the development team to have an ongoing poll of the most requested features from the user community.
The poll could consist of a Top Ten most requested Features and every registered user could vote on the poll. These features could then be gathered by posting a form on the website that users can fill in themselves.
I am not a developer but I imagine a script could be written to process this information into a Top Ten.

[girkers]

I concur with the sentiments voiced here.

I voiced my willingness to volunteer some time ago, but nothing ever eventuated.  Then ruffdogs came along and said that he will get things going, but alas, I see nothing.

It is bitterly disappointing.

Great idea.

[mbachmann]

This kind of wish list has been suggested and done here: http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Wish%20List

Problem: only few users contributed to it. Ergo: list does not matter to developers.

Debian and Ooo are not comparable with SME because Ooo hat 40+ full time developers form Sun and Novell. I would like to bring to your attention, that only 4 free developers are contributing to Ooo. Comparing SME with Debian is like comparing a lawnmower with a combine harvester.

It is very good to have volunteers and SME needs volunteers. However, the problem wich i see often occuring with volunteering is that there is a specific idea and the expectation that this idea is to be dealt with by others. Volunteers expect guidance, help and attention. And usually after a short time they have started something the volunteers attention drops because of various reasons including: too much work, noone noticed or honored  their work, noone joined them...

But if you are not scared: go right away to the wiki page named above, clean it up and get start with some polls in the forums. Do polls on a regulary base, get yourself familiar with the various contribs, places and people, update the page and don't expect everyone joining you or ecstatic comments after two weeks.

I maintain the New Development Announcements Section and the FAQ Section. I maintained NDA for nine months until the first sidenote/comment appeared in the discussion list.

[wellsi]

I maintain the New Development Announcements Section and the FAQ Section. I maintained NDA for nine months until the first sidenote/comment appeared in the discussion list.

I appreciate the continued effort that goes into the NDA, a one-stop view of what's new in the SME world.

Thank You

Ian

[guest22]

I maintain the New Development Announcements Section and the FAQ Section. I maintained NDA for nine months until the first sidenote/comment appeared in the discussion list.

I appreciate the continued effort that goes into the NDA, a one-stop view of what's new in the SME world.

Thank You

Ian

I ditto that, Thanks Mathias!

[mbachmann]

Thank you both but this was not a call for praise, i just wanted to explain that it could take a long time until volunteering work is noticed.

So, i've seen you, Ian and Hsing, doing a lot of things at Sourceforge, RequestedDeletion creating new sites over there and Ian constantly tracking down revisions, versions, changes in the various releases plus contributing to the lists. Now, is the divorce between Resource Strategies, Ruffdogs and Sourceforge now, err, final? Do you feel a need to "decide" for one place? I feel unsure. There is the Sourceforge crew, the contribs crew and the i don't know crew (Ruffdogs, ResStrat). As of Ians call recently to participate at the Ruffdogs lists i did register but have seen no activity. I don't like everything scattered around.

[wellsi]

The last email on the Ruffdogs list was 29th April, but I agree that it is mainly a waiting game. This is a pity as there is so much to do.

I would like to see less sources, especially rationalise the email lists and drop down to one bug-tracker. I can live with a core-developer site and a general site and then 'fan-sites'.

I now publish some things on my own site for two reasons. The difficulty in updating the wiki - you cannot just synchronise. Also the likelihood of the contribs site switching to a different engine meaning a lot of re-work. However I still put all of the key information on contribs.org as I belive it should be a one-stop-shop.

As for motivation - I totally agree that volunteers should realise that there is seldom ever any thanks for the work. I like receiving a problem relating to one of my HowTos as then I know somebody has actually used it

[mbachmann]

girkers and christiaan: it seems that we have discouraged or overtalked you. But what should one think if you are making suggestions for what volunteers should do or what should be done for volunteers with the only avail that your disappointment is expressed. You can right away start doing something. Familiarize with editing the wiki, start a page and realize your ideas. I'll help you.

