Topic: VIA C3 for sme servers?

[ksc133]

hi folks,

i was thinking of using VIA C3 1ghz CPU for SME server.
i want a low heat system low watt system
is it powerful enuff for 50 users?

do u guys think it will work?

or should i use a Celeron M or Pentium M system?

thanks

[mike_mattos]

I tried to install SME5 on one of them years ago, no luck!

my local entry level component distributor is clearing notebook CPU's at very low prices.  If you are concerned about power and heat, I'd investigate those

or

for a very cheap system, look for an old Compag P3 , they are available for under $100 and with some more memory are great for low load servers and seem to run for ever

[CharlieBrady]

I tried to install SME5 on one of them years ago, no luck!

SME5 is *very* old.

I think various people are running (or have tried) SME7 on Via C3 systems. Some work fine, others have some problems. Check the bug tracker.

I've got a 1G C3 myself - unfortunately none of my motherboards has adequate BIOS support for it

[psoren]

ksc133,

I use the VIA Mini-ITX boards with embedded CPU. I have used both 500MHz and now the 1GHz. They are both working fine with SME. I have not tried SME7 on the 500MHz but i am sure that will work. I think the Pentium M is too expensive and you don't really get that mutch more in my opinion.

Per

[mike_mattos]

Since we're talking low power, any ideas about what to use for low heat low power hard drives?

[psoren]

Since we're talking low power, any ideas about what to use for low heat low power hard drives?

Maybe laptop drives (2.5"), but that adds low performance, low capacity but not low price......

Per

[ksc133]

i got a matsonic CLE266 chipset mobo with a C3 800mhz embeded recently.

to my horror SME7 can't install on it...

the CDROM won't even run the installer program..(anaconda?)
and keeps rebooting itself...

any ideas?

thanks folks

[adamperry]

I have used SME Server 6.0 and 7.x (throughout the beta and rc tests) with an Asus Terminator C3 with no problems.  It is a very tiny microtower that uses little electricity.  I think the entire box was using 60 watts or so last time I checked with my Kill-A-Watt meter.  The processor usually runs in the 90-95 degree F range.  It has more than enough processing power for my use as a personal mail/file/web server.  

I checked and the unit is still available at NewEgg (and probably elsewhere).

ASUS Terminator C3 Intel Socket 370 VIA C3 800MHz VIA CLE266 2x 184Pin VIA UniChrome 2D/3D Barebone - Retail $102.99

It's pretty inexpensive for what's included - basically you just need to add a hard drive and memory.  It even includes a CD-ROM drive.

As a side note.  I have another C3 box I run Windows on to serve MP3s/Photo/Video media to my Tivos and, by using a hardware MPEG TV card, it is more than adequate for even recording TV, which can be pretty processor intensive.  C3s are very energy efficient little processors and real gems for some uses.

[adamperry]

I forgot to mention, if you want low heat hard drives, you would be better off sticking to the 5400 RPM ones instead of 7200 RPM or higher.  You certainly don't see as many of these in a 3.5" form factor these days but if you have one or more around, it's generally a lower heat alternative.

[ksc133]

hi guys,

FYI

i found a bug on centos with c3

http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3982&forum=27&post_id=11699#forumpost11699

[ksc133]

sorry for the alarm

C3 is a i586 cpu

solution

1) Press shift while booting to get the boot menu.
  2) Type "smei586" at the boot prompt.

it rocks

  cheers!

[azche24]

Hi,

i want a low heat system low watt system
is it powerful enuff for 50 users?

C3 will do (it did at home in my SME 6/7 server) with 800 Mhz C3 and 512 MB RAM. But it is slow. Backup2, mail processing, file transfers -> slow. It will NOT do for 50 users even if you do serveronly.

PIII 800 office server with 80 GB IDE drive i just sold at ebay (for< 10 users) did work for that and had power consumption of 54 watt in total. You will not get much below that anyway, so for 50 users you should stick with an old but dedicated compaq P III server as stated here.

If you do not use fast SCSI drives, it will not be to hot and noisy.

