Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Legacy Forums => General Discussion (Legacy) => Topic started by: jcoleman on September 28, 2004, 02:05:34 PM
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Great News for contribs.org and the SME Server!
Over the last few months there have been many questions as to the future of the SME Server. Today we'd like to announce that we have been able to secure answers to these questions and to assure the future development and success of the SME Server and contribs.org.
Effective immediately, contribs.org and the development and support of the SME Server will be handled by Lycoris (www.lycoris.com and www.lycoris.org). Lycoris is a successful Linux company that has developed a reputation as a world-wide leader in Desktop Linux Operating Systems with their Lycoris Desktop/LX product line.
We believe that our association with Lycoris will provide many benefits to the SME Server community:
- Professional development and support for the SME Server by a successful Linux company
- An affordable commercial product with upgrades and support at an affordable price
- A commitment to continued GPL development and availability
- A worldwide presence and marketing to build and grow the SME Server presence
- Tier 1 hosting for contribs.org
What's next?
Over the next few days we will be moving contribs.org to the Lycoris hosting facility in a Tier 1 colocation in Seattle.
Within a very short period of time (you really didn't expect us to pre-announce a date, did you :>) Lycoris will roll out a new version of the SME Server that will include some version updates and the bug fixes and errata that have been resolved by the community and others.
About the same time there will be a Lycoris commercial release. While pricing has not yet been finalized I can tell you that it will be very affordable for small business, and Lycoris will be welcoming resellers on a world-wide basis. The commercial release will include an automated update feature and will eventually have some very nice plugins (or Packs in Lycoris speak) that will be available for automatic download and installation.
Lycoris is committed to the GPL side of the SME Server and will work to enhance contribs.org in order to provide a venue for support and development for the open-source side of the SME Server.
As we worked with the folks at Lycoris to come to this agreement we have learned to really respect the knowledge, honesty, and integrity that the people at Lycoris have brought to the picture. We are very excited about this opportunity to take the SME Server to the next level with these good folks in both the commercial and open-source communities.
We'll let you know about any new developments and details as quickly as we can. Let's declare victory and work towards a smooth transition and the ongoing success of our favorite server operating system!
-jeff
On behalf of contribs.org
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Very exciting news Jeff.
Glad to hear the Lycoris team has stepped up to put their leadership, support and marketing resources behind the SME Server. :-D
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A very BIG thank you (Merci Bien!) to all of you out there for the support that contribs.org recieved from you all during the past year(s) and efforts dedicated to and done by the community!
I guess we (RonM who gathered all stuff and published it, thanks Ron!) need to add some stuff to this page:
http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/SME%20History
Contribs.org' 'old' staff really appreciated working with you and hopes that your enthousiasm will continue and grow now that the Lycoris staff is stepping in. Please support their efforts as well or even better as you have done so in the past.
As you will understand there are some practical 'issues' involved in this transition. So please bear with us (contribs.org + Lycoris) while we do our utmost best to take care of all things involved as smooth as possible. We will try to keep you as up to date as possible on this.
Thank you all.
'Now let's ROCK!'
Kind regards,
RequestedDeletion
ps.
[personal]
I'm glad and very happy that Contribs.org gave me many new friends!
[/personal]
Could someone from the French forums translate this and post in the French forums please? I won't even try myself ;-) Merci!! (J'adore toi ;-) )
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OK, I updated the page ;-) Odd to do "History" within 24 hours of the original announcement!
Congrats on your accomplishment BTW! It looks like this change could be a great fit. I'm looking forward to it!
RonM
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to introduce myself here. You'll see me over at the Lycoris Greenhouse quite a bit, and I'll be over here as well. I've got my roots in the community, and they always stay there.
And I'll warn you early - I can be wordy. :-)
One of the things that I am excited about is that contribs.org has a French forum. One of my personal goals is to get our Linux projects into as many languages as possible. I know there are some avid German, French and Spanish-speaking Desktop/LX users in our community, and some people have sites devoted to Desktop/LX up in many different languages. I'll follow RequestedDeletion's lead and ask if anyone would please translate this into the French forum as well - I speak not a word of it.
I've been delighted to work with Jeff as this transition is taking place, and RequestedDeletion has also been nothing but professional. I've had a bit of contact from a couple of you so far, and I look forward to meeting many more of you. We're all really excited at Lycoris about the transition of this project.
Look for me more here in the forums!
Rus
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Well since Rus has introduced himself so well, I might as well do it too :-D
I am the Community Liaison at Lycoris. That's a fancy word for "first point of contact". Basically, if you are a community member and want to talk to Lycoris about something other than sales - which Rus handles - you'll be talking to me.
My email address is rbnorton@lycoris.com. You are more than welcome to contact me directly; I tend to be online fairly sporadically at times, but almost always have access to my mail.
