Koozali.org: home of the SME Server

Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS

guest22

Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« on: June 14, 2013, 03:51:16 AM »
As per the announcement here: http://lists.contribs.org/pipermail/discussion/2013-June/000986.html

contribs.org will 'move' to a new data center that will host 'us' for free!, which is great! However, this data center seems to be ClearCenter, related/ownedby ClearOS.

In that respect I would like to understand the relation between ClearOS, previous hidden (failed) (individual) attempts to 'merge' SME Server with ClearOS and what agreement there is between ClearOS and SME Server for Clearcenter to host contribs.org.

It is obvious that the ClearOS team (and hidden communications with SME Server related persons) foresees a benefit in 'hosting' complete contribs.org. But again, no logs of any formal communications or arrangements.

I could not find any mail or post about the considerations and by whom they could have been made. It just popped up and it seems that the (Koozali) board is simply accepting the move without any understanding any without any consideration by who?

Where can I find the considerations by the Koozali board, or any considerations on rationale at all please?

Offline ReetP

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 02:24:04 PM »
There is absolutely no attempt whatsoever to merge with anyone. Hence there has been no discussion of such a topic.


Shad was offered free use of the space which will reduce his personal costs which, as you know, are not covers by donations. USD 5000 p.a. doesn't touch it and without Shads generosity we would have ceased to exist a long time ago.


Until such time as Koozali SME can cover its own operating costs then we don't have many choices

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline gzartman

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
I can verify as well that there are no communications what so ever going on with ClearCenter.   

At one point, a few years ago, we talked about possibly merging SME and ClearOS, but the discussion didn't go very far. 

I will echo everything that John stated.  The arrangement between Shad and the ClearCenter datacenter is between Shad and ClearCenter.  Koozali/SME is not a party to this arrangement.  Shad provides hosting to more projects/people/businesses than just SME Server.  I suspect this is a good move for him personally, and none of our business really.  Shad assures us nothing will change from the standpoint of what he has been offering the community, so there really is nothing more to discuss on the matter.

There is NOTHING secret afoot.   Clear Center IS NOT hosting Contribs.org.  Shad's server farm is on a private network behind his router/firewall and totally under his control.  HSF, needs to stop the rumor mill.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 09:33:24 PM by gzartman »
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Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.

guest22

Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 02:42:59 AM »
1. In my book asking questions does not match the 'rumor mill' in your book.
2. Apparently this topic has struck a nerve somewhere for both the Koozali chairman and the treasurer felt they needed to respond and back each other up.
3. I could not care less about Shad's personal stuff. I was asking about the data and the availability of it to the community
4. The 'we talked about possibly merging SME and ClearOS'. Is this 'we' the Koozali board or who? The attempt to try this by itself was not discussed with the community at all. Who was 'we' at the time and with what mandate and from who?
5. The arrangement, on moving contribs.org and contents, between Shad and the Clear Center is *NOT* his to make. The way you step away from this and point your finger at Shad is *exactly* why I am not on board. The Boards should have protected the contribs.org assets to the fullest!. Not even an attempt has been made/registered to secure this.
6. An individual's assurance (Shad never told the community he assures this) whilst there is a board that needs to take full responsibility are 2 different worlds. A non argument and complete lack of responsibility!
7. It is the responsibility of the Koozali board to provide assurances, not individuals, let alone the board pointing to individuals.
8. Clear Center *IS* hosting contribs.org ( http://myip.ms/info/whois/209.90.117.203 ) and the complete contribs.org environment. Please provide prove of me being wrong instead of just saying 'no'.
9. Shad's server farm is his property. Why do you not acknowledge that contribs.org is not under the control of the koozali board, and that it is hosted at Clear Center and that all considerations to host it there are not public?
10. You should take a more professional community minded attitude, instead of being stung by a bee every time.

guest

ps. Banning me from the board list is a proper thing to do since I resigned. But posting messages about me without me being able to respond is childish.

ps. 2. Where is the progress? I can read that a first conf call is being planned for the end of June 2013? and that this call is being used to get to know Google products?

