Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Legacy Forums => Experienced User Forum => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 25, 2003, 04:17:39 PM
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I was just wondering why people are so rude on these forums? I see that when someone posts something that has already been asked yonks ago, people reply with shuch stupid and rude messages that say to search the forums before posting. I think that if you feel like this when you read a message that has already been answered, why bother even replying for the sake of being rude?
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I was just wondering why pople are posting anonymously on these forums?
;-)
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People don't mean to be rude, they are very busy. You have to understand that this forum is for Experience User.
It is true that you must search the Forum before posting anything. If you have search for a few hours without anyresults then you should explain what you have searched for and then maybe someone will be able to help.
You can also print the Techncian manual and the administrator manual. You will find plenty of useful information. Be patient and search.
There is always people willing to help.
Peter
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Oh Yes, There are always people willing to help. It's just that you get told off for cross postings or asking a question that may have been answered before, if people are so busy, why reply to peoples posts with such stupid relies?
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Anonymous wrote:
>
> Oh Yes, There are always people willing to help. It's just
> that you get told off for cross postings or asking a question
> that may have been answered before, if people are so busy,
> why reply to peoples posts with such stupid relies?
Ever heard the line "Give a person a fish, feed them once. Teach a person to fish, feed them forever."? Same applies here, may be easier to ask for the answer, but if you can learn to search you can answer many things yourself.
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A simple search of the forums for "rude" with "all dates" selected turns up many results. This being only one of them:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=15883.msg61312#msg61312
Of course if you had bothered to search before posting your question you would already know this! ;¬)
But seriously, people here help each other for thier own and other's benefit. Often when people suggest searching they will have already gone and found the answer and posted the solution in thier reply. Sometimes it's just knowing what to search for.
Hope this helps! ;¬)
NTB
Don't feed the trolls....
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See Anonymous,
People care and are willing to help. Keep posting and you will get answer. It's not always easy but try to search before and post where you search and did not find anything.
Sometimes you will get a rud answer but the same person will do a search and if he's having some times he will answer later.
I think that this Forum is very helpfull but read the manuals and lots of questions will be answer.
Have a nice day Anonymous
P.S. You should always leave your name it is more polite.
Peter Side
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This forum is quite polite in my experience. Try comparing with:
http://perl.plover.com/Questions4.html
or perhaps see how to ask questions of the qmail gurus:
http://www.qcc.ca/~charlesc/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
You might get one of these answers:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail&m=106138057609681&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail&m=98872766809046&w=2
In fact the entire thread is illuminating. :-)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=98872762900001&r=2&w=2
Cheers,
Jens
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"Anonymous", I hope you don't consider this rude, but I think what is the most egregious offense of all is to:
1) Post without searching
2) Want a quick-fix spoon-feeding
3) Lack of desire to find the answer yourself.
I think every single member of this forum is more than willing to help someone though a problem, however, you would be astounded at how old it gets answering the same question over and over because someone lacks the initiative to find the answer using the tools readily available on this site. Many users here strive to assist other users is resolving problems, and nothing is more frustrating than having ones time wasted hand-holding someone completely unwilling to use the tools here to apply a solution.
I think you have the rudeness transposed, you see, people who post without searching the forums for the answer are those who are being rude (not those who reply with “search the forum”) because they are wasting the time of other users who strive to answer their questions.
The person who says “Search the forum” isn't the rude one, its' the individual who posted the question that is so quickly answered by a simple search of the forum.
Thanks,
Nathan
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People get rude when certain things happen:
1. People don't read the manual.
2. People don't search the Internet.
3. People won't help themselves.
4. People want all the free help they can get without any effort on their part.
The mere facts that I have read the FAQ, read the manual, searched the forums, googled for answers gives me the right to tell you to do the same thing.
They are all much faster than typing all my questions out, and then waiting for someone to answer them.
I have answered many more questions than I've asked on this and many other forums.
