Topic: Why I am not involved in the improvements of this software

[electroman00]

fix yourself before blaming others

Now you may not believe this, but I do have enough respect for your knowledge and experience and your ability

that I suggested to you the opportunity to re-access the post and your response.

No lecture
Nothing religious
Nothing offensive

Simply a suggestion.

Suggestion, re-examine the original post.

Since I believe your an extremely intelligent person, I would surmise that you may see the problem presented in the original
post, thus a possible solution, thus provide everyone with an outstanding solution.

Now I believe you can do it, so go ahead, prove me wrong or right for that matter.

I'm sorry you don't understand me as a person......but realize...... I understand you.

In fact I think I understand you........ better then you understand yourself.

I see that some people so easily place their own values, interpretations and wrongly conceived ideas on other peoples words, and immediately go on the attack,
instead of just reading the text as unemotionally as possible, and answering in a similar fashion.

You gota love the way Mary posts, a posting model for us all to aspire to.

Everyone feel free to hate me as much as you want, but realize, that won't solve the problem within the first post will it.

As much as you may want to blame me, I'm not the problem.

So read the first post as many times as it takes to understand it, once you understand, then and only then will the solution will be at hand.

I assure you, the original poster doesn't have to fix himself and he's not blaming anyone.

He presented what he perceives is a problem, doesn't know exactly what it is or exactly how to present it and only provides possible solutions
to something he doesn't completely understand.

He's HUMAN.

He's "NOT THE ENEMY"

THE "PROBLEM" IS THE ENEMY...!!!

Cactus.....the original poster is the student and he want's to learn.

So I ask you Cactus....do you want to be a good teacher or a bad teacher.

Cactus....you can be the teacher you want to be....

Did I misunderstand something?

I think not....

[arne]

Electroman00 ->

Why not make another new web place for the firewall and security related stuff.

I think I actually could contribute with some stuff.

Do you have a web place or some forum ? (Or should we make one ?)

I think that discussing these subjects on contribs.org can not lead to anything except for more flames.

Why I am not involved in the improvements of this software

A new flameless web page might help.

[electroman00]

arne

I do not want to derail the topic of this thread because I feel it is an extremely important issue.
Feel free to PM/email.

[janet]

Beast & electroman00

The simple title:

Why I am not involved in the improvements of this software ?

The simple answer:

Because you don't want to be.

The more complicated answer.
Read the earlier posts in this thread, and the following.

It's really up to you to get involved and do something.
The tools available are not stopping you from making a valuable contribution.

I can speak from experience, if you show interest to the developers they will show a lot of interest back to you, and be VERY supportive. You will learn stuff from the worlds leading experts on sme, for free.
Tuition that you would/should be paying hundreds of dollars per hour for.

The more willingness you demonstrate to be involved and do something, then the more willing the developers will be to help and guide you in your efforts, not to forget the valuable assistance you will get from others involved with contribs.org etc. As you give, you shall receive.

I have received tremendous support and assistance from the likes of Charlie Brady, Gorden Rowell, and even Shad Lords and Stephen Noble, over the years. Why was this ? Because I got involved and was helping test & troubleshoot & discover bugs etc. I have not been able to be as involved more recently, but still try to do documentation when I see something missing & report & get involved in occasional bug issues, as well as contributing to the forums.

I can choose to stop being involved any time I want, just as I can choose to stay involved.

It's really up to you.

[arne]

Electroman00 ->

There is no contact address to see at all. I think you have set these datas to be anonymous. Can you make it visible ?

.. And I do not think it will help at all to make more discussions. "They" will flame you and attack you while they claim that no one is attacked or flamed in this forum.

This is not important at all.

[electroman00]

electroman00

I'm not sure if you were responding to what I said, or not.

No I simply quoted you, nothing more, nothing less.
I thought it was something of value to understand and was fitting within my post.

The rest of the words in my post did I believe explain to "beast" and others the rationale for what goes on at sme. Keep in mind my post was written after pfloor's (also a Paul) excellent response, so readers should read that first. My post was really an addition to his words.

There was no need to quote that also, should I have?

electroman00, I don't really see any particular specific answers that you are providing to the original poster, so please try to contribute something useful, rather than expecting (and it seems demanding) others to post the answers.

I make no demands or expectations on  anyone, I am simply providing guidance, that is my method of contribution.
Sorry if that's not very obvious to you or it doesn't meet someone's contribution standards.
However believe it or not I have made other contributions you may not be aware of also.
Some of those I have been flamed for also, so all I can say is, you free to join the club if that's your choice.
Flame electoman00 club that is...

I have a hell of a time trying to keeping up with all the attackers at the same time, but I try.

Your time would be much better spent being creative and useful rather than being critical.

And what exactly what was I critical of, you didn't mention.

You certainly have surprised me with this post I must say, I would not have expected this from you.

I quoted your post because I thought it was superb, as well as appropriate to my post.

In fact somewhat ironic as it may be, it's superb here.

I see that some people so easily place their own values, interpretations and wrongly conceived ideas on other peoples words, and immediately go on the attack,
instead of just reading the text as unemotionally as possible, and answering in a similar fashion.

It's alright Mary, I still love 99.99999999% of your posts, no matter what you say to me.