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Welcome Robbie & Rus...
Thanks HF and Jeff and everyone else involved, glad to see SME living longer as it is a great product, I've known e-smith since there very first release and have been using it since too and i can honestly say its been the most reliable server :-D
I remember we needed some work done on our sever and Joe Morrision actually ssh'd in and sorted out believe we were one of the first 10 to use e-smith and im glad its grown to where its at today and i can only see that lycoris will only make it better and give it a direction
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I figured I'd pop my head in over here and say hello. I'm a moderator over at The Greenhouse (the Lycoris community site, ( www.lycoris.org ) and I do other odd jobs around the Lycoris house. I'm just learning about
SME, but it seems like a great project, and the community seems very tight knit. Welcome to they Lycoris family. 8-)
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I not trying to cause problems but just would like some clarification.
It seems that Lycoris only has a non evaluation (good for 45 days) and a commercial version. Nothing like the "unsupported - and feature limited" SME verion.
Can anyone on the Lycoris team clarify their policy on the GPL in respect to using the Linux base and other GPL applications and restricting the license to only 45 days.
Will there always be a "unsupported" version?
This needs clarification as their announcement
I was heavily involved in the acquisition of contribs.org and the SME
Server product, and I'll continue in that vein.
seems to imply that somehow they own the SME Product.
Sincerly,
Ed
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Me thinks the Penguin is on to something......
So what exactly is the deal??
Committed to continued GPL can mean what?? Mr. Coleman's post is a bit vague on these important points.
I frankly have been quite impressed by the community spirit here...I would hate to lose that. That is what makes SME such a wonderful project.
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Could someone from the French forums translate this and post in the French forums please? I won't even try myself ;-) Merci!! (J'adore toi ;-) )
Hi,
You can now see a french translation of the announce in this thread (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=24314.msg97278#msg97278) (would it be possible to make it "sticky", please ?)
I hope i didn't do to much mistakes in this translation. :-?
A copy of this translation is also available on my personnal website dedicated to SME : SME-Fr (http://www.sme-fr.homelinux.net/).
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I don't seem to have the necessary administrative rights to make the the French thread sticky, unfortunately. Thanks for the translation.
With regards to the licensing issues, Lycoris is committed to the letter and spirit of the GPL, in addition to this community. I would point out that as SME Server is a GPL product, we could have launched our own server product based on SME Server code, with no reference to Contribs.org. However, we chose to work with the Contribs.org community instead - we won't be throwing the community away having just worked so hard to acquire it ;-)
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Wow. what a great surprise:D! I had absolutely no idea anything like this was in the pipelines:).
Look forward to the continued development of SME server, be it in commercial, or GPL arenas.
As long as the Commercial version is reasonably priced, it would definately be worth it to pay.
Congratulations to the committed team at SME, as well as the very helpful community! Lets hope it marks a new and glorious era for SME:).
Cheers,
Tristan
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Ok, I must admit that was an intelligent move. Thanks for all of you involved in the deal, Jeff, RequestedDeletion, Rus, Robert Norton and Mike Honeyfield.
From my point of view this “acquisition” of Contribs.org by Lycoris (and not the acquisition of the SME product…) will have the following major benefits:
1. A more quickly and focused Core Development
2. An efficient update and bug fix service for the Core Modules
3. Worldwide exposition through the Lycoris websites and the press
4. A real opportunity to develop a Server/Desktop solution based on SME Server and Lycoris Desktop/LX
But my main concerns (and the concerns from all other people here in Contribs.og) are:
1. This deal was simply announced without any discussion with the Contribs.org members. Will Contribs/Lycoris continue with this BAD BAD BAD procedure in the future?
2. Will it be a Community version (with no fees and no trials involved) of the Lycoris SME Server?
3. Will the Lycoris SME Server continue to use the Perl template system?
4. Will the Lycoris SME Server continue to accept the several Contribs Applications that already exist?
5. Will the next version of the Lycoris SME Server be based on the recent dev work on CentOS (http://lordsfam.net/SME70)?
6. How many developers will Lycoris allocate to the SME development?
7. Is there any roadmap for the next version of the Lycoris SME Server?
Hope someone can answer these questions for all of us.
Best regards for all of you,
Nuno Gomes
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Hi,
Thanks for the 'praises' and comments. Please allow Lycoris a bit of time to finalize their plans. Like pointed out before, the 'demands', 'wishes' and requirements just takes a bit of time to work out and meets the Lycoris standards of professionalism.
After all, the speed of this transition falling through, happily surprised us all a bit ;-)
Thanks for your patience,
RequestedDeletion
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Hi..
I will introduce myself here. I am Michael Honeyfield. I will be heading up development from Lycoris' end.
I will answer some of the questions asked:
1. This deal was simply announced without any discussion with the Contribs.org members. Will Contribs/Lycoris continue with this BAD BAD BAD procedure in the future?