[ergozd]

I just want to thank Mattias and Ian, the information flow has been im poroved since you guys stepped in and taken care of New Developments and all that detailed information.

It's helping me anyway. Have a great day and thanks again.

[christiaan]

Just so that I did not give the wrong impression. I am currently volunteering in the write up of the admin manual for IPcop. The reason I did this was because I got the distinct impression that suggestions or new ideas/ approaches are not welcome at contribs unless you do it yourself. I also asked how happy the  development team was out of genuine concern for the future of what is a great project and because it was clear from some of the postings that there is apathy from some of the leading volunteers   with what was going on with the project.
 
From what I have read that apathy has not gone away and I am still concerned me for the future of the project.

I would like to volunteer for contribs and others like me it seems  but at present it hard to see where the project is going. I dont know who is leading the project and where they are going with it?

[mbachmann]

Thanks for your answer, christiaan.

Leadership
From what i understand: The project is not lead by anyone and people seem to have always serious problems with it - tastes too much like Anarchy (which in fact means "being without a leader"). There is a "A Proposal For An Organizational Structure For Our Community" in the General Discussions Forum to staighten things out.

Where they go
I see 6.5 and the 7.0 Centos on the road ahead.

Apathy
people made this kind of conclusion before. It goes like this: I suggested something. I noticed the suggestion
- not being discussed
- not being recognized
- not being considered
- not being noticed
- not being honored in any way

So: my contribution is ignored. Ergo: they are apathetic.

No, they are not. Possible reasons: bad timing, bad luck, not interested, busy with other tings, wrong place, holidays, done somewhere/sometimes before,  etc.

Doing it yourself
I got the distinct impression that suggestions or new ideas/ approaches are not welcome at contribs unless you do it yourself.

That's it, there you hit the major problem. There is a thin edge between positive ideas, suggestions and negative complaining. You can descibe it as a dilemma: someone wants something to be done but someone don't want to do it himelf (and keeps complaining about it because it is not being done).

This impression of yours will presumably last as long as someone does deal with a suggestion you've made with a positive result. Because this is a positive place i invite you to guide me to a "Volunteering Page" like you suggested. It has been tried before here: http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Volunteering Let's clean it up and start over.

[christiaan]

I am quite happy to discuss this further off-forum? Where?

[girkers]

I don't want or need kudos for voluntering and doing something, that is not what I am in it for.  This issue that I have is that I want to help, but don't know where to start.

I have no great idea of creating this that or the other, that is why I am looking for someone that needs help.  The volunter page is a great idea, I can look at what needs to be done and then volunter for what I feel I can accomplish.

I have no doubt there is many people like me that are reactive instead of proactive.

[mbachmann]

I invite you both, christiaan and girkers, to a chat: This Sunday, 15.05.2005 at 20:00 h Berlin Time (don't know what timezone you are) on irc://freenode/sme-server.

[girkers]

Sorry mbachmann I was not able to attend that time as I don't get the chance to check the forum everyday.  You are most welcome to PM or messenger me.

[simnux]

I think leadership is one of two absent ingredients.

When e-smith and Mitel ran the show, this was not an open source / open community project. This "community" was essentially providing free testing in return for free software. All decisions regarding features, direction, methods, interface, etc, resided with the corporate sponsor.

This environment resulted in a diseased community (when compared to a traditional open community) in that suggestions from the community were meaningless, contributions from the community were meaningless, complaints from the community where meaningless, etc. All power resided with the corporate sponsor. And if you didn't like it, tough.

Which I believe cultivated the lack of the second key ingredient for SME Server / contribs.org -- the ability to follow.

This community is so sickened by the effects of the e-smith and Mitel approach, I do not know if it is possible to recover. There are lingering effects in that some old-timers still have the "like it or lump it" attitude towards the community at large, and many other old-timers have the "why should I bother, I'll just get slapped back down" response to calls for help.

RuffDogs has their work cut out for them. I wish them luck!