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Obsolete Releases => SME 8.x Contribs => Topic started by: Charles2008 on March 18, 2013, 03:50:05 PM

Title: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on March 18, 2013, 03:50:05 PM
I came across the SME9 'Wish list' page yesterday ( http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server_wishlist) and was intrigued by the following:
This is a timely topic as I would like to chose a Groupware to install on my SME8 Production Server.

I have over the last 4 months examined demos and installed some of the Groupware offerings talked about by SME'ers in this forum, but it is very clear to me that nothing is going to come close to real experience.

My longish shortlist had been - Horde, SoGo, eGroupware.  Trailing ... Zarafa (complicated), epiware (old), Group-Office &  PHPGroupware (don't seem popular with SME'ers).

I am currently favouring eGroupware as it is so comprehensive, however cannot find as much information on Group-Office. I like the fact that eGroupware is popular with SME'ers and (I have read) has a FOSS 'constitution'. I am also impressed with the 'infoLog' eGroupware feature which, when so closely integrated with Calendar / Email / Filemanager / Addressbook, strikes me as a CRM (-lite) by any other name. However, I have read in a number of places in the forums of SME users abandoning eGroupware.

We are currently 3 very active users (photos, file sharing, emailing, websites, etc) in a small start-up business.

This is a tricky decision with long term consequences.

I would love to hear the advice any business-oriented users of any of the above Groupware. Particularly eGroupware / Group-Office.
TIA
Charles


[/list]
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on March 18, 2013, 07:18:25 PM
my personal vote goes to SOGo :-)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on March 19, 2013, 11:46:41 AM
For anyone else interested in Groupware, I detail below the various demo sites that I have come across:

eGroupware   (last updated 2012)  http://www.egroupware.org/demo
Horde  (latest update 2013) http://demo.horde.org/services/portal/index.php
SOGo   (last update 2013) http://www.sogo.nu/english/tour/online_demo.html

Zarafa   (last update 2011) https://demo.zarafa.com/webapp/
Group-Office  (last update - 4 days ago) http://demo.group-office.eu/   (demo, demo)

PHPGroupware  (last updated 2010)  http://www.opensourcecms.com/demo/1/347/phpgroupware    (admin, demo)
epiware (last release 2008) - can't find one


Others I have looked at include - OBM Groupware, Feng Office, PHPprojekt, PHPcollab, dotProject, Tine2.0, Open-Xchange, web2project
I haven't looked at - Redmine

I hope that someone finds that useful.
Charles
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on March 19, 2013, 12:02:03 PM
@ Stefano

Thanks for the response.
Why do you rate SOGo so highly?
Is it because of the way SME is set up with (an older version of) Horde and you can install the very latest 'all bells and whistles' SOGo alongside it. Is SOGo the Lamborghini next to the Horde Range Rover? :-)

As I understand it SOGo doesn't have (integrated):
- filing system (DMS)   
- ToDo list    <edit - my mistake, it does have tasks - edit>
- Issue tracking
- Wiki / knowledge-base
- Project Management / Gantt (Horde misses this also I think)
whereas Horde and eGroupware look as though they do?

Is there a way to integrate those 'missing' business apps into SOGo? Or any other manageable work around?
TIA Charles
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: purvis on March 19, 2013, 05:52:16 PM
I am like Stefano. SOGo  1st    Simple and fast.
But I do picking a 2nd horse too.
I feel the 2nd horse should only be optional to load only, but a preferred and well supported 2nd horse if possible.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Jáder on March 19, 2013, 07:47:26 PM
Same here... SOGo is popular because it's beatiful. Horde/IMP is powerful!

Jáder
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: purvis on March 21, 2013, 03:03:08 AM
Do any to these have a global send to contact.
 I would like a email system that could have a common contact list that could be imported and/or changed possibly by an outside program.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on March 21, 2013, 05:00:59 PM
@Purvis
Personally, I am not experienced enough to answer your question.

The comparison of complex business application software is almost, by definition, unachievable.