That gives me the right to expect you to do something which encourages me to help you.
Strangely, a lot of other people feel the same way.
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I just have a problem with some of Dan Brown's comments...
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> I just have a problem with some of Dan Brown's comments...
Ah, now it's you who gets very rude. If you start lambasting someone, you should at the very least state your own identity. Hiding behind anonymity while sniping at others is just not done.
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Maybee we should add one thing to Andy MacDonald's list:
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People get rude when certain things happen:
1. People don't read the manual.
2. People don't search the Internet.
3. People won't help themselves.
4. People want all the free help they can get without any effort on their part.
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And my list looks like this:
1. Hiding the identity of the person behind the posting
2. People don't read the manual.
3. People don't search the Internet.
4. People don't search the forums previous postings,
witch in my perspective is an goldmine of information.
5. People won't help themselves.
6. People want all the free help they can get without any effort on their part.
7. People cross posting in several forums
Since I joined the e-smith community I have had some questions but seldom have I had the need to ask the forum questions, most has already been asked.
I had som problems with dyndns and the question was asked and answered in a quople of days in a proper manner.
Most people here are nice you should try some other groups :-) where the abusing and use off offencive language is extensive and commonly used.
Whats most anoying :
Getting no answer to a question or
please read previous posting ?
Please read previous postings is at least an hint thats there is an answer to the question asked. Myself is at the present unemployed and has answered questions by looking them up in the forum and it takes time to look them up, and you asks that people should do it for you !?!
Take a library:
The librarian just points you in the direction of the book/info you are requesting but if you pay they can fetch the book/info and extract the details yoou have asked for.
This forum is an free service and please respect it for what it is!
But if you would like to pay I'm happy to help you but I will charge consultant prices for it.
Regards
Mats
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Oh, would that be the Dan Brown that has been nothing but helpful whenever I've asked a question?
The Dan Brown who has contributed much of his own time to write how to's so that my enjoyment of e-smith can be so much more?
Does this mean that if I do a search of Dan Brown's comments lately I can find out exactly who you are?
Whoo Hoo.
I'm off to the search button.....
Gregory, your cover is blown.
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Author: Dan Brown (dan_AT_familybrown.org)
Date: 09-16-03 09:59
This seems to be posted at least daily: ALL ISSUES WITH THE 6.0 BETA SHOULD BE REPORTED TO SMEBUGS@MITEL.COM, AND ONLY THERE.
But install any available updates first.
Author: Dan Brown (dan_AT_familybrown.org)
Date: 09-15-03 21:38
Need to not cross-post
Author: Dan Brown (dan_AT_familybrown.org)
Date: 09-15-03 19:07
As has been posted innumerable times, all issues with the 6.0 beta should be reported ONLY to smebugs@mitel.com. However, you should probably install the latest updates first, if you haven't already.
Oh, and www.whatever will only work if you tell dyndns.org to turn on the wildcard.
Author: Dan Brown (dan_AT_familybrown.org)
Date: 09-14-03 22:31
Well, first, as has been posted here too many times to count, all issues with the 6.0 beta should be reported to smebugs@mitel.com.
Second, have you installed the latest updates? I understand that virtual domains are an issue addressed by them.
Third, no version of e-smith/SME has ever been designed to be a publically-accessible DNS server. If you had configured your 5.6 box to serve in that capacity, 6.0 would almost certainly break it, as it uses a different DNS server than 5.6 and previous did.
Fourth, I have no idea about the windows problem--again, a note to smebugs@mitel.com, with all the details you can provide, would be the best way to proceed. After all, this is a BETA, not intended as a production release. Installation on a production server is at your own risk.
Author: Dan Brown (dan_AT_familybrown.org)
Date: 09-13-03 23:30
Um, no, Marcel, this isn't something new in 6.0. Normal users have never had shell access by default in any version back to 3.x, which was the earliest I've used. Removing telnet is new with 6.0, but disabling shell access is old.
enough examples yet?