I would not call this a bad procedure and how do you know that certain members were not in the discussion ;-) Please do not worry about ssuch things. There is no need too :-)
2. Will it be a Community version (with no fees and no trials involved) of the Lycoris SME Server?
We will be maintianing a Community Edition.
3. Will the Lycoris SME Server continue to use the Perl template system?
The templating system is one of the things that make SME what it is. If we removed that, then it would just be a RH7.3 server. So no, we will not be removing it.
4. Will the Lycoris SME Server continue to accept the several Contribs Applications that already exist?
Sure, like I said above, there will be a Community edition. People are free to create addons to that. Could that be included in other products? I could not say at this stage, but it will be considered.
5. Will the next version of the Lycoris SME Server be based on the recent dev work on CentOS (http://lordsfam.net/SME70)?
Yes, we will continue the RHEL based direction.
6. How many developers will Lycoris allocate to the SME development?
Enough ;-)
7. Is there any roadmap for the next version of the Lycoris SME Server?
I am not sure if I can give it out. I will chat with the powers that be and see if we can get something for you guys too look at.
Cheers!
Mike
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Thanks Michael and RequestedDeletion,
Especially you Michael, you were enough precise for 3 days of “business”. Thanks very much for your fast answers to both of you. Honestly I think you are on the right track.
Just 3 remarks:
I would not call this a bad procedure and how do you know that certain members were not in the discussion. Please do not worry about ssuch things. There is no need too.
1. As you know better than me there is something in here we call it Poll. The Contribs.org staff used this feature on the early days of Contribs. And again, someone from the stuff also pointed sometime ago (I can’t remember the post to point it out) that if a Poll didn’t have enough participation from the Contribs members it should never be considered. And a few months later the same staff stopped to use the Poll feature.
2. The Contribs.org is not a company as far as I know and, although the domain Contribs.org is owned by Jeff Coleman/Resource Strategies, the content of this website and the product(s) this community develop are not. That’s why I think you MUST share and discuss with all of us SOME of your important visions that affect all members. It will be a very wrong decision in the long run if you do not follow this “rule”.
3. Just one final thought: Lycoris owns the Desktop/LX products and Lycoris.com/Lycoris.org content but doesn’t own (and never will) the SME Server product and the Contribs.org content. That’s why you MUST share and discuss with all of us SOME important issues.
Just my 2 cents.
Nuno Gomes
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Hello to All!
My name is Larry Pellegrini, and I'm the Lycoris Community Ambassador. I'll let you all in on a little fact; like Rus, I can also be "wordy" some of the time.
As we all look forward to this great endeavor, please feel free to visit the The Greenhouse.
If anyone would like to contact me personally, feel free to PM me at either location. My email is pelly@worldnet.att.net.
:-D
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Some clarifications - we do in fact own the contribs.org site. You'll see the change in ownership reflected shortly.
We're also committed to the community spirit. You'll notice we're asking questions, getting to know people, and Jeff and RequestedDeletion are continuing to show us the ropes. :-)
We'll be discussing the roadmap in more detail after a bit here. Remember that there are many of you for us to get to know, but there are few of us for you to get to know. This process takes a bit of time. As Monkey pointed out, the templating system will be in full force. We'll also be discussing the CentOS movement and where it takes us. There's been significant work done on that platform, and it's a good basis to move forward.
We'll be continuing to ask questions. Feel free to introduce yourself. Send me a private message or drop me an e-mail (Rus AT Lycoris DOT com). We're pretty accessible. We're going to be doing the same thing we've done at our company, and that's have a positive influence.
Lycoris always respects the GPL and any license for that matter. As we're a commmercial company, we deal with both Open Source and commercial licensing on a daily basis. We do some code as GPL, other code is proprietary. This will continue. GPL can go into both free products as well as commercial, but so can proprietary code.
One person asked why we have a 45 day Evaluation Edition of Desktop/LX. That's simple. Just as Red Hat and others do, we have copyrighted and trademarked graphics, etc. Those we can put restrictions on. That's part of why we do that. The Community Edition of SME Server will be unsupported, and the commercial edition will be supported. Not a big issue there. We build upon Open Source, but we don't exclude commercial possibilities.
A good example is btX2 in Desktop/LX. It's a commercially licensed application from Bitstream. It gives Desktop/LX better font handling than anything else on the market. It's in the retail version, it won't be in our Evaluation Edition of Desktop/LX. The two can coexist quite nicely. The Evaluation Edition is there to see if it installs on your system, if you like the layout, like the available packages, etc. It's a pretty simple philosophy. You get more by paying for the commercial product.
The bottom line is that Lycoris is interested in the community, excited at all the possibilities, and we're committed to turning out quality products. We're here to help, to listen, and to help shape the direction of the product.