What do I mean?  In order to REALLY get to know a software, you have to use it for six months, perhaps longer. You then find out things that you can't possibly pick up by 'looking at the demo'; you confront compatibility issues that you might not find out about with an 'install and play'.

This of course will apply to all the competing software also. So there is a problem - who would want to change business critical software 2 or 3 times in 18 months? Nobody in their right mind. Also, even if one was crazy enough to change, the software that you were once so familiar with would have been updated - new features, new strengths, new weaknesses. New problems, perhaps problems fixed.

It is almost impossible, to have a valid, up-to-date, comprehensive (and correct) opinion of the relative merits of competing softwares.

Saying that, here is a nice side-by-side comparison on eGroupware and SOGo available by visiting the SME Server Wish List in the link in the OP (I missed it the first time around).  :-?

I would love to hear from someone using eGroupware, Open-Office or Zarafa. The SOGo'ers seem pretty bullish.

Charles

Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on March 21, 2013, 05:11:42 PM
Quote from: Charles2008 on March 19, 2013, 12:02:03 PM
@ Stefano

Thanks for the response.
Why do you rate SOGo so highly?


SOGo is an exchange repolacement that use TB as mail client, and so it can be used on every (client) O.S. that is supported by TB

if you need project management and so on, SOGo is not for you, that's all :-)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on March 28, 2013, 01:31:23 PM
Thanks Stefano.

If there is anyone else interested in this topic, here are a few links related to these groupware solutions:

http://www.clearfoundation.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,232/catid,36/func,view/id,15749/
http://www.stuartsheldon.org/blog/2011/08/open-source-groupware-sogo/
http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/biztools/article.php/10730_3932591_2/Top-5-Open-Source-Alternatives-to-Microsoft-Exchange.htm
http://ieg.ignou.ac.in/wiki/index.php/User:SonalAgrawal/My_Documentation

I am still very interested to hear opinions (perhaps a "we couldn't do without ...xyz" )from SME users re eGroupware / Open Office / Zarafa etc
Charles
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: mmccarn on March 29, 2013, 12:54:23 PM
It might not be groupware, but I'm getting what I need from my SME server using OwnCloud (http://wiki.contribs.org/OwnCloud):
- contacts and calendar that sync w/ my computers, iPhones and ipads
- easy file sharing (including webdav), either internally or with outside users
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 03:51:39 AM
Hi Charles2008 :-)

Without going into detailed discussions, I personally opt for Zarafa and z-push. Despite the 'feeling' it is not complicated, just well thought out ;-)

The current wiki page on zarafa on sme8 (and especially the talks page) works just fine on SME8 and upcoming 9.

Regards,
guest
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 09:23:21 AM
@Charles2008

Why do you think zarafa is complicated ?

For three users, the Outlook-connection with the zarafaclient is free.
If you don't use Outlook, the webaccess (webapp) is superb and free too (for as many users as you want).

Frederik
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 09:35:01 AM
this topic should not become a "best groupware" war, anyway, my 2€c:

Zarafa won't become the default webmail application in SME because, essentially, it's not full OOSS.. and, please remember, it must use its own mail daemons.. finally, since Zarafa stores everything in a biiiiiig mysql database (mine was about 4 GB), it could be difficult to backup and restore (think about the pre-backup event, that makes mysql database dumps)

SOGo is already available as a contrib (thanks to Nethesis crew), is totally OOSS, uses standard protocols, use every kind of mail daemons (smtp, imap etc), uses a standard email client (thunderbird) available on all OSes out there.. should us be able to install samba4 on SME9, we could get it work as a FULL exchange replacement (full integration with outlook without any kind of plugin or connector and totally for free)

EGW is "only" a web application, and in some cases (all my customers, for example) won't fit people needs.. in a country (italy) where broadband connection is sometime unavailable, webmail is not a good choice..
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
@Stefano,

Big MySQL-database ?  ... Perhaps if you store attachements in the database (the howto doesn't, but you could) ?  I don't know any reports of problems with backup/restoring zarafa-databases.  I never had any problems with backup/restoring the zarafa-database from one server to another.  Do you know any reports of backup/restore-problems ?