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They look like fine answers to me. It's been stated many, many times that 6.x is beta and anything should be brought to the attention of Mitel. Shell access, fine answer there. And cross posting is not needed, what's wrong with those answers?
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Can someone stop this as this is the sorta thing that spoils it for others
;-)
Byte
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> enough examples yet?
My 2cents. Ive been using e-smith/SME now for almost 3 years.
My experience is that if you search and read and make notes of what you are doing most problems can be solved.
I have no problem been "told off " if posting to the forum and I haven't bothered to read the Manual , FAQ , Search the contribs / Google.
Sometimes it's fustrating , but in the end it's always more rewarding to
work out the answer for oneself.
These all seem like valid responses !
Warren Blackbeard
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I'm still waiting for examples of Dan's alledged rudeness. :-)
Cheers,
Jens
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Wheeee!!!!
Just had to pop in and ask is this a flameorum or a forum?
Later
Wally
P.S. From a Biblical perspective, "a soft answer turns away wrath," "a man that hath friends must show himself friendly."
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Rudeness and politeness are somewhat subjective perceptions, which are especially easily complicated by language barriers. To wit, I consider it somewhat inflamatory to begin a sentence with "As has been posted innumerable times..." when a simple introductory statement of "All issues with the 6.0 beta should be reported ONLY to smebugs@mitel.com" would have been less provocative. On the other hand, there are a great many who would find the opposite to be true, and another group who would find offense with neither approach, and yet another that would be outraged by anything less than a spoon fed "press this key..." answer. Oh, my! Who is right?
As to the virtues or vices of being "anonymous", we are all anonymous. Anyone can register to this forum with any name they choose. If you feel better talking with someone supposedly named "John Smith" instead of a presence choosing to be known as "Anonymous", then good for you. However, don't be fooled into thinking that a John Smith does in fact exist. Perhaps dear John simply cannot spell Anonymous or belongs to a religion that forbids posting real names in public forums. Or perhaps our fictitious John has the insight to realize that the vaporous intellects seeking to police most public forums are easily deceived.
Can we stop this stupidity now?
Probably not.
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"Anonymous", I feel that you have just evidenced that you are reduced in your capacity to recognise the difference between rudeness and patient instruction.
I would then caution you to avoid such similar items in future, lest you become offended.
I would recommend that you don't go anywhere near the e-smith user's manual. It is an excellent example of what I find to be patient instruction.
Hence, I see that you may find it a personal affront to your intelligence and would be highly offended by it.
Please try to avoid reading any e-smith how-to's.
They are generally designed to be read and successfully implemented by people with a low level of technical understanding.
Personally, I tend to find this level of hand-holding reassuring. It has not yet instilled in me the desire to direct towards my workmates, a fusillade of automatic weapons fire.
So in the interests of public safety, please avoid them at all costs.
Be aware that Dan Brown has actually produced several how to's. As I personally find them quite informative, I can see how you may see them targetted precisely at producing cataleptic fits of self loathing. It is quite possible that you could implement Dan's Guardian to restrict this sort of offensive material from your internet connection, but this could produce a paradoxical requirement to read a how to.
Maybe it would be best to just avoid the use of the Internet all together. The risk of receiving benevolent instruction is just too great.
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Hi All
I have throughly enjoyed reading this thread, It was entertaining, enlightening, Scott you have a wonderful way with words, you should publish!!
But in all seriousness, I am guilty, I do search the forums and contribs and google groups but inexperience means that I do not always get the search terms right. I have posted several questions on this forum and have recieved loads of outstanding help. If I am told to RTFM I realise I must of missed it last time round, in other forums I would certainly reply and ask for advice with search terms (I have not needed to do it here yet). But most of all the RTFM or search tells me that what I want is there all I have to do is find it.
I read Dans postings and the examples and whilst I myself would of not answered that way I could not see the offence. I had some bloke call me a F*7&-ing imbecile on one board!!