Abe brought up a point in one of the comments earlier. We're going to be following in the same vein as before - making the final decisions as to how things progressed, what contribs are good enough for the final release, what new features will be added, what apps need upgrading, and so on. Monkey has been doing some discussion of Anaconda and its patches, for instance. We'll always be looking to the community for such things.
We also will be looking to GPL developers to assist with development as well as participation by community members for beta testing, bug fixes, minor mods, etc. Jeff is involved daily on this. We're listening to understand both past and present direction.
Don't look for radical changes - we're just looking to continue development and implement positive changes.
Rus
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Some clarifications
Rus, Very nicely written, that does make me feel better. Like many others here, I've been working on my own things for the last few months waiting to see how everything with contribs.org shakes out.
I look forward to some forward progress with our favorite server and hope to rejoin the community (both dev and forum) as time allows.
It sounds to me like our shared communities are embarking on a great adventure. I look forward to it.
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Hi all,
I must say the news did come as a shock, i was a little worried there for a moment when i refreshed the contribs site and the logo changed ;-)
I'm glad that contribs will live on, specially after the hardware problems that happened a little while back, and things were looking grim.
I have used Lycoris before i liked it very much,and like SME samba just worked on it, I even recomended it to people, and was involved in a non profit project that donaited PCs to 3rd world contrys with Lycoris on them, , and i remember telling people that in a few more years Lycoris will be a real competetor for M$, and now with the addition of SME server I'd say it's even closer
It seems that Lycoris only has a non evaluation (good for 45 days) and a commercial version
Well early last year i used the unsupported release that didn't have a time limitation, and there still is one when i checked, i've downloaded it and will install it, just to confirm that it hasen't changed since last time.
I must say it is good news, So welcome to all the Lycoris people, and many thanx to the contribs team for working so hard.
Cheers
R.A.
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Rus,
Please be aware that I pretty like the idea of the Lycoris take over Contribs and especially all ideas and attitudes that you and other Lycoris guys have shown here in the last 3/4 days.
Back to your “clarification”:
Some clarifications - we do in fact own the contribs.org site. You'll see the change in ownership reflected shortly.
Please do clarify:
1. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org website? If so, please define website accordingly to your (Lycoris) agreement with Jeff Coleman/Resource Strategies.
2. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org, Contribs.net and Contribs.com domains?
3. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org website content (forum posts, mailing lists, wiki docs, manuals), including all the content that came from Mitel and E-Smith?. Do you will own any new website content?
4. Does Lycoris own any sort of copyright over the SME Server GPL code (any version)? Do you will own any sort of copyright over new code?
Best regards,
Nuno Gomes
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ngomes:
1. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org website? If so, please define website accordingly to your (Lycoris) agreement with Jeff Coleman/Resource Strategies.
That arrangement is between Lycoris and Jeff.
2. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org, Contribs.net and Contribs.com domains?
See above.
3. Does Lycoris own the Contribs.org website content (forum posts, mailing lists, wiki docs, manuals), including all the content that came from Mitel and E-Smith?. Do you will own any new website content?
Ownership will always remain that of the author.
4. Does Lycoris own any sort of copyright over the SME Server GPL code (any version)? Do you will own any sort of copyright over new code?
OK.. We can not "own" GPL code. its that simple. Lycoris aquired contribs.org to help give it a new home, to grow both the product and the community.
Mike
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Welcome Lycoris people. Sounds like you'll give the SME community and server a nice warm home.
I only run two SME boxes as admin in a german company, which is manufacturing metal parts. I try to contribute to the forums and some doc pages on a regulary basis.
Furthermore i try to make as less words as possible. :-P
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Can't wait to sell and support this...
:-)
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Hi,
I'm glad SME will survive!
But i have a question, did lycoris deal with contrib.org (or jeff) without SME-server ? :-x
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But i have a question, did lycoris deal with contrib.org (or jeff) without SME-server ?
I am not sure I understand your question or your point.
I suggest you re-read the press release on the front page, then re-read the replies in this forum from the Lycoris staff.
If you still feel that your question is unanswered, let us know.
monkey at lycoris.com
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Mike,
First of all thanks again. You are very accurate and promptly.
Secondly our discussion around these topics is very helpful to all the SME Community as you can imagine.
Finally just 2 considerations:
1. In fact the recent agreement is between Lycoris and Jeff. I agree. You are right. But you can always reveal some parts of your arrangement, mainly the parts that have to do directly with our Community. I don’t want to know nothing more besides this and I think most of the Contribs.org members agree with me. And just to remember all of you: Jeff never owned anything on Contribs.org except the domains and the plattaform Contribs.org is running.
2. Let me point you this link:
http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/devinfo/msg06264.html
At some part Mitel says that The code in the SME Server remains copyright Mitel Networks and is released under the GNU General Public License
So you can in fact own the copyright of GPL code. But you can’t own the GPL code.
