Topic: SME Clone backup server

[ber]

 

Hi wondering whether anyone has come across any server backup systems that runs a clone.

Would like to setup a hardware redundancy config, getting nervous about the hardware- want some peace of mind

Thanks

[arne]

I think there is no easy way to keep two servers fully syncronized.

But, using the standard backup to workstation function will give a full backup of the server datas and the configurations. To install a new server and to restore datas and configurations takes only half an hour. (If you have done it a few times.)

Personally I run the SME server virtually now, with vmware. Then it is possible to just stop the server for a minute and make a copy of the virtual server image. Then there will actually be a virtual copy of the whole installation. Doing it virtually it is possible to shut down the one server and to start the virtual backup server in a minute. (But they will not be fully syncronized.)

[JoshuaR]

There are a number of ways to use cloning to manage redundancy.  I suppose it depends what your individual needs are. 

One method is to take daily images of your server with a product like Acronis Image Echo server.  If your hardware fails you can restore these images to any hardware (in theory) using Acronis universal restore (I've used it with success before).

Another method is to set up your server as a VM, then you can take snapshots and have a second box with VMware set up.  That way if your first box fails, you can bring up the VM on the second box with minimal downtime.

There was another product I was looking at recently (it might be only a Windows product though, not 100% sure), but I can't remember the name and its driving me crazy     (I'll have a look and post back when I find the name)  Anyway, basically what it does is realtime incremental backups..anything that changes is instantly replicated to a cloned environment across your LAN (or WAN, but I believe this isn't as common for obvious reasons--although I do know some using it this way). It even creates restore points for the modified data, in case you need to restore something that's been modified a few times.

That's a couple ways of going about it...

[janet]

ber

The simplest already functional approach to take, is to use Affa.
Configure the backup job for very frequent backups eg hourly on weekdays, so your data will only be a maximum of one hour "out of date".

The dedicated Affa backup server can be anywhere, and can be brought online in 5 - 15 minutes using the affa --rise feature, (time depending on the amount of data etc).

See http://wiki.contribs.org/Affa

[JoshuaR]

(I'll have a look and post back when I find the name)

As promised 
http://www.doubletake.com/products/linux/default.aspx

The product is called doubletake, and if none of the other posted solutions fit your criteria, it might be worth having a look at.  They make a linux version, and the product provides asynchronous, byte-level, continuous replication (mouthfull and a half  )

[ber]

Joshua, thanks for the referal, looks good but beyond my budget and know how, looking for an easy contrib, Marys suggestion with Affa seems good, having a few problems trying to install it...Im a newbie and just scratching around with command lines. Got bad GUI withdraws!

[zatnikatel]

if you have the money you could try heart beat if SME supports it you have to server with the same config and data and if one goes down the other takes over you can do it with more than 2 server if you like

[smef@n]

Here's how I worked it out:

I have the following setup:
1. HP DL380 Server, 8x72GB SCSI HDD in RAID 5, 8GB RAM, 2x1Gbps NIC

2. VMWare ESXi 3.5 Hypervisor running on the Server

3. SME Server 7.4 installed as one of the Virtual Server

4. VMWare Infrastructure Client installed on my Workstation which is HPxw4550 Workstation with 2x750 GB HDD Running on RAID-1.

5. VMWare Converter running on my workstation

Here's what I did:

1. Connected VMWare Converter from my w/stn to the SME Server

2. Started a new "Convert" process

3. Provided the details of ESXi Server and got a list of Virtual Servers running over there

4. Selected the desired server to be copied i.e. SME Server 7.4

5. Selected the destination as a folder on my w/stn

6. Started the process.

Note, it takes pretty long for the copy process (mine took 2 hours) as the copying is done over LAN. Once you have a copy on your Hard Disk, you can deploy it back by reversing the process. This way you get an exact replica of your server with all the updates and Contribs installed.

[David Harper]

I realise this is an necro'd thread, but the Affa contrib is designed to provide regular rsync backups to a second server, which can then be promoted to replace the original source server at any later date.

[smef@n]

I do agree that this is an old thread but has vital information.

will AFFA or DAR, back up the updates or contribs? Because this method backup the entire hard disk as a replica.

[mercyh]

Look at the affa information here: http://wiki.contribs.org/Affa

With affa you maintain two servers at the same level. (all updates, contribs, versions are kept the same). Affa then rsync's the data, accounts, etc. over to the backup server on the schedule you specify. If the main server goes down, you rise the second server to replace it. The downtime is very minimal, possibly 15 minutes or less.

[smef@n]

Vow!!! Actually if Affa can maintain the Contribs as well as RPMs, then this is indeed the best solution. Many thanks 

[David Harper]

No, you need to read the post more carefully.

Your job:

With affa you maintain two servers at the same level. (all updates, contribs, versions are kept the same).

Affa's job:

Affa then rsync's the data, accounts, etc. over to the backup server on the schedule you specify.

[smef@n]

oops! my bad...

in this scenario what should be done if i need to avoid re-downloading the rpms and contribs? having a backup server on AFFA is not my intention as that would need investment in another server which can't happen. so pls advise: once again my main requirement is:

1. to prepare the sever and download all the updates
2. create a baremetal backup of entire server and store it on external hard disk or somewhere on LAN
3. Pray the server doesn't crash. once it does then deploy the image on a baremetal setup.

in a nutshell i need something i do with windows servers using Acronis True Image. I tried to do the same with SME but True Image failed as it can't handle LVM which is what SME runs on.

Please advise as I have convinced the management to stop the purchase of MS Exchange and adopt Open Source.