If you are so sensitive then you should consider perhaps buying some books or a support contract with Mitel. Even get one of these excellent contributers to this site to give you a support contract;-(o
Personally I am here to contribute and the more I learn the more I can contribute. It seems a great way to go.
Just on the other side though . . . . To post RTFM or search the groups without any qualification may seem a little harsh to some people, perhaps we could make it search the forum for "Backup2ws" and "Squid"
Just thought
Sharif
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See what I mean, this guy Dan seems to be pretty helpful
From the General forum
>>search here on custom dynamic dns (using all dates) would locate some more specific information
FROM Dan Brown
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The guy who posted the following in the qmail forum gets the problem to the point in my opinion:
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you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the list... please don't \
email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing this morning
i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you guys are... i've spent \
the last four full days trying to figure out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and \
procmail - mostly because i thought that the open-source community was cool and \
helpful - you know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly written and \
poorly organized
since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my questions... i would \
estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of documentation on the various \
source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera that i have had to install...
you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind helping \
out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the main function of the \
list is to distribute the links to faqs or more documentation
i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to progress to your \
level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy
adios
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Ugh?
Nick
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Andy McDonald, my cover is blown is it, I don't think so.
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Terry wrote:
> Ever heard the line "Give a person a fish, feed them once.
> Teach a person to fish, feed them forever."?
I thought the expression was:
"Give a person a fish, feed them once. Teach a person to fish, and they'll sit in a boat and drink beer forever."
Sorry for the OT, just needed to lighten the conversation.
- Todd
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As an experienced (20 years) technical person on many platforms (including VME, and obscure OS), I very often have to help other peoples on solving technical issues.
I very often do not like to give already chewed up answers, because it does not really help nobody. What I do is I try to point to people which way to look, and what to look for. The fish/fishing analogy best can describe the way I like to work.
Diplomacy is also important for me. "RTFM you F** idiot" is not the way I like to answer questions. "What I' do if I were you to solve your problem, is bla bla bla" sounds more like the way I like to work.
I myself read all related manuals several times. I search this forum for any e-smith related issues, I search the internet (google is helpfull), etc...
It is not really the information that is important to know, but how to get it, and being able to get it back quickly.
I haven't posted a lot on this board, because most of my answers are being answered.
Everybody's time is precious. I and many others do not have time to answer the same questions again and again. Some people just fire off oneliner, but the advise is still good. And I think very few posts are rude in this board, very few.
And sorry for any english errors, as english is not my mother tongue. Lapin is not my real name either.
Cheers.
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If you're not going to use your own name, Anonymous, you could at least spell mine correctly.
There were more replies from Dan along the lines of what you'd quoted. You more than likely are one of the one's he's replied to. I guessed wrong. I was late for work.
So hang me.
While I have and could continue to have some fun at your expense, the evidence in this thread does not bode well for you. Your quotes portray Dan as someone who has a lot more patience than I possess. Other posters have disagreed with you. I've not detected any groundswell of support for you.
One of the greatest pieces of advice that I've been given, is that you can't make everyone happy.
The number of unhappy people here is basically you, and that is an extremely small percentage. Statistically, you're insignificant. But you'll be pleased to know that you're not an anomaly.
So, now you've been recognised, you can pretty safely be ignored.
So if you've got nothing much else to do, have you thought about franchising the business of being a person who is perenially unhappy?
If you could take over the unhappiness responsibilities of more people, you could corner the market and make a lot of people happier.
There is a whole world out there to be unhappy about. The opportunities to be pissed off, annoyed, unsatisfied, aggreivated are virtually limitless.
Use some M$ products. That will give you a good start.
The thought of you selflessly being unhappy to make others happy makes me feel good already...
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And once again procmail comes to our rescue:
:0
* ^Subject.*\[e-smith Experienced User\] Re: Rudeness
/dev/null
have a nice life,
Michiel