Nevertheless I sincerely think that with your leadership, core development and core support the SME Server will finally have a bright future.
Sincerely,
Nuno Gomes
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Thanx for bringing SME back from the edge of extinction!
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So you can in fact own the copyright of GPL code. But you can’t own the GPL code.
Yes, in review of my original comment, I had in fact worded it incorrectly. Ownership of the copyright will remain that of the original authors.
Regarding the deal between Jeff and Lycoris, should they wish to disclose any infomation about that, then I will leave that to them.
My focus is to continue SME development :)
Mike
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It is somewhat confusing at this point where the Lycoris team wants community development discussions to take place. You have opened discussions on this forum. You have opened discussions on the developers mailing list. You have opened discussions and directed people to visit the Lycoris greenhouse at lycoris.org. You have directed people to directly e-mail Lycoris staff.
Please clarify a single location where Lycoris wants SME Server community development discussions to occur.
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Mike, Rus and all Lycoris Team,
I can only speak for myself:
- I deeply welcome all the Lycoris team.
- I do thank you Jeff and RequestedDeletion for your long-run vision.
Just 2 more cents:
1. Please do submit Polls on important issues. Keep this community involved and well informed. Do not hide important information from this great public.
2. Please do keep all the good “social environment” and community relations/procedures that brought Mitel/E-Smith SME Server to here. And please, DO LEARN from the mistakes Contribs.org staff did in the past.
And I hope some day Jeff and Rus will disclose some information about the deal between Jeff and Lycoris.
Now back to work.
Cheers,
Nuno Gomes
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Hi,
[Another introduction]
I'm Joseph Cheek, the CEO of Lycoris. I was the one who, on the Lycoris side, had the final yea/nay say to the question "should Lycoris involve itself with contribs.org and the SME server?" As you can tell, that answer was affirmative 8-).
I'll be popping in and out, although you probably won't hear as much from me as you will from people like Mike, Rus, Robbie, Larry, and so on.
Since I'm here, I'll answer a couple of questions:
It is somewhat confusing at this point where the Lycoris team wants community development discussions to take place. You have opened discussions on this forum. You have opened discussions on the developers mailing list. You have opened discussions and directed people to visit the Lycoris greenhouse at lycoris.org. You have directed people to directly e-mail Lycoris staff.
Please clarify a single location where Lycoris wants SME Server community development discussions to occur.
Technical questions about packages, upgrades, or any other software issues should probably be made on the development list. Questions such as "how does Lycoris' involvement with with contribs.org and the SME server affect the product in general, or this community?" can best be handled here in the forums.
I can tell you all a little about the nature of the deal between Lycoris and RSI. When we were looking at your product and your community, we thought both might be a good fit for Lycoris. We are very community-oriented and we also have a strong desire to enhance our product line. So both were appealing, but the question arose of how to get involved. We saw that there were requests for some type of Linux organization to get involved and provide leadership, and we thought we could fit the bill nicely.
As a corporation, the standard thing to do in this case is perform either an acquisition or a merger. Neither really made sense in this case, since contribs.org isn't a company, and we want to join your community and help extend the product, not just say "we bought you, now we own you". That didn't seem right.
So we made a compromise. The closest thing to any corporate sponsorhip of contribs.org and the SME server was Jeff and RSI, so we approached him. We told him we wanted to provide leadership and direction for SME server, keep the contribs.org community, and also turn SME server into a product that Lycoris could sell. Of course we could have taken the code under the GPL and just made our own product, but that wouldn't have been a community-oriented thing to do.
Jeff at RSI and we at Lycoris entered into a deal where Lycoris would give commercial sponsorship to the existing product and the existing community. He would help show us the ropes, making sure that we knew how to both handle the product technically as well as ensure we didn't violate the trust that the community had already placed in RSI, Mitel, e-smith, and others in the past. We would in turn devote development, marketing, and sales resources to SME server, and try to make the contribs.org community feel like a welcome part of the Lycoris family.
If everything worked like we planned, Lycoris would have a great product, make money [which of course we need to do], enable our resellers and partners to make money, and help the many people and customers out there have a great and inexpensive server product that they could deploy with confidence. Additionally, we could do this without violating or alienating the existing contribs.org community and people who had already deployed SME servers.
At this point we are putting heavy development resources into SME server and expect to have a release soon that includes updated security fixes, suggestions from the community, and the ability to have the necessary commercially-backed support that is vital for corporate deployments. With the help from Jeff, RequestedDeletion, and all of you in the community, we believe we can pull this off.
Thanks!
Joe
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Here's my tuppence....
I liked Lycoris when it came on the PC I ordered from Wal-Mart. (couldn't keep it though - system is a server now)
I am very happy and excited about the involvment of Lycoris and will do anything I can to help.