Only the zarafaclient (for the Outlook-connection) is not OSS.  Do the other 'exchange-replacements' have a OSS-outlook-connection ?

Sogo (without SAMBA4 - when in SME9 ?) even isn't a exchange-replacement, because it doesn't support Outlook.  And even with SAMBA4 there are a lot of 'known issues' ...

Conclusion : if you want Outlook, you need Zarafa.

Other Linux-SmallBusiness-Servers already integrated Zarafa as there groupware-sollution : ClearOS, Collax, Univention and Zentyal ... all ZARAFA-implementations ...

Frederik


Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 11:16:57 AM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
@Stefano,

Big MySQL-database ?  ... Perhaps if you store attachements in the database (the howto doesn't, but you could) ?  I don't know any reports of problems with backup/restoring zarafa-databases.  I never had any problems with backup/restoring the zarafa-database from one server to another.  Do you know any reports of backup/restore-problems ?

no, attachments were stored in FS.. but if you have say 20 users and you keep all the emails for years, zarafa db dumb can be big.. some GB, as I said.. this is not a problem "per se" (I use mysql at work with GBs of data) but.. but during db dump (it can take minutes, many.. 20) db is locked.. and email services (on zarafa side) could suffer..

I would add that make Zarafa's own daemons work seamlessy with SME's ones could be tricky..

Quote
Only the zarafaclient (for the Outlook-connection) is not OSS.

this is enough for SME, isn't it? without zarafaclient zarafa is nothing else than a webmail, as horde..

Quote
  Do the other 'exchange-replacements' have a OSS-outlook-connection ?

Sogo (without SAMBA4 - when in SME9 ?) even isn't a exchange-replacement, because it doesn't support Outlook.  And even with SAMBA4 there are a lot of 'known issues' ...

SOGo is a full exchange replacement without the problems of exchange..
Samba4 is the future, is open, widely and actively developed.
SOGo is open, supported (Inverse is a big company) and actively developed, using (and this is a pro) standard way and tools: MLs, a bug tracker (Zarafa adopted a BT only recently, before bugs were reported into forums)..

Quote
Conclusion : if you want Outlook, you need Zarafa.

since we are talking about the future (not the present), this is not true :-)

Quote
Other Linux-SmallBusiness-Servers already integrated Zarafa as there groupware-sollution : ClearOS, Collax, Univention and Zentyal ... all ZARAFA-implementations ...

ok, should we act like them?
will zarafa work with.. say 1000 users?
I know SME will (a work mate has 2 SME working with hundred, thousand users), SOGo will.. EGW will.. because they all use the standard daemons and the standard maildir format..
SME's standard backup will work without any kind of modification and without any kind of "wait, I'm dumping all my big blob db" time waste..

will zarafa make possible to restore a single mail from SME's standard backup? I doubt.

here we are discussing about the future and the default webmail/groupware application..
I'm quite sure Zarafa won't be one of the possible choices..
SOGo will likely be..

I was a convinced Zarafa's fan, I had used it in the past.. its webmail is superb.. but management is almost like the exchange one..
integration on SME will suffer any time they change something.. and this is not acceptable for a mail server

finally, we all should remember that:
- every contrib is created for free in free time.. if we want a full integration of Zarafa in SME a hard work must be done and there are no human resources
- installation, configuration and maintenance must be "easy" enough for every SME user, exactly like now with Horde..
- backup and restore must be bullet proof

another 2€c of mine
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 11:26:55 AM
@Frederik:

since it would be interesting talking about SME, Zarafa, SOGo etc with numbers...

I have a small customer: 10 users, 10 email account.. all accessed via imap, locally..

some accounts are "global" (info@domain) and accessed at the same time from all users..

numbers: about 90GB of mail (last 3 years), about 280000 email messages..
server is a small HP ProLiant ML310 G5p, 4 gb ram..
Code: [Select]
top - 11:25:52 up 108 days, 15:08,  1 user,  load average: 0.36, 0.29, 0.20

can you please give us some numbers about Zarafa? thank you
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 11:59:44 AM
@Stefano

In the future ?  ... Perhaps !