Offline janet

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 03:42:58 AM »
RequestedDeletion

I think you have been making unfounded claims that cannot be substantiated, & that approach is what triggered responses from both the chairman and the treasurer, so that others (including yourself) are made very clear about the status of your claims, ie that they are bogus.

The orginal notice said
"Shad, who currently hosts the farm, has been offered free rack space for
his equipment at a data center."
What does it matter where the data center is or who ultimately owns it, there is certainly no need for you to jump to the conclusion that their is a conspiracy going on.
As I understand it, having read elsewhere about Shad's involvement in other technical matters etc, Shad is involved with ClearOS, what's wrong with that, I have involvement in many other things than just sme server too, like all of us I assume. It does not make me a traitor to the sme server cause.

In my opinion, you are exhibiting paranoid tendencies, & this is something that long term readers of these forums will have seen before.
You were somewhat antagonistic many years ago when the original contribs.org site was setup & there was some discontent about the management style of the site "owner".
I'm sure you recall this.
IIRC you were involved with maintaining & developing the web site "system" behind the scenes.
Eventually if I recall correctly, you left the organisation after purportedly taking data that you were not really authorised to take, for the reasons of setting up your own independent site.
The response, IIRC, was that there was no agreement signed or made that said you could not take it, so you felt you did no wrong. Others disagreed.

Perhaps you saw it as data duplication, but others saw it quite differently & there was a big parting of ways between people.

So this theme of wanting access to the "data" is something that is striking a nerve in your own persona.

In all organisations, there needs to be a sense of comradeship, co-operation, trust & a desire for all parties involved to work together to achieve the same goal.
Typically a "middle of the road" conservative approach is often adopted by boards or management, to cater for all interested parties different attitudes or desires etc

I am not privy to information about your recent involvement in the "board", but clearly your opinions or management style was not a middle of the road approach & you resigned due to friction between yourself & others.

You cannot just make wild claims that in effect suggest that a "conspiracy" or similar is going on, & then publicy start claiming that. You only undo your own credibility.
Perhaps you are a person who is not a good team player & cannot be involved in the joint decision making processes where the decision made does not always agree with your approach.
Perhaps you function better as a "one man band".

Hsing, I have followed your involvement with sme server over many many years, I've been here since year 2000 & v3.0, & read virtually every word that has ever been published, & I believe I have a very good memory.
You clearly have something to contribute, & have some good technical skills etc, but I do feel you have to drop this attitude that others are doing things secretively & for suspicious reasons that have other hidden motives, & that sort of "style of reasoning". The community values your input, but you must temper your approach to fit in with the norm & stop attacking people for unjustifiable reasons.

In modern day popular language usage, Hsing please drop the "attitude".

I do not mean to offend you personally, but I do mean to encourage you positively in your endeavours, & in your involvement with the Koozali SME server community.

Quote
1. In my book asking questions does not match the 'rumor mill' in your book.
2. Apparently this topic has struck a nerve somewhere for both the Koozali chairman and the treasurer felt they needed to respond and back each other up.
3. I could not care less about Shad's personal stuff. I was asking about the data and the availability of it to the community
4. The 'we talked about possibly merging SME and ClearOS'. Is this 'we' the Koozali board or who? The attempt to try this by itself was not discussed with the community at all. Who was 'we' at the time and with what mandate and from who?
5. The arrangement, on moving contribs.org and contents, between Shad and the Clear Center is *NOT* his to make. The way you step away from this and point your finger at Shad is *exactly* why I am not on board. The Boards should have protected the contribs.org assets to the fullest!. Not even an attempt has been made/registered to secure this.
6. An individual's assurance (Shad never told the community he assures this) whilst there is a board that needs to take full responsibility are 2 different worlds. A non argument and complete lack of responsibility!
7. It is the responsibility of the Koozali board to provide assurances, not individuals, let alone the board pointing to individuals.
8. Clear Center *IS* hosting contribs.org ( http://myip.ms/info/whois/209.90.117.203 ) and the complete contribs.org environment. Please provide prove of me being wrong instead of just saying 'no'.
9. Shad's server farm is his property. Why do you not acknowledge that contribs.org is not under the control of the koozali board, and that it is hosted at Clear Center and that all considerations to host it there are not public?
10. You should take a more professional community minded attitude, instead of being stung by a bee every time.