I am preparing to roll out 9 or 10 servers nationwide to replace my aging Cobalt Qubes. ( a project to port that to RH9 didn't work nearly as well as the SME)
I'll wait if the comercial version will likely be out before New Year.
Welcome to the Lycoris Team.
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Hi Joseph,
Very much appreciated your presentation and the important information you gave to the community.
Just to keep all “tuned” please also read the following post on devinfo (thanks Jeff):
http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/devinfo/msg06997.html
Cheers,
Nuno Gomes
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Here's my tuppence....
I liked Lycoris when it came on the PC I ordered from Wal-Mart. (couldn't keep it though - system is a server now)
I am very happy and excited about the involvment of Lycoris and will do anything I can to help.
...
I'll wait if the comercial version will likely be out before New Year.
So glad you liked it!
Our initial release should be before the end of the year, yes. That reminds me, I need to ask Monkey for a status report 8-).
Very much appreciated your presentation and the important information you gave to the community.
Just to keep all “tuned” please also read the following post on devinfo (thanks Jeff):
http://lists.contribs.org/mailman/public/devinfo/msg06997.html
Thanks for that, it was a good read. I'm on devinfo now, so I'll be able to respond to those posts as well.
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Greeting ALL!
I have been using e-smith/SME server since version 3.1, deploying it since version 4.x and actively helping new users in the forums since about version 5.x. At all the time I’ve been reading all the forums, mail list archives, documents posted and testing/deploying most of the add-ons released. I think that I can summarize some of the community disappointments and hopes. As for many of readers recent announcement was shocking surprise for me, but follow-ups by RSI and Lycoris team, took some of the worries away.
First, I agree with Jeff that only few days of discussion with Lycoris team about their plans and intentions, gave more info and reassurance to community in the future of the SME server that Mitel or even JC himself ever did (friendly critics, not to start flaming war). Please keep it that way. It is important feeling for the community.
Second, just one of most raised requests (and concerns) on the forums for a long time was the add-ons/patches management. Mitel at one point in time, have promised to make “blades” mechanism available for official/commercial, supported/free and unsupported/provided by contributors add-ons. That never made into community/development release.
There are few different efforts now to do similar thing (with YUM for example), but they are not perfect and packages conflict between implementations.
Along with obvious core distribution upgrade, package management (install, update, uninstall) from the single well tested and sorted by versions source would be very valuable help.
A lot of testing, and compatibility confirmation of packages, can be done by community, but strong leadership to organize this required.
As for add-ons that should be include to the base distribution, there were attempts to poll the most popular ones and idea died just as many other initiatives.
I would like to see base as it is (ok, maybe with system monitor, and user-panel related add-ons) and all other packages as easy installable by selecting from online list. For myself I’ve made custom CDROM with most used add-ons and add or uninstall as needed latter.
Boris.
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Greetings Lycoris folks,
I have been deploying and administering SME servers since version 4. I think the base distribution installation should be just what the name says Small & Medium Enterprise Server. It should be simple, secure and easy to administer. Improving security, administration, control and server monitoring should be the priorities for the base distribution. Addition software and functionality should be left to the community to develop and users to decide whether to install or not.
As an example, there are some contribs I install or modifications I make to every SME server I deploy. Listed below in no particular order of priority. I think these should be highly considered for addition to the next release.
1. LAT (Lazy Administrator Tools)
2. User Panel
3. CtrlAltDel Shutdown
4. Advanced Workgroup Samba Control
5. Email Double Bounce elimination
6. Update System or some other updating method (Yum plus an official update repository would be a good start)
7. Reinstate the console Internet test function
8. Default 'abuse' & 'anonymous' email pseudonyms for admin
The following contribs would be nice to have as part of the base distribution.
1. DHCP Lease Management
2. Masq Manager Panel
3. SM Panel Navigation Manager
4. System Monitor
5. Better Backup function (Backuppc - with a SM Panel for config and control)
The following additional functionality or something similar should be included with the distribution but be optional at installation time perhaps on a second CD.
1. Anti Virus (CLAM)
2. email Attachment Pattern Matching
3. Secure Mail
4. LDAP Contacts
5. Better printer functionallity (CUPS)
6. Network fax server (HylaFax)
7. AWStats
All of the above can be located at contris.org.
Maybe this is a little long but you did ask for ideas, suggestions and or opinions.
bobk
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One person asked why we have a 45 day Evaluation Edition of Desktop/LX. That's simple.
I must be getting blind 8-) Where can I download this evaluation edition? I just can't find it on the Lycoris site...
Michiel
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http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/redmond-linux/iso/
Thats just one of the mirror sites that are listed in the "downloads" section of the www.lycoris.org web site.
It is Update3, so you may wish to wait till we release the eval version of 1.4
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Hi all,
A 'Community Wish list' will be created on the wiki. It's really worth the effort!
