Topic: [Solved] How do you configure a Workstation Backup?

[mercyh]

By "does work", do you mean it reproduced the error?

I do NOT mean that it reproduces the error. As I stated before I have been unable to reproduce the exact errror you describe.

By "does work" I mean that backups run successfully. I am trying to get you to setup a backup job with the least possible things that can go wrong. (such as share in a location that cannot be accessed by user, password that CIFS cannot use to mount the share with, etc.)

If you wish to see how the user in the other thread fixed his problem, you can copy the responses and then past them into google translator and translate them from French to English.

[LANMonkey]

I followed the TEST procedure exactly as prescribed and it worked.  I got my first backup.

Here is the procedure again,

1. Create a new share that is a folder on C:\ on the windows machine, lets call it backup. You would now have a folder that looks like this C:\backup.

2. Share the folder with Windows file sharing tab with the share name of backup click the allow network user to change my files box.

3. Create a new administrative user in windows with the user name of backup and a password of backup1

4. Set the SME backup routine to point to the new share and use the backup user name and the password of backup1

5. Pour a little Snake Oil on the top of the server and massage gently  .  Not necessary.

6. Set a backup to run in 5 3 minutes and see what happens.

Now, the question remains.  Why do my other users not see a directory?

There are some strange things I have observed.  When I created this new share in the test procedure, I looked in My Network Places and the folder showed up with a little bar underneath it indicating it -- I guess -- it was a network share.  None of the other shares I created had the bar.  And some of the other shares that had been created previous did have the bar on them at first, but later the bar disappeared and they showed up as regular folders.

I think it is pretty clear that the problem is in Windows and SME Server is completely innocent.  But it remains that if people are going to make use of the Workstation Backup, some documentation is going to have to provided that successfully guides people to some correct setup for them to perform on the Windows machine and, maybe, not just a client machine like Vista or XP, but also the new MS gizmo Windows Home Server.  This is really where I want to backup my SME Server.

[mercyh]

Ok, Now you start figuring out what needs to be done to make it work the way you want.

Your current setup is not secure. Simple file sharing allows access to the share with no password. If you get a virus running wild on your LAN it can spread through this share. I think that at this point you could put "user" for the user and "password" for the password in the server backup configuration and it would work (Simple file sharing does not actually require a valid login name.)

The next step I would try is to turn off simple file sharing and reboot the windows machine. If this is just a test server I would also reboot it to break any residual mount points. Leave the backup user on the windows machine and see if the backup will work.

[mercyh]

Where were your original shares located in the file structure on the windows machine?

[LANMonkey]

...

The next step I would try is to turn off simple file sharing and reboot the windows machine. If this is just a test server I would also reboot it to break any residual mount points. Leave the backup user on the windows machine and see if the backup will work.

I did this and the backup continues to work.  I also tried logging in to the test user which creates files that aren't there until the user logs in and the backup continued to work then too.

Where were your original shares located in the file structure on the windows machine?

That's another thing that was different.  The other user shares were all in user directories.

[LANMonkey]

I tried the backup again with my other shares and now they work too.  And they all show up as folders with the little bar below in My Network Places too.  Maybe a reboot was all that was needed. 

[mercyh]

Would you be ready to write a howto on what you think would work consistantly?

Some points I would make.

1. Create the backup share at or near the root of the drive on the windows machine. Use a short filename with no spaces. Use a short share name with no spaces.

2. Configure a user with admin rights for the backup user name and password.

(I think some testing is need to determine how complicated this password can be)

[LANMonkey]

Yes, I'd be happy to write a HowTo on this.  I'll go through the permutations and especially with Windows Home Server, which I think is a natural companion to SME server.  But only because SME Server is free.  Windows Home Server is just cheap at about $160 retail and I got mine on eBay for about $120 shipping included.  It will take a couple of days at the very least.

[mercyh]

You can either request Wiki Access so you can do it yourself or you can PM me with the documentation once you have it complete and I can add it to the wiki.

For Wiki access go here: http://wiki.contribs.org/Help:Contents

PM:   rh at mercyh dot org

[dgs]

Some points I would make.

1. Create the backup share at or near the root of the drive on the windows machine. Use a short filename with no spaces. Use a short share name with no spaces.

2. Configure a user with admin rights for the backup user name and password.

(I think some testing is need to determine how complicated this password can be)

Your observations are very much in line with observations already reported in bugzilla, Workstation backup is easily upset by anything other than simple alpha strings.  http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4850

I'll go through the permutations and especially with Windows Home Server, which I think is a natural companion to SME server.  But only because SME Server is free.

Why? I'm sorry but I don't see the advantages of WHS over any number of competent CIFS appliances. WHS is, as would be expected, structured very much in the Microsoft way, it is not designed to play nice with anything other than Windows workstations. There is lots of duplication of functionality with SME server, and no particular advantages in integration.

I am not panning WHS, it has a place, but I do not believe that place is in cohorts with an SME box or boxes.

[mercyh]

I looked at the bug you reference back in the beginning of this thread. I guess I am interested in approaching this in a HowTo or FAQ manner at this point. I would say it is outside the scope of SME development to fix limitations in CIFS. I personally always have to grapple with this the first time I setup a new server/backup share.

I personally have no interest in Windows Home Server, however I think that if we can get some setup ironed out that consistantly works with windows it may be helpful.

It may be useful to know that any backup share should be "simply" named and located not far from the drive root. It might also be helpful to know just how much access the backup user needs to have and how simple the password needs to be. After working with linux for a bit I have moved away from the "Make every user an Administrator so at least things will work" mentality of the windows world.

[dgs]

I looked at the bug you reference back in the beginning of this thread. I guess I am interested in approaching this in a HowTo or FAQ manner at this point. I would say it is outside the scope of SME development to fix limitations in CIFS. I personally always have to grapple with this the first time I setup a new server/backup share.

I agree it is probably outside the scope of SME as the problem lies within software developed elsewhere. I had suggested some modifications to the Wiki at the time which were immediately added.  (thanks Cactus for the help there) I guess some collective efforts and testing could help us provide help for others from within the documentation.

It may be useful to know that any backup share should be "simply" named and located not far from the drive root. It might also be helpful to know just how much access the backup user needs to have and how simple the password needs to be. After working with linux for a bit I have moved away from the "Make every user an Administrator so at least things will work" mentality of the windows world.

I agree with what you are saying. I guess in the wash up it comes back to all of us to contribute well written instructions and reports of the many gotchas we find along the way and to contribute to both bugzilla and the Wiki documentation.

[mercyh]

dgs,

can you post a link in this thread to the wiki location you are speaking about? If you have some backup instructions in there somewhere that you have been working on I would be interested in seeing it and possibly adding in the same location.

[dgs]

dgs,

can you post a link in this thread to the wiki location you are speaking about? If you have some backup instructions in there somewhere that you have been working on I would be interested in seeing it and possibly adding in the same location.

http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Administration_Manual:Chapter10
Although I believe you have already read this. My initial problems / experiences all led to issues with using complex passwords the same as those I routinely use within SME. Upon further testing etc it appears the share name and path are equally sensitive and should be kept to simple ASCII names. I will try to update my notes to a readable (by others) form and submit these for addition to the documentation.

[mercyh]

Thanks for the link.

Yes I have read the manual through (And more than twice  ). However, either that has been added since the last time I read it or I kind of ignored it as I was using DAR2 at the time.

I really think that what we are dealing with here does not come under the scope of the manual. I am wondering if it wouldn't be best to do a HowTo under something like "configure windows share for Workstation backup" and link it in the Tip box about CIFS.

Anybody have any input?