[ksc133]

hi thanks for advice.

what if i add the maximum RAM to 2GB DDR 266?

will it help with the C3 speed for 50 users?

thanks

[ksc133]

hi folks

i 've test sme with C3 800mhz and 512mb ram

samba file transfer seems ok ... i did a backup test with 3PC sending 19gb*3 of data and it take 1hr.

but webmail is very slow... when i launch webmail, i can see under TOP the CPU is 69%... very slow man,,,

how do i increase the performance?

how will a "amd sempron 1.8ghz" perform with SME?
i was think of that if c3 really sucks...

thanks

[ksc133]

hi folks,

i just found out that AMD has a embedded low power CPU call AMD Geode.

which CPU and platform is best for embedded SME servers?
assuming all at same CPU speed.

VIA C3
AMD Geode
pentium/celeron M

cheers!

[marsa_matruh]

For performances, at same frequency, basic benchmarks show that Pentium M is two times faster than Via C3 for integer calculation. Moreover, last pentium M with 2 Mb of L2 cache should outperformed C3 in server use. In opposite, depend on what you want to do, both could be overscaled for your use. For home use with single user, Celeron 333 MHz is just fine   So, in such a case, you may lower power consumption with the Via C3 ... or by undercloking your pentium M. Pentium M is also more expansive.

For webmail, what do you mind by very slow? Which queries are slow? How long for each? Is it still slow if doing it again a second time just after the first one?

[ksc133]

when i launch horde webmail..the CPU LOAD became beri high 69%!!!

and the webmail response is slow...

[marsa_matruh]

when i launch horde webmail..the CPU LOAD became beri high 69%!!!

and the webmail response is slow...

Slow !!! Very precise !!!

1 second, 1 minut, 1 hour , 1 day ... to display the login page?

And when starting a task, CPU load should always go up to 100 %, maybe just for a fraction of second  

[azche24]

Hi,

hi folks
i 've test sme with C3 800mhz and 512mb ram
but webmail is very slow... when i launch webmail, i can see under TOP the CPU is 69%... very slow man,,,

you can not change that. Webmail backup2 contrib (with rar-compression) and some other functions are cpu-intensive. They work, but they work very slow on weak cpu like C3. Same with the webpanel.

A C3 will serve nearly endless users, if you leave out webmail, samba, hosting own websites and just stick with mail/proxy/gateway.

This does not depend on RAM. I checked it.

[the_mad_prof]

Would always suspect a processor that sounds like a certain french car  

Just to add to the last post, I think serving 50 users with a C3 box would be dodgy.  You will definitely want some redundandancy (multiple processors, raid) - and if your users start getting loads of spam that lilttle processor is going to struggle even if loaded lightly with web print & file serving.

Lots of ram would help but if you are determined to opt for low power servers you might consider splitting the tasks a bit - one for surfing and email, another for file, print & backup, etc.

Just my $0.02

[arne]

Have been running SME 5.6 and 6.0.1 for years on a C3 without one single crash or any problems. I guess it can work for SME 7.0 as well if you install it for a i586 architecture (C3).

[ksc133]

hi

i like c3 cpu cos of low power consumption and low heat.
but can a 800mhz c3 support up to 50 users running samba, email, and web applications like shopping cart and weberp?

i was thinking of maximizing the RAM to DDR 2GB, would it help?
and how about IDE ATA133 harddisk, can it support concurrent access of 50 users?

i was also thinking about celeron M and pentium M but they are too X.
any other CPU to work with? AMD geode?

thanks

[the_mad_prof]

I really don't think any 800MHZ processor low power or not would handle that kind of activity with anything like acceptable performance.  Personally I would prob be looking at a 2GHZ P4 or better with about the kind of ram you mentioned + raid.  Also, from an expandibility point of view you'd want some spare overhead as well - as soon as you get a few more users or telecommuters you're really going to have complaints.

[jameswilson]

I know im new here and i know that linux can be used on lower power hardware, but 50 users!, thats not a small network and i would suggest as others have here that you need serious hardware. I personally would go the pentium M route. If you have 50 users its gonna be worth the cash!

[ksc133]

hi guys,

thanks for your advice.

i've worked in a data center before. we have p3 and p4 servers in there.
we have noticed high failure rate for our p4 due to heat even though our aircon was 20 degree. the p3 are rock solid on the other hand.

my intented c3 desgin was meant for small coy eg: 50 users or less and may not have aircon after office hours.

heat is my major concern here.

so can a c3 1.4 ghz (max. in the market) do the job?

thanks

[the_mad_prof]

If you have or can borrow the hardware, give it a whirl.  If not I would urge you to consider an alternate route.  Anyway, you (normally) only need aircon in a datacaentre (a la the meltdown from a prevoius incarnation of contribs.org).  Agreed if you are handling 50 users you'll want a cool environment 'cos of the disks but a low power CPU isn't likely to help.  