Thanks,
God Bless

[David Harper]

Assuming your typical recovery process in Windows is basically:

1. Deploy image to new server
2. Do Windows update
3. Do antivirus update
4. Restore user files from backup

SME Server isn't all that hard to rebuild by comparison:

1. Install latest version from CD
2. Run yum update
3. Reinstall contribs (yum --enablerepo=smecontribs install smeserver-xxx smeserver-yyy)
4. Do full restore using the Backup panel

So long as you plan your backup strategy carefully, the contrib settings and data are backed up along with the ordinary user data, so there's no need to spend hours reconfiguring everything. Using the new Backup with Dar system, available in SME Server 7.4, this should be fine, although you would want to test it to be sure.

The only issue that comes to mind is that you might have to configure the backup system to go into /opt if you have contribs installed there.

[smef@n]

thanks for the response. my concern still lies in the point where i have to re-download the contribs. I am not too much worried about the client data as there are many ways to back up the simplest one being tar.

please advise how can i take care of yum-update / contribs. is there a way i can perform the following steps:

1. install server
2. yum-update
3. backup yum-update stuff (contribs etc)
4. install server on a new hard disk (using CD)
5. transfer the yum-update stuff (contribs etc) on the new server thereby eliminating the need to re-update.

thanks

[David Harper]

I guess you could take an offline snapshot of the repositories on CD ... but I don't really see the point. Is there any reason you don't want to use yum in the event of a rebuild?

[smef@n]

well to start with, i live in Kenya. Bandwidth over here is as precious gold. hence i would like to avoid re-downloading the updates.

pls advise a solution to perform bare-metal level restoration. btw is there a way to integrate "remasterme" into SME Server. you may recall, remasterme is a special software that is distributed with distros like PCLos. Using this app, we can create a baremetal replica of the entire system that could be burnt onto a DVD and deployed anywhere with all the latest updates maintained.

thanks

[mercyh]

davidiwharper,
 
Thanks for clarifying my post.

[smef@n]

mercyh / davidiwharper

can you guys advise a solution to my problem. thanks

[mercyh]

smef@n,

I am not sure what your limitation is on the second server. (Money budget?, Time to maintain?).

A year ago I would have made the same comment you did about another server not being a viable option. I have since purchased a used server on ebay for $200 and it is performing the job nicely. I use this http://wiki.contribs.org/Netkeeper_Remote_Server_Monitor to watch both servers. It reports the last successful Affa job. I believe that I spend less time with this backup solution including the maintenance on the second server then I would with a comparable disk cloning solution.

All the SME backup solutions seem to be targeted at Data and Users only. I think the reason is that a clean install/update can be done in considerable less time than applying a disk image.

Your Bandwidth issue is a realistic concern where you are paying by the amount used.

I do think there is a disk cloning solution that can read the LVM partitions. I would google it and see if I could find it.

[mercyh]

I'm in way over my head here but am going to give you a couple of links to look at.

Disclaimer: I have tried none of this myself.

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/96509133/m/284001811931/inc/1

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/tags/dd

[m]

All the SME backup solutions seem to be targeted at Data and Users only. I think the reason is that a clean install/update can be done in considerable less time than applying a disk image.

I share this view. And I am glad about that the SME design does not require the use of bare metal restore tools like the buggy acronis stuff.
To save download costs on yum updates one can copy (or include into a backup) the /var/cache/yum/ directory from an updated SME master server to all newly installed servers. Then yum update reads the packages from the cache. When doing so, you should avoid a "yum clean" on the master, of course.

[David Harper]

I'm wondering whether the best solution might be to maintain a mirror on site, and then update the yum mirror list on the client servers.

You would still need the second server, and would need a rather large download first time around, but there are some advantages. Firstly, yum would select the mirror automagically with very little modification, and secondly, the downloads are compressed when you use rsync.

[janet]

smef@n

can you guys advise a solution to my problem

You would do well to read ALL of
http://wiki.contribs.org/Backup_server_config
particularly this section
http://wiki.contribs.org/Backup_server_config#Backup_and_Restore_concepts.2C_issues_and_other_information

There is no method integrated into sme server that will do a baremetal backup & restore.
Some backup methods come close.
Tape backup backs up all file systems, but does not by default restore them.
You could play around with full tape restores to achieve what you want, but not to an installed sme server, I'd assume to a blank mounted disk may be more successful.
You could also use the dd comand to copy the whole hard disk bit by bit to a mounted drive (slow though).
You could remove a RAID array member ie software RAID1, and that will be a complete backup including contribs. This is a reasonably effective answer, and only requires 5 minutes downtime, but does need someone to do this on site.

Otherwise you need to use some other proprietary method that supports Linux boot partitions & LVM.

[smef@n]

many thanks to all you wonderful people. i think i have gotten a pretty fair understanding of SME domain pertaining to the backup option.

David Harper:
Would you mind explaining the Mirroring option. I can (for once) afford to download the bulk download. As I am having a virtual servers running on ESXi platform, hence I don't see a problem in creating an extra (virtual) server. Please advise how can i get it done.

mercyh:
thanks a lot for the solutions. i appreciate your help.

[David Harper]

Try reading this Howto for Fedora. It will get you started, although it refers to Fedora Core rather than SME Server specifically.

Once you have created the mirror, you would need to redirect SME to use it by editing the yum_repositories database.

[smef@n]

many thanks. will check it out and update the post in case i get stuck.

[shawnbishop]

I mirror all my installs..due to critical data...I run rsync every 60 minutes...