 

[electroman00]

There is no contact address to see at all.

Gee Wiz arne, I didn't know it wasn't visible, I'm sorry.....should be fixed now.
Hey, just don't let it happen again...ok.

[janet]

electroman00

When you quote a person, the comments immediately following appear to be responding to what that person said, please seperate your quotes and unrelated comments more.

....I make no demands or expectations on  anyone, I am simply providing guidance...

Your comments to cactus were demanding, and critical of his answer.
Your use of "not so subtle" reverse psychology is somewhat over done.



You provide no contribution in the form of an answer to "beast", yet you supposedly guide others to do so.
That's not a contribution of any worth from you.

[Normando]

One final word of advice (in five words again): Think in solutions not problems!

I agree with these simple words

edited: typo

[electroman00]

I agree with this simple words

Normando.... your funny dude:)

[cactus]

Now you may not believe this, but I do have enough respect for your knowledge and experience and your ability
I'm sorry you don't understand me as a person......but realize...... I understand you.

In fact I think I understand you........ better then you understand yourself.

Unfortunately I doubt that.

As much as you may want to blame me, I'm not the problem.

And here you state why I think you do not understand me, I reacted the the OP with another solution, which you do not seem to like.

So read the first post as many times as it takes to understand it, once you understand, then and only then will the solution will be at hand.

You are pointing at only one solution, I only raised another one, which is more likely to be implemented and of help. Bugzilla is a big product used in many communities and since development resources of the SME Server development team are severely limited they do not have time to customize the bugzilla system.

I assure you, the original poster doesn't have to fix himself and he's not blaming anyone.

He presented what he perceives is a problem, doesn't know exactly what it is or exactly how to present it and only provides possible solutions
to something he doesn't completely understand.

To which I offered the suggestion to read up on bugzilla, or further pinpoint where he got stuck so we could help the poster overcome the hurdle.

So I ask you Cactus....do you want to be a good teacher or a bad teacher.

Cactus....you can be the teacher you want to be....

I know, search the forums and the wiki.

Did I misunderstand something?

I think not....

I think so, you are only focusing on one solution, where you at the end of your post suggest a good teacher might also help, which is hat I tried to do by guiding OP to the documentation on bugzilla and asking him to further specify the problems with bugzilla (as after all it really is not that hard to create an account,login with it and post a bug, the process is analog to the forums).

[arne]

Well this situation might be a problem:

If I does not remember it incorrectly, according to the statistic 55 % of all SME server installations worldwide is as "server-only". 45 % of the installations is as "server-gateway".

If there is general discussions around the firewall arrangement related to the 55 % percent of all sme server installations, that will not be the sme server gateway, these discussions will normally and or regular basis be flamed or closed.

Is it correct that 55 % of all installations is as "server-only" and is it also correct that most or all treads about how to set up general external firewall arrangements for the 55 % of the installations will be normally stopped ?

Does anybody has an example of a tread where the firewall arrangement between a server-only installation and Internet, 55 % of the installations, has been discussed with some extent, or have they all been flamed and/or closed ?

(How to set up different firewall arrangements, how to set up a dmz, why set up a dmz, how to make firewalling for a wireless zone, etc, etc.)

Am I wrong ? I'm just curious.

[cactus]

Well this situation might be a problem:

If I does not remember it incorrect, according to the statistic 55 % of all SME server installations worldwide is as "server-only". 45 % of the installations is as "server-gateway".

If there is general discussions around the firewall arrangement related to the 55 % percent of all sme server installations, that will not be the sme server gateway, these discussions will normally and or regular basis be flamed or closed.

Is it correct that 55 % of all installations is as "server-only" and is it also correct that most or all treads about how to set up general external firewall arrangements for the 55 % of the installations will be normally stopped ?

Does anybody has an example of a tread where the firewall arrangement between a server-only installation and Internet, 55 % of the installations, has been discussed with some extent, or have they all been flamed and/or closed ?

(How to set up different firewall arrangements, how to set up a dmz, why set up a dmz, how to make firewalling for a wireless zone, etc, etc.)

I’m I wrong ? I'm just curious.

Wrong thread and over simplifying your assumptions. I suggest you open a new thread for this totally different topic.

[arne]

No, not wrong tread.

This should be an example where discussions related to 55 % of the sme server installations is stopped while refering to the 45 % of the installations as the only way of doing it. Admin refer to the 45 % of the installations as the only way to do things, do some flaming, and closes the tread.


http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=42020.0

Of course such behaviour will some times lead to some frustrations.

Is it really true that this big forum doed not contain a single tread with some extent about how to set up internet firewall arrangement for the 55 % of the SME server installations ? Is ther an example ?

[cactus]

No, not wrong tread.

Yes as it does not explain why you do or don't contribute and discussed a whole different matter than the topic.

and closes the tread.

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=42020.0

Now read the last post from the thread you posted again and there is your explantion why it is closed, not because of it being an undesired topic, but because of not sticking to the general rules of the forum and not being on topic.

This kind of behavior as well as steering away from the original topic as you initiated will lead to closure of threads, which IMHO is more than warranted for this one if you continue this line of conversation here as it has nothing to do with the topic of stating reasons of not contributing to SME Server.