guest

ps. Banning me from the board list is a proper thing to do since I resigned. But posting messages about me without me being able to respond is childish.

ps. 2. Where is the progress? I can read that a first conf call is being planned for the end of June 2013? and that this call is being used to get to know Google products?
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
The Search & other links to useful information are at top of Forum.

Offline ReetP

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 12:17:53 PM »
HSF,

My reply was in reply to your unfounded allegations to make sure that false rumours did not go unanswered. The only 'nerve' that it struck was seeing you alleging things that were just not true.

Did you expect us to just ignore them and let them spread ? Who else do you expect to answer them ?

You refer to 'data' being available. All of the SME code is available. No one is keeping anything under lock and key.

Your reference to a possible merge between SME and Clear was, as you well know, something that was discussed and discounted years ago. It was years before the present Board was incorporated, nothing to do with the current Board, and nothing has ever been discussed since. I do not understand why you bring this up as it has no relevance today.

I'll state it quite clearly for you once again. There are NO talks of ANY merger with ANYONE. End of discussion.

The question of who does the hardware belong to, and where it is kept, is moot. Quite simply the Foundation does not have the funds to have its own equipment - again, you know this so why you bring it up I have no idea. The reasons for why this happened are in the distant past. We cannot change what happened before. We can only take what we have and move forward. Moaning and complaining and won't change anything. Hard work and more money may.

Current income is minimal and we have a shortfall of USD 25,000 or more a year. We rely on Shads charity to run. If you, or anyone else, can magic up a pile of cash we would have other choices, but currently we don't. Until such time as we can increase our income, we cannot change this, like it or not. If you want to see this changed, please stop complaining and go and raise some money.

You were not 'banned' from the board list. You were removed from it when you resigned. You can still view any discussions via the archives (as you obviously do).

Since your departure we have had to co-opt another member and are currently trying to finalise further paperwork that we need to function. We are also trying to arrange a meeting but with 9 people spread globally and all busy with jobs that put food on the table, this is not always very easy.

We have been using Google as a collaborative tool because it is there, and Tony Keane kindly offered to fund this for Koozali from his own pocket for a year (because the Foundation doesn't have the funds to pay for it itself). It may not be everyones choice, but for the time being it has the tools we need to do the job. Hopefully in time we will be able to host it ourselves. But none of us have sufficient time to try and build a similar system on our current hardware. We had hoped to have had a full meeting before now, but it has just not been possible. Some of us are still learning how to use some of the tools. A couple of members had never ever used any Google services, so we are all trying to get to grips with that.

We are trying to put in place some foundations that enables both the current, and future board, to work together. We need an organisation that is built on rock and not sand. Progress may not be as fast as you may like, but unfortunately, that's life. We have to cut our cloth according to circumstance.

Before you go banging on ad nauseum about the Board, who is responsible for what etc., please let me remind you (though why I should have to as you know this only too well) that the Board was inaugurated to manage the finances and give an air of respectability and stability. It is not there to make every decision. We would be only too happy to see members of the community jump in, take the lead and get more involved in things. No one is stopping you or anyone else working on code or raising funds, or any other work that think should be done around here. And there is plenty of it.

You say that :
10. You should take a more professional community minded attitude, instead of being stung by a bee every time.

Sorry, but your sniping and rumour mongering are not IMHO 'professionally minded'. They are their to try and stir up trouble and problems for your own personal agenda.

As mentioned by Janet, you are an intelligent man with a huge amount of knowledge and experience which is highly valued. But please, use it in a positive fashion rather than trying to destroy the work that we are doing. It doesn't help anyone. It destroys the very system you say you love so much.