Please allow us a day or so to set this up and you can go 'crazy' ;-)
Once the page(s) are in place a follow up will be posted.
(current listings it this thread will be incorporated)
Thanks for your coorporation and help!
RequestedDeletion
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The Wish List is here:
http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Wish%20List
Please feel free!
Hmmm, what should I wish for? A web site that is red-headed - er, ah, easily read - and active, attractive, and true ;-)
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Hi,
first of all, i hope the "stormy" travel from SME ends now at Lycoris. Thanks to the "old" contribs.org team for all the work.
Now a few "wish list" points:
- openvpn
- patched kernel, so ppptd works again.
Peter Schubert
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Kind reminder ;-)
ONLY wishes entered on the 'wish list' are noticed...
http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Wish%20List
So if you have a real motivated wish, please enter it on that page WITH your motivation. EVERYBODY from 'newbie' to 'die-hard' developer is invited to add to the list. That would make a nice central repository of wishes to work from. Don't you think so?
There is a new post in this 'General Discussion' forum where you can share thoughts about your wishes, and see if others feel the same or if you want to make sure it's a 'good' wish ;-).
Please visit the below forum post:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=24358.msg97516#msg97516
Thanks for your help,
RequestedDeletion
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I did and added mine and Peter Schubert's wishes to the list.
<snip>
<snap>
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I moved some "next release" wishes from the Forums section to the Next release section.
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Hey all,
I support two linux distro's (and have for the last couple of years) and that is Lycoris (bought and paid for) and SME (by trying to contribute to this community). I think this move will help SME and for that I am grateful to Lycoris.
I am hopeful this "alliance" between the Lycoris community and the contribs org will grow the server product.
Stephan.
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Read Jo Cheek's replies on here and all I can tell you from my own experience is that as a friend I've known and worked with at Linuxcare and prior to Redmond Linux and the evolution of Lycoris Jo has never let anyone down and he ALWAYS listens to people. That is a skill.
About three years ago I remember having a late night 2am (UK timezone) phonecall with Jo talking about how I was able to make large revenue from "reseller programmes" to shore up the investment I'd made in SmoothWall and also to foster a sense of belief and ability in distributing opensource products worldwide - a programme that netted $3m+ in 2 yrs for my cause and Jo took all the points on board and gave it his own polished spin. He's a professional - and he's worked at Microsoft and Linuxcare with the best in the business. The associations he brings to SME is huge and beneficial - the likes of Andrew Tridgell and Jeremy Allison, people in the Kernel Team and Apache teams, the stalwarts of the LUG movement that we've both worked with and the experience and pain of .com boom and bust.
Trust me that if there is one guy who aided by the community understands what SME is about its Jo. No idea about the deal with RSI - can't comment, RSI was a box shifter with some good ideas - no idea on the actual worth or value to anyone and certainly apart from a virtual server nothing made it back to SME. The lack of feedback into SME alarmed me but thats life. But thats a good thing now - Jo Cheek is back in his natural element which is all about "making things interface and gel".
Thats a good thing - he's a do'er and an achiever - oh and he's also a workaholic who fathered three kids while starting a company, holding down a job and writing a book.
So people this is positive stuff - lets sit and watch what happens and contribute when asked.
Richard
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Hey everyone! I thought that this would be a good time to introduce myself over here as Rus, Robbie, Spaaz, etc.. has. :-)
I am the Graphics Designers over at Lycoris. I am also a moderator at the Lycoris Greenhouse forums, so you'll see me in there quite a bit. I'm 14, a Freshman in highschool - I've been with Lycoris for about a year and a half now. I joined the community back in January 2003 and quickly became "NDAed" in May 2003, just before my 13th birthday. Enough about me now. 8-)
I had not heard of contribs.org or the SME product before I heard of the plans for us to team up. I must say that this is very cool and I'm sure this will work out to the benefit of everyone! If you'd like to contact me for any reason you can e-mail me directly at bauch@lycoris.com
Brandon
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It is good to see a commercial investment in the product. It is obvious that Lycoris is looking to integrate the desktop product with the SME server and produce an end to end software solution for business. This provides a distinction between the Mitel 6000 MAS and the Lycoris product.
I think the core questions concerning current users are these:
Will Lycoris adopt the position that Mitel took and offer a near identical feature set in the unsupported version as the commercial version? 'Blades' and support come to mind as the crucial differences. Lack of direct integration with Lycoris desktop solutions appears to be another feature to be deleted from the community version.
Will Lycoris utilise the community version as a development base for future commercial versions as Mitel did and continue to add features to the community release without limiting the use of the community release, such as usage of three months?
If Lycoris intends to adopt a similar approach to Mitel then the obvious question is this: how does Lycoris see itself as being able to sustain the effort? Mitel couldn't and cut the community version adrift. I'm sure the magic word 'money' was a crucial factor in Mitel's choice.