Charles2008 started this topic :

Quote
We are currently 3 very active users (photos, file sharing, emailing, websites, etc) in a small start-up business.

He needs a solution now !  Why should he choose SOGO now ?  In the very far future perhaps SOGO will fully support Outlook, perhaps after a very long time the 'known issues' will be solved. 

There are very large implementations of ZARAFA, look at the references on there site.  The commercial editions of ZCP provide a brick-level backup tool.

For small/medium businesses, the community/free-editions of ZARAFA will do great.

***

About the other post of Stefano, about numbers :
It is difficult to compare numbers when other services are running. That said, your numbers are very good :-)

Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 11:59:44 AM
In the future ?  ... Perhaps !

Charles2008 started this topic :

He needs a solution now ! 

you are right, indeed..

my attention was caught by
Quote
I came across the SME9 'Wish list' page yesterday ( http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server_wishlist) and was intrigued by the following:

    o Decide which webmail should be in core, if any
                   
        Zarafa oh yé Stephdl (talk)
        Horde 5.x - would make the most sense as a direct upgrade to 8.x and has free sync to Outlook via Funambol (David Harper)
        eGroupware It will be my choice --Larieu (talk) 03:35, 6 February 2013 (MST) - I think this is a good starting point  - http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/7289/1

Quote
Why should he choose SOGO now ? 

he could choose SOGo now, it's a smart solution but it would not answer his question/solve his problem..
if he needs a groupware with fileserving and other features, neither SOGo or Zarafa will help him, he must use something different (EGW, I suppose)

Quote
In the very far future perhaps SOGO will fully support Outlook, perhaps after a very long time the 'known issues' will be solved. 

"far future" in IT could be days.. so, don't be so pessimistic :-)

Quote
There are very large implementations of ZARAFA, look at the references on there site.

indeed, I'm sure..
as I said, I know Zarafa.. I'm in touch with one of the italian reseller.. some time ago, we had a conversation to find a way to sell SME with Zarafa onboard..
but he finally agreed with me that SME is not a bare Centos distro, is something more.. and integration colud be tricky
I would add that a basic SME server with 100 users will need far few cpu/ram/hd resources than one with Zarafa (mysql activity is I/O intensive)
since EGW/SOGo and other solutions use SME standards (daemons, maildir ecc) there's almost no other layer/daemons running

Quote
  The commercial editions of ZCP provide a brick-level backup tool.

the free version of SME backup and restore feature is already here, is FREE, is rock solid/bullet proof, can restore a single email and works with SOGo/EGW and so on without (almost) any modification :-)

Quote
For small/medium businesses, the community/free-editions of ZARAFA will do great.

but it works well with outlook only (with the connector).. Zarafa's imap with MacOSX had (I can't say has) issues in the past.
and if you need more than 3 connection, you must pay.. and install something on your client.. and keep using outlook and its pst files.. mmmh.. life can be much better.. :-)


Quote
About the other post of Stefano, about numbers :
It is difficult to compare numbers when other services are running. That said, your numbers are very good :-)

it was an example.. I'm sure that with zarafa and the same iron things could be (very) different ;-)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 12:41:54 PM
Quote
if he needs a groupware with fileserving and other features, neither SOGo or Zarafa will help him, he must use something different (EGW, I suppose)

There is integration between Zarafa and Owncloud : https://community.zarafa.com/pg/plugins/project/16024/developer/h44z/webapp-owncloud-attachment-plugin

And Dropbox
https://community.zarafa.com/pg/blog/read/14505/webapp-the-dropbox-plugin
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 12:43:12 PM
thank you :-)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 12:46:46 PM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 12:41:54 PM
There is integration between Zarafa and Owncloud : https://community.zarafa.com/pg/plugins/project/16024/developer/h44z/webapp-owncloud-attachment-plugin

And Dropbox
https://community.zarafa.com/pg/blog/read/14505/webapp-the-dropbox-plugin

And another integration with an essential business tool:
http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/Setting_up_ejabberd_server_for_Zarafa_with_LDAP_integration

Interesting thread guys!

guest
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 12:46:46 PM
Interesting thread guys!

indeed..