I can only assure you that the Board are trying as hard as we can to do the best that we can for the distro we all love.

We want it to continue to be independent. We need it to be financially sound and completely self funded. Please support us in that.

B. Rgds
John
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline gzartman

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 07:56:34 PM »
1. In my book asking questions does not match the 'rumor mill' in your book.
2. Apparently this topic has struck a nerve somewhere for both the Koozali chairman and the treasurer felt they needed to respond and back each other up.

It did struck a nerve with me because you make a habit of stirring up trouble and controversy.  You caused enough trouble during your short term as a board member.  I wanted to nip it in the bud before you caused any more problems.

3. I could not care less about Shad's personal stuff. I was asking about the data and the availability of it to the community
4. The 'we talked about possibly merging SME and ClearOS'. Is this 'we' the Koozali board or who? The attempt to try this by itself was not discussed with the community at all. Who was 'we' at the time and with what mandate and from who?

Yet more attempts to cause problems HSF, where there isn't any.  Shad was offered rack space and connection to the ClearCenter WAN because he does some work for them.  Shad donates space on his server farm to the SME community because the community can't afford to pay for it elsewhere.  Simple as that. 

Does it really matter who talked about merging with ClearOS 2-3 years ago?

5. The arrangement, on moving contribs.org and contents, between Shad and the Clear Center is *NOT* his to make. The way you step away from this and point your finger at Shad is *exactly* why I am not on board. The Boards should have protected the contribs.org assets to the fullest!. Not even an attempt has been made/registered to secure this.

It is the boards to make and the decision has been made, so get over it.   

ps. Banning me from the board list is a proper thing to do since I resigned. But posting messages about me without me being able to respond is childish.

Several us of wanted to kick you off the board, but you resigned, saving us the trouble of going through the  process of getting rid of you.  Your repeated rants and attacks on other members of the board was so over the top and unprofessional, it is unbelievable.  Now you seem to be taking your ranting on the forums.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 09:48:24 PM by gzartman »
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Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.

guest22

Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 12:04:20 AM »
Dear Janet,

I never spoken with youbefore, yet you seem to know all the answers and have in depth knowledge about the 'behind the scenes'. Good for you girl!

I would want to ask both to you and John what 'unfounded accusations'  I made please, for when I read it all back, I clearly ask questions and refer to facts and real events. And asking questions may cause trouble to *some*, but asking question by itself is not trouble, unless it is inconvenient for the one who replies with that statement.

It could well be that my questions are so disturbing that some would try to make me look bad.

So let's cut it short...

I've heard that there are parties that want to fork e-smith. I've also understood that these multiple parties would like to request a copy of the wiki and the forums. Since the forums and wiki contents are GNU Free licensed, can you please provide a full copy or how to obtain these please?

guest



guest22

Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 12:17:00 AM »
Greg,

your comments show *exactly* why I do not wish to be on 'the board',and why I've asked you to be professional since you *are* on a board and as an executive too.

Which hat is it that you wear, personal vendetta or as a board member? How come you speak so badly about me please?

You have been involved with e-smith/SME Server for over a decade and never stood up and made something happend. Why try to prove your self esteem now?

guest



guest22

Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 12:19:27 AM »
Anyway, the community is looking forward for a transcript of the very first 'board meeting'. Well done, it only tok 2 months to get a simple conf call organised.

I'm sure all want progression and a healthy future, but I wonder why you guys spend so much energy on me whilst you could have done so many other things.

Offline idp_qbn

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 02:07:07 AM »
I am part of the community and I am NOT looking forward to a transcript - I am letting them get on with making SME9.

I am not interested in personalities or politics here. I come to these forums for advice, and sometimes, in a limited way, to give advice ABOUT THE WORKINGS OF SME (not the committee, working parties, the board or other members).

Ian
___________________
Sydney, NSW, Australia

Offline daveloper

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 02:44:05 AM »
Greetings everyone.

In understand there is a little kerfuffle concerning the recent procurement of the equipment which contribs.org is running on. ClearCenter has recently acquired the equipment that Shad has heavily invested (of his own money). This equipment is very expensive and is the reason why Contribs.org can handle the traffic that it does.