Obviously, it's a corporate gamble for Lycoris to take on Contribs and Lycoris can cut the SME server loose anytime for little damage. However, if the concept of acquiring a community is a critical component then I suggest that unless there is a marked similarity between the commercial and community product then the community will vanish.
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One XXXXXX distrib to another ...joy oh joy
running away as fast and hard as I can
(Note: This post has been edited to remove unacceptable language from it. The poster has been banned from these forums. -Jeff Coleman)
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[Post erased by pfloor]
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Good Evening,
Ok, I'm a redneck here and words mean things. When the word "owner" is used when referring to posts on the forums, this to me means that I "own" this post. As most of you are aware, I put forward ideas and other suggestions as to the possible funding of contribs.org and other organizational ideas in the past. One of my ideas was to provide the forums on a sort of "technet" CD for offline viewing as well as the contribution files. Since the "ownership" of the forums was never fully clarified (if it was, I must be blind or not looking in the rights spot), that may have been the reason for the "no-go" on the setting up of a "technet" CD.
I agree with the "BAD BAD BAD" idea of just up and moving over without any community notification. The purchase of the domain contribs.org didn't have anything to do with the community so this "BAD BAD BAD" idea doesn't apply there. Where I believe the reference applies is in the SME server distro. I haven't really seen a clear posting in regards to the copyright issues that surround the SME server. The possible change, if it hasn't already happened, in the logos on the SME server ISO without community agreement.
I am currently in a state of flux in regards to SME. I've been an avid user since v3.x. I would really like to see other distros of SME come out to allow for competition, choice, and innovation.
It feels like sitting in the saddle with the horse being yanked from below ya.
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[Post erased by pfloor]
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The logo is another issue. If it was never copyrighted, it belongs to no one (or maybe everyone). If it was copyrighted (which I doubt that it was due to the lack of the "copyright" or "registered trademark" symbol) than the owner of the copyright needs to transfer the rights or make Lycoris stop using it.
I am not sure about the copyright situation, but I do know that the logo has been redone by Lycoris. The logo while using the same idea as the last, has been changed.
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Good Morning,
Ok, hear hear, I'm not complaining about Lycoris taking over, I'm discussing, in my opinion, the process.
Again, I am focusing solely on the SME portion of this whole "process." Everyone discusses the lack of support for contribs.org and all the "screaming" about any proposed leadership. I would have fallen into any "leadership" proposed by contribs.org but nothing was done. No backbone was presented. Again, I go back to my statement about contribs.org being an asset of Jeff Coleman. He had sole discretion in the direction of the domain contribs.org but I, as a member of contribs.org was not given the opportunity to give permission for another company to publish my postings. To quote the user agreement in regards to postings:
"While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised."
In my opinion, the forums should not have been included in the transfer of the contribs.org domain to lycoris without consent from the members that posted. Granted, some of the members that posted may be unreachable and "statute of limitation," for lack of better terminology, may be over.
Now, moving on, it's a done deal, I may be crying over spilt milk, but without any discussion and opinions being presented, who knows what will happen next time.
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[Post erased by pfloor]
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Good Afternoon,
Okidoky.
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[Post erased by pfloor]
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Hi all,
@Paul:
very well put, thanks.
@Wally:
good comments, thanks.
For the record on the 'logo';
The original author/artist will always have copyright on it automatically UNLESS otherwise licenced. In contribs.org case contribs.org received the full copyright in writing.
Cheers,
RequestedDeletion
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It is a very sticky situation, but I feel that not enough information has been released onto what has happened and what is going to happen. For example there was a post on the forum asking for volunteers and I for one put my hand up. It also asked for team leaders, but not long after this was the announcement of Lycoris "takeover".
Now I don't have a problem with Lycoris coming on board, I hope if will be a good thing, but it is very hard to comment when nothing is being said about the future of the "product". You can't tell me that Lycoris do not already have a plan in place for the future of the product and if they don't I then question there motives for "acquiring" SME.
If you take RedHat as an example it is a very successful company and many free products and they had products and services you could purchase at a reasonable cost.
Now if Lycoris follwoed this path as suggested in earlier posts I think it can be good, as long as the community based product does not lose out, I can only see it as a step in the right direction.
I think Lycoris need to let the community know what is going on.
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I promised to send out a roadmap and haven't yet, and that's my fault. I'll make sure one gets out tomorrow. Jeff Coleman has said that he could put it up on the site as a news item, so it should appear shortly.
Thanks!
Joe
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Thanks Joe for the prompt reply.
It is good to see that Lycoris is taking notice of us poor hacks :lol:
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np - a brief roadmap has been released to devinfo and will be available as a news item shortly.
Thanks again!
Joe