Have you considered stealing from the overclocking community and using mega heatsinks or poss water cooling.  Don't think I've ever seen a water cooled server but I don't see why not.

[arne]

I do agree with this "low power and little heat philosophy".

Because of this I have runned Linux and SME servers on diverse low power platforms during the years.

First of all it is the C3 1000 installation without a cooling fan (the power supply and the processor actually has one common fan) This has been running for years and years without one single problem. This server was built to be quiet, and it is quiet. On the other hand it is not to powerfull.

I have used AMD Duron 1000, worked wery well, running rather cold and was more powerfull than the C3. I now also use Linux server (SME 7.0) based on a AMD XP 2400 that I have "underclocked" to perfom as XP 1500. It used to be hot when runned as XP 2400 but it is rather cold when runned as XP 1500, and it performs rather well.

I also use a P III 800, and I think the P III 800 actually is more powerfull, and more "modern" than the VIA C3 1000.

If I should buy a new hardware today, I think my favoirite choice would be AMD Semperon 2800 (1600 Mhz). I have not tried it myself yet, but I can see that people report this as a rather powerfull processor that runs with a temperature around 30-35 degres (With fan of cource).

I beleeave that the Semperon 2800 is a lot more powerfull and modern processor than the VIA C3, and also it is really cheap.

Anybody who has some experiences with Semperon and SME server ?

[arne]

I was just googleling a bit to se if there were some experiences with Semperon and the SME server, and I found this, in this forum:

When I first tested SME7 it was on an IBM Xseries server with a 1GB PIII processor, 128MB ECC ram and 18.2GB scsi drive. I found that the server manager was a bit sluggish, webmail was slow to open and refresh and email was slow to send (up to 30 secs) due to the antispam and virus processing that was happening.

I built a new server, 2.6 Semperon, 1GB RAM, 160GB SATA drives and everything is now lightning fast.

[marsa_matruh]

When I first tested SME7 it was on an IBM Xseries server with a 1GB PIII processor, 128MB ECC ram and 18.2GB scsi drive.

You mean 1 GHertz PIII??? With 128 MB of memory?

128 MB is not enougth for SME 7.0. This should explain why the PIII was so slow.


To compare with C3, Pentium M is en enhancement of the pentium III. You can find benchmark on C3/C7 (french cares) versus pentium M (in french of course) :
http://x86-secret.com/popups/articleswindow.php?id=128

For the integer calculation, at same frequency :
C3 = 1/2 (Pentium M)

About Geode, AMD use PR (performance rating) by comparing with the C3!!! So the Geode533 performe like a C3 at 533 MHz (said AMD). So Geode will not be better than C3.

I think the pentium M is the better solution for low heating but efficient server ... with 50 users !!! Moreover, you can use the pentium M Heatsink Less up to 800 MHz and FanLess up to 1,7 GHz !!!

http://x86-secret.com/articles/cm/g5m100-n/itxpm-9.htm

[ksc133]

how abt a celeronM?

is it cheaper and abt same performance as pentiumM?

[ksc133]

hi folks

how abt Duron processors at 1Ghz or more?

how's the heat and power consumption factor of durons?

r they betta than C3 and P3?

thanks

[arne]

arne wrote:
When I first tested SME7 it was on an IBM Xseries server with a 1GB PIII processor, 128MB ECC ram and 18.2GB scsi drive.  

... Actually it was just a copy - paste of something I Googgled at this forum. Some missprint I guess.

The only thing I noticed was that "someone" had tried SME 7.0 on AMD Semperon 2600, ant that it was "flying".

I think that there is a lot of good choices, and that most of them will perform bether than C3.

[arne]

"Duron processors at 1Ghz"

I have used a Duron 1000 and a Duron 1200.

Both runned rather cold, 30-34 deg celcius with fan.

Performes bether than C3. And it is 686.

Worked quite OK, but It was SME 6.0.1 I used. Don't know if the SME 7.0 will require more power ..

The Duron Processor performs quite well, and it runs quite cold, but still I believe it needs a fan. .. But I belive that the Semperon will work even bether (but this I have not tried myself, until now ..)