Personally, I've visited Contribs.org long before ever hearing of SME, ClearOS, or Clarkconnect. Why? because this site, like the old Clarkconnect site is chalk full of information about open source. Searching Google for answers to questions when I was using RHEL or CentOS would often take me to these sites in my quest to resolve issues. How many of us have found answers on sites like ubuntu.com or fedoraproject.org? That is the beauty of Open Source ... the open community. It was one of the topics I discussed at length with Charlie and Bridget in 2009 at Linuxcon.

This is the reason why we started ClearFoundation. So that any open source can find a home. We are not out to steal anything because there is nothing to 'steal'. However, we have taken great pains to protect Open Source from closed-source threats. ClearFoundation was established to protect the Open Source like ClearOS, suvad, l7-filter and others. Some of these you may have read about and ClearFoundation has been intrinsically and substantively connected to these developments:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/05/09/0441215/new-zealand-set-to-prohibit-software-patents
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/minister-supports-nz-software-innovation

Shad has used his equipment to build the source code of SME, ClearCenter, L7-filter, suva, and ClearOS for a good long while. In fact, both are built under the same build system. All of this very expensive equipment was being stored in his house. ClearCenter purchased the equipment because it was a business risk to them to have this build process housed in a residential facility on equipment that was subject whatever liens or judgements that potentially could be ordered on Shad (an individual). When we moved it to the data center we literally spent hours dusting out the equipment. The facility we moved it to is located at the Fibernet colocation facility (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1145+South+800+East,+Orem,+UT&hl=en&sll=39.499761,-111.547028&sspn=5.44213,9.667969&oq=1145+&hnear=1145+S+800+E,+Orem,+Utah+84097&t=m&z=16). Between the maintenance cycle and the hosting, this hardware, ping, power and pipe solution which services contribs.org and ClearFoundation costs several thousand dollars a month. Of which ClearCenter foots the lion share of the bill.

The data center is SAS70, PCI, and HIPAA compliant. Moreover it follows best practices in security and stability design. You can read more about it here: http://www.fiber.net/utah-colocation.php. Why Utah?

  • The Fibernet facility straddles 2 completely independent power grids (Rocky Mountain Power, Provo Power).
  • As part of the initial DARPA net project, Utah is intrinsically connected between the East and West Coast of the US.
  • Utah enjoys one of the most stable US economies and is consistently one of the best run states.
  • The equipment for contribs.org was already here and configured.

We apologize for making this move without the input of the Contribs.org community. In hindsight, RequestedDeletion, it would have been better to give the option to the contribs.org community to find another home or acquiesce to leaving things on the same equipment.

I've heard it stated that ClearOS is 'out to steal' the contrib ideas. Believe me, when you guys have a great idea I fully expect to take it. As you should from us as well. Isn't that the point of open source? If there are any closed-source aspects to what you are doing or if you have any non-open source items that you need to protect, please let us know. I will get them to you in a 'chain-of-evidence' manner using Shad as the trusted courier. It was our understanding that the contribs given to Contribs.org were GPL or similar. If that is the case, rest assured that anything we do use from SME or Contribs will be properly attributed. That being said, let me assure you that this goes both ways. I remember a while back Shad came to me with a problem that SME server was having with its Samba server stack. I explained what was going on and he fixed it. Another time, we got an early heads up on a 0-day in the CIFS protocol stack from the Samba team (with which we have close ties). Rest assured that this 0-day was also fixed in SME because Shad builds both!

Now, down to the details. Yes, Contribs.org is running on equipment that is owned by ClearCenter. No, ClearCenter has no access to the running Contribs.org VMs nor do we have even have rights to the management server where that is running on. We have access to the VPN network (but we've had access to that network for a long time as our stuff was at Shad's house as well) and we have access to the build server (but we have had access to that for a long time now as well.) Eventually ClearCenter will have access to the management server but we are holding off for now in respect to Contribs.org. Currently, Shad is the only one with all the keys to the kingdom and this is a huge risk for us...and for you all as well I might add. We seek to rectify this.