I repeat: Zarafa is and will be only a contrib.. it will not be the default SME's email/groupware default application
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 12:49:17 PM
I repeat: Zarafa is and will be only a contrib.. it will not be the default SME's email/groupware default application

That makes me wonder by what authority you can make such a statement please?
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 12:54:13 PM
Quote
That makes me wonder by what authority you can make such a statement please?

Indeed, i should only consider SOGO on SME if SAMBA4 is implemented in SME !
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Daniel B. on April 04, 2013, 01:15:28 PM
Zarafa replaces a lot of core components in the mail stack, that's why it should stay an external contrib. I don't want zarafa because I personnaly want standard components (SMTP, MTA, IMAP) and plug another webmail on top of that. SOGo does a great work with this (it can use the available SMTP, IMAP, and LDAP without any modification). And even without samba4, SOGo is still very usefull, especially with the various Thunderbird extensions. For the official webmail, I'd vote SOGo, but it could stay as a contrib. Anyway, as long as Zarafa (or any other solution) needs to replace big parts of the existing softwares allready available on SME, I'd strongly vote against it being integrated on a default install. I'm quite sure other devs have the same opinion.

Regards, Daniel
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 12:52:40 PM
That makes me wonder by what authority you can make such a statement please?

it's not authority, it's experience and SME's specific knowledge..

as Daniel correctly pointed out, Zarafa integration could be achieved in 2 ways:
- doubling daemons (i.e. using SME's natives and Zarafa's ones in conjuction)
- replacing SME's services with Zarafa's ones..

the first way is how things work nowadays, and it's not a good solution; everyone with a minimun experience as system administrator should know why..
the second is, in few words, unpraticable.

Finally: HF, please, don't take everything as an offence, thank you :)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 12:54:13 PM
Indeed, i should only consider SOGO on SME if SAMBA4 is implemented in SME !

when samba4 will be used/integrated/available for Centos6, it will be ported to SME..
actually you can use SOGo without outlook integration and, my personal opinion is that we all shoud work to educate users to work without outlook..
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 01:41:30 PM
Finally: HF, please, don't take everything as an offence, thank you :)

I didn't, did I? If so, my apologies.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 04:05:36 PM
Quote
Anyway, as long as Zarafa (or any other solution) needs to replace big parts of the existing softwares allready available on SME, I'd strongly vote against it being integrated on a default install. I'm quite sure other devs have the same opinion.

@Daniel, Stefano
Could you be more specific (for everyone's information), witch parts are doubled ?  Do you mean Pop3/IMAP ?
Zarafa uses the Qmail/qpsmtpd.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Daniel B. on April 04, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 04:05:36 PM
@Daniel, Stefano
Could you be more specific (for everyone's information), witch parts are doubled ?  Do you mean Pop3/IMAP ?
Zarafa uses the Qmail/qpsmtpd.

At least IMAP yes, not sure for the other parts
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 04:16:33 PM
Quote from: frifri on April 04, 2013, 04:05:36 PM
@Daniel, Stefano
Could you be more specific (for everyone's information), witch parts are doubled ?  Do you mean Pop3/IMAP ?
Zarafa uses the Qmail/qpsmtpd.

No, Frederick :-)

Zarafa uses its own services.. take a look at smeserver-zarafa contrib to know how mail routing works..
for example, if you want to use Zarafa via imap in SME, you must use port 8143, not the standard 143..

I suggest you to dig inside the contrib.. as I said (not enough, it seems) SME is not Centos and integration with Zarafa is a bit tricky and not trivial..
the first developer of smeserver-zarafa Steven Noble (IIRC), has stopped the development of it, moving to SOGo

HTH
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: VIP-ire on April 04, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
At least IMAP yes, not sure for the other parts

Not sure at all..