In the spirit of openness, I welcome a discussion with anyone with personal concerns, either here on this post or email me at dloper@clearfoundation.com. Contribs is welcome to our time, our talents, and (quite literally) our money as it continues to grow and progress. Shad loves SME and we love Shad. That is reason enough for us to help. I'm sorry that some perceive the world as opportunistic and agenda driven. It has been my experience that people see the world through their own lens.

-Dave Loper
President
ClearFoundation

www.clearfoundation.com

Offline daveloper

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 04:42:02 AM »
As I am re-reading, there are some direct points that I've not addressed from ClearFoundation's perspective and need to be said to provide clarity.

1) ClearCenter has acquired Shad's equipment. That agreement was reached today (Jun 21, 2013) but no aspect of ClearCenter is running on Shad's equipment. 100% of the equipment in the rack was Shad's up until this day. 0% of ClearFoundation or ClearCenter equipment was located in that rack until this day (excluding the parts that were already there when it was located at his house). For all of last week, the only aspect of ClearCenter that was associated with Contribs.org was the IP addresses. Shad had free rack space ala ClearCenter and ClearFoundation, and even though that equipment now belongs to ClearCenter, he still has free rack space. Do with it what you will. DISCLOSURE: ClearCenter and ClearFoundation are separate companies/organizations.

2) ClearCenter will be putting resources in parallel on this equipment in the future (as well as increasing capacity over the long run). However, the gate-keepers of the access are Shad and myself (Shad being the primary admin, and me being the guy that ends up being woken up at 3AM if there is an outage!). Others in the SME community may have rights to the SME servers, I don't know anything about who or what...that's your process not mine. And others (at ClearCenter and Fibernet) have access to the hardware (that started today) but Shad and I are the only ones that have access to both and I'm not logging into Contribs server out of respect for your community and the trust levels that you need to achieve (but more importantly, I don't log into them because everything of real value to me in the SME community is found on these forums and in the mirrors).

3) The talk of 'merging' SME and ClearOS took place years ago at the 2009 Linuxcon Convention. This was an open discussion between Michael Proper (CEO of ClearCenter), myself (President of ClearFoundation), Charlie Brady, Bridget (sp?), and John H. Terpstra (Samba Team). We were introduced to Charlie by John and discussed the possibility. It was an open discussion on fragmentation vs. consolidation as opposed to one of acquisition (this is open source we are talking about after all). It is still a worthy topic but is only really relevant under a huge eco-system of participation from both communities. Charlie introduced us to Shad later (which is funny because we only live 25 miles from each other). Shad saw the possibility of furthering open source. That is his passion. Like Linus himself, he doesn't care who the 'winners' are or anything to do with politics and those that insist on them. Only that things move forward.

4) As I stated earlier, Shad is still the gate-keeper of the data and its access. If your community has any closed-source bits, please let us know so that we can certify that they are removed before Shad grants me access to the management server. I have no need to access root on contribs.org except if requested by the board.

5) As someone who is passionate about open source and making sure people get the access and the credit they deserve I want to make sure that you have all the access to the data that you need. If you see something that is missing, let me know. I'll help where I can. If there is a perception that the data is now being hidden, please show me where the discrepancy is.

6) I'm sorry that RequestedDeletion has a level of distrust for Shad. If this distrust is a endemic of the contribs community, perhaps segregation should be considered (which is funny because we've been running on the same build system for a long, long time now). From my perspective, Shad has done nothing but give to the Contribs community. I'm pretty sure this is the case because of the way he also gives to the ClearFoundation community and all the other open source projects to which he is involved. If this is wrong, please let me know and we can expedite any process deemed by the board to assuage any fears or concerns about whatever secret code or intellectual property needs to be protected.