I have no more Zarafa to check.. will ask to a work mate and report here
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 04:24:24 PM
Quote
Zarafa uses its own services.. take a look at smeserver-zarafa contrib to know how mail routing works..
for example, if you want to use Zarafa via imap in SME, you must use port 8143, not the standard 143..
Well, that is because of dovecot that is doubled.
You could use IMAP with ZARAFA over 143, after disabling dovecot. (same for Pop3)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 04:32:55 PM
so, in your opinion is a good thing for me/us to disable native dovecot service running on 143 to use another dovecot instance? :)

does it sound absurd to me only?

in any case, this topic is going far too OT..
this kind of discussion should be done in dev's ML
as it has been already told, Zarafa is not and hardly will be a candidate to be the default email/groupware package on future SME releases.. this does not mean anybody could work to a better integration

Tomorrow I will post an output coming from SME7.6 with Zarafa 6.X and ine from SME8 and Zarafa 7 about services..
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 04:44:53 PM
Quote
Tomorrow I will post an output coming from SME7.6 with Zarafa 6.X and ine from SME8 and Zarafa 7 about services..
Thank you !

Quote
so, in your opinion is a good thing for me/us to disable native dovecot service running on 143 to use another dovecot instance?
Obviously, i misunderstood the 'doubled'-story  :???:
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 06:20:48 PM
@frifri, a one script install of your wiki zarafa on sme8 talk page:
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3f088b3852011c2a1d8f
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 06:53:23 PM
@RequestedDeletion

WOW !  :shock:

We should make a 'version-question' in the script because now it installs default x86_64, 7.0.13 and the latest php53-mapi.rpm (not sure it will always be php53-mapi-7.0.13).

And we have to deal with upgrades from lower versions.

With some variations we could install with this script zcp-7.1 on SME9 too (we don't need the php53-mapi.rpm in that case, and replacing the indexer-package with the search-package).
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: guest22 on April 04, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
Well, Charles2008, have fun!! :-)
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Stefano on April 04, 2013, 07:31:55 PM
here I am

Code: [Select]
Sme 7.6.0 zarafa 6.40.13-30778

ps aux | grep zarafa

root      4254  0.0  0.0  4628  620 pts/0    S+   18:55   0:00 grep zarafa
root      6997  0.0  0.0 13480 1188 ?        S    Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      6998  0.0  0.0 23732 1260 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      7017  0.0  0.0 11132 1156 ?        S    Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      7018  0.0  0.0 21380 1204 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      7037  0.0  0.1 53064 3032 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:04 /usr/bin/zarafa-licensed -c /etc/zarafa/licensed.cfg
root      7066  0.3  1.2 207936 25928 ?      Sl   Apr03   7:32 /usr/bin/zarafa-server -c /etc/zarafa/server.cfg
root      7091  0.0  0.1 35476 2348 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:01 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      7092  0.0  0.0 24980  824 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg

netstat -napt | grep zarafa

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8993                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8995                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:236                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7066/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:237                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7066/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8110                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8143                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8088                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7017/zarafa-ical
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8089                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7017/zarafa-ical

Code: [Select]
Sme 8.0 con zarafa 7.0.6-32752

ps aux | grep zarafa

root      2681  0.0  0.0    140    52 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 tcpsvd -v -i ./peers -c 40 -C 4:421 per host concurrency limit reached\r\n -l 0 0 pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-popup zarafa.simi.local checkpassword-pam -s pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-pop3d Maildir
root      2700  0.0  0.0    140    52 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 tcpsvd -v -i ./peers -c 40 -C 4:421 per host concurrency limit reached\r\n -l 0 0 pop3s sslio -vv -/ /service/imap/ssl -u stunnel -C imapd.pem /var/qmail/bin/qmail-popup zarafa.simi.local checkpassword-pam -s pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-pop3d Maildir
root      3319  0.0  0.0  28288  1540 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      3320  0.0  0.0  38536  1584 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      3344  0.0  0.0  26500  1848 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      3345  0.0  0.0  36748  1836 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      3390  0.0  0.1  58380  5156 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:25 /usr/bin/zarafa-licensed -c /etc/zarafa/licensed.cfg
root      3427  0.3  2.0 305868 83472 ?        Sl   Mar23  59:26 /usr/bin/zarafa-server -c /etc/zarafa/server.cfg
root      3458  0.0  0.1  42608  4192 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:09 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      3459  0.0  0.0  40164  1564 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      9157  0.0  0.0   4264   700 pts/0    S+   19:07   0:00 grep zarafa

netstat -napt | grep zarafa

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8993                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8995                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:236                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3427/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:237                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3427/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8110                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8143                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8088                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3344/zarafa-ical
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8089                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3344/zarafa-ical

Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 04, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
@Stefano

Thanks. Were are the 'doubles' with the native sme-services ?

Isn't it because the zarafa-contrib-devs wanted to enable zarafa on a per-user base, that they choose to take other ports for the zarafa-imap and zarafa-pop3-services ?
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: Charles2008 on April 13, 2013, 03:58:51 PM
Please excuse my absence. I had thought that this thread had 'gone quiet' and was off concentrating on year-end -  I got that wrong, eh?

Well, this is a fascinating discussion, and thank you Frederick (and HFW - hello BTW  :) ) for your thoughts on Zarafa.

Although Stefano says this discussion should be for the dev forum (and I have seen others make this sort of observation on other similar threads, so he is not alone) it is extremely enlightening (and encouraging) for newcomers to see just how many knowledgeable and talented users there are involved with SME and also how carefully and seriously they take decisions regarding, what to others might seem like, small issues.

I am a little surprised to see no EGW representation. Perhaps it is something to do with what Stefano said earlier ... that if you need what EGW offers, then you need EGW (or words to that effect) and if not it's SOGo (Zarafa or other).

I am attracted to EGW as it is like a Swiss Army Knife - lots of different apps, all designed to work together & all conveniently in one place (however it seems to me a little untidy). I like the fact that SOGo is simple (and reported to be quick) and looks neat, as I'm not the only user and I will need to sell this to colleagues currently using GMail.

Regarding resource usage - this is a concern, as I think that I will start off hosting a website on this server also (not the main site - one I want to do more experiments with - still 'live' though). I would like to keep things as light as possible.

On eGroupware:

1) (From an email from EGW user, with authors permission)  -2) a forum quote of soprom "If I didn't need the "infolog" and "wiki" implemented in eGroupware, my first choice would be SOGo."   ...   which perhaps corresponds to Stefano's earlier comments on EGW.
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49002.msg246429.html#msg246429

Once again, thank you to Stefano, Frederick, RequestedDeletion, mmccarn, Daniel et al for a very interesting discussion.
Charles
[/color]
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: soprom on April 13, 2013, 07:15:59 PM
Thanks for this very interesting conversation about groupware software on SMEserver. It's good to have such a round-up from time to time.

I would add to the conversation that in my cases (10 users), Outlook has been the most difficult part to deal with. Zarafa becomes very expensive for small community centers. This is why we use EGW+Funambol to sync Outlook.

I understand the interest for using opensource clients but most of my users are with Outlook. As many of you, I now have to sync iphone, ipad, mac, outlook, android. And Outlook is always a problem I can't remove.

It also appears to me that the notion of groupware is getting narrower. Zarafa, Owncloud, SOGo all concentrate on mail/cal/card where an older groupware like EGW does a lot more than that. For example, if I switched to SOGo, where would I transfer years of infologs, wiki pages and timesheets?