7) That IP address mentioned is designated to ClearCenter by the hosting provider Fiber.net. ClearFoundation is also on this block but I don't complain that it says ClearCenter   :grin:. If you need to have that reverse to 'contribs.org' I can see what can be done about that with Fiber.net. It is their IP. Fiber.net is hosting the power and pipe. ClearCenter is hosting the ping, ClearFoundation/Contribs is hosting the voluntary maintenance of the hardware and VM resources and Shad is the admin of those servers. Is the complaint then that Shad isn't paying for the costs associated with Contribs.org now and Fiber.net/ClearCenter/ClearFoundation is?

8) If the board feels that this arrangement is untoward, they are welcome to develop an exit strategy. I'm not going on the contrib servers unless invited. It serves no purpose for me. I suppose some of them have access to them now and they can look at the logs. They will never find anything out of bounds because I'm a white hat and I don't care about 'your' data (only that you can get to it).

9) Shad's servers are his property. He has sold them. If ClearCenter were Oracle, they'd have just taken them offline because this 'risk' of hosting your data has no upside for them or ClearFoundation. I realize that there are many in your community who recognize an olive branch when they see one and don't look a gift horse in the mouth. But others are skeptical. Please note that we aren't conquerors nor are we destroyers. We are builders and we recognize the beauty of SME server and all that Charlie, Shad and SO many others have done. You can move your work of art out of our gallery any time you want. Admission is free and it remains yours to do with what you desire. If contribs.org was anything more than an open source project, believe me, ClearFoundation would have refused Shad's petition to keep it running and ClearCenter would NOT have purchased an encumbered asset. I hope everyone in the SME community (and the ClearFoundation community for that matter) was more like Shad and Charlie. Of all the people in the SME community that I've ever met in person, I've gotten along with 100% of them. It seems to me that those causing strife are outliers. I'm sorry for the rift this seems to be causing in your community, let us know what we can do to help.

Offline stephdl

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 11:43:15 AM »
I speak with my personal opinion about the move to clearcenter/clearfoundation and the hosting to this new datacenter....the board way will probably come later by his president.

Personally I dont see any problems to be hosted by another organisation as clearcenter, obviously if the works can be done with separate VM like it is done since few years. Moreover it is like this the debian project works, i do not know about personal farm of server, they work with universities or enterprises.
I can add to this that an enterprise as Clearcenter and a foundation as Clearfoundation, they can not be assimilated to Oracle or even other bad societies.

Therefore i understand and i can add i'm happy  to hear that computers are owned by you. Of course if another company wants to fork the project and offers freely his farm, his bandwidth, his skill, i will accept probably immediately :p

Now  i'm tired about this waste of time, effectively that the board could go faster but i'm involved in the smecontribs bugzilla, and we are only two on the entire earth to play with the contribs, I have started to translate the documentation to French, i don't see too much bugs or progress on SME V9.

So one thing sure, everybody takes a portion of the success or the failure of the adventure of this lovely distro, no matter what he did in the past.

It is what he does Now which is important.

HSF I didn't read this topic before the post of dave Loper, if you want to talk, i'm on IRC.....Please no more kindly words between you and the board.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 12:20:03 PM by stephdl »
See http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation
irc : Freenode #sme_server #sme-fr

!!! Please write your knowledge to the Wiki !!!

Offline wellsi

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Re: Move to ClearCenter/ClearOS
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2013, 01:25:35 PM »
Now  i'm tired about this waste of time, effectively that the board could go faster but i'm involved in the smecontribs bugzilla, and we are only two on the entire earth to play with the contribs, I have started to translate the documentation to French, i don't see too much bugs or progress on SME V9.

The work on the contribs is outstanding, I encourage more people to join that effort, and prepare to do the same for SME 9.

On SME 9 itself, it is ready for beta apart from the installer issue so it is true that progress has slowed whilst tackling that tough issue. however I would say that there has been progress on bugs, both SME 8 and SME 9. Once I return from my current trip I'll release another set of updates as the queue has built up again. For those interested the number of open bugs has been trending down.

On the original topic, my only comment would be that I wish effort would go into development/test/documentation rather than politics.
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