But, as I said, the game now is to sync. If SOGo can do it, I will go that way and find another CRM.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: frifri on April 14, 2013, 12:10:19 PM
Hi Sophie,

Mobile-devices :
 SOGO doesn't sync.  You need Funambol too :
 http://wiki.contribs.org/Funambol
 http://www.sogo.nu/files/docs/SOGo%20Mobile%20Devices%20Configuration.pdf
The Zarafa(Z-push)-Mobile-Compatibility-List :
 http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/Z-Push_Mobile_Compatibility_List

OSS-clients :
 Thunderbird (+Lightning) plays with zarafa too :
 http://wiki.contribs.org/Zarafa
 http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_clients#Other

Outlook :
 As you know, Sogo doesn't play well with Outlook, even if you have Samba4 :
 http://www.sogo.nu/files/docs/SOGo%20Native%20Microsoft%20Outlook%20Configuration.pdf  (see page 16)
 As you know, Zarafa plays very well with Outlook, but this (and only this) connection costs money :
 http://www.zarafa.com/zarafa-calculator/en

As i see it, you have all the features with Zarafa (+Owncloud/Dropbox-integration), only Outlook-connections costs money.  Even with Samba4, you don't have a full-Outlook-connection on Sogo.
F.
Title: Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
Post by: mrjhb3 on April 27, 2013, 05:18:18 AM
Hello all, long time no post by me. 

Very interesting thread indeed.  Have a look at bug 6653 - Upgrade to horde 4, it should really say horde 5, now.  Greg has done some pretty good work in trying to get all of the necessary components, but there is still much more work that needs to be done if we really want to move to horde 5, and 5.1 is looming. 

In my contribs directory, http://mirror.contribs.org/contribs/jbennett/ (http://mirror.contribs.org/contribs/jbennett/), there is, or will be soon, an updated file called horde5.zip, with a date of 4-26-2013, that will install horde5 via the pear method.  Don't use this file if it's on a mirror that is dated earlier than 4-26-2013, or if you look at the script, and it says, "This script will install horde5 on SME Server 8, it should say 9.  To get the updated file, use

Code: [Select]
wget http://mirror.contribs.org/contribs/jbennett/horde5.zip from your server to retrieve it.  It's a litte over 28MB.  Then
Code: [Select]
unzip horde5.zip 

cd horde5Again, have a look at the Install_horde5.sh file in the horde5 directory, to verify you have the most up to date files.  You will need to run this from the server console using,
Code: [Select]
sh Install_horde5.sh
The reason for running it from the server console is because the script shuts down the eth0 interface so that when you run the install, it doesn't try to download the already downloaded files.  If anyone knows a way to have pear not try to use the Internet, I'm up for that.  Those running in server-gateway mode, may need to shut down a different interface.  The Internet facing interface is what needs to be shut, then no shut, so you may need to change the eth0 lines to eth1.  After the initial horde files are installed, the Internet facing interface is brought back up, and a pear upgrade is run to ensure the most up to date horde files are installed. 

This will install and upgrade to the latest horde, imp, ingo, turba, kronolith, mnemo, nag, gollem, trean.  I've been testing this for quite some time.  The UI a vastly different, and there are some really good additions, and some things that I miss.  I have not tried phone syncing.  Upgrades seem to work for me, except for trean, which is the bookmarks application.  If using trean, you'll have to upgrade your bookmarks manually. 

If you are really interested in testing this, then I would also encourage you to join the various horde mailing lists, and have a look at their archives, for any issues you are having.  There are quite a few changes from horde 3 to 5, and I'll help where I can.  Lastly, this install, installs what I felt would be the defaults for my system, and how I would want to use it.  The only thing that I see is some log noise every five minutes, which is when the Calendar alarms cron job is run.  There has been some discussion on the horde list, but no fix that I found.  Here is what you will see:
Code: [Select]
www HORDE: [imp] Authentication failed. [pid 2798 on line 387 of "/home/httpd/html/horde/imp/lib/Imap.php"]
If horde5 is the way to go, then much work needs to be done in getting all of the various pear files converted to rpm files that can be easily installed and maintained.  I tried working with this several months back, but didn't have success, so I'd need some help and guidance with the process.

We can continue this discussion in this thread, but I'd prefer someone stated a new forum thread with horde 5 as the subject.  If enough interest, then we can move to the devinfo mailing list to get some assistance on getting the rpm's created, then to the bug tracker to track the progress.

Good luck if you try this, and let me know what you think.

Thanks,

John