Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Contribs.org Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ghorst352 on April 16, 2013, 05:34:02 PM
-
OS Ver. SME Server 8.0
I like to know if anybody has any recommendations on a PCI-E USB 3.0 card. The issue for me is that the Centos 5 HCL is lacking for any info in regards to PCI-E USB 3.0 cards from what I can see. Additionally, there are a plethora of these cards that are not Linux compatible. If you are reading this and you currently use SME Server 8.0 with a PCI-E USB 3.0 card please let me know the make/model.
Thanks. 8)
-
did you read this:
http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28472&start=0
a little search with google leads me to the fact that xHCI is not supported by Centos5 kernel
-
Yeah that was the first article I "skimmed" over so apparently I missed that nfo, additionally I found this article http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-Kernel-2-6-31-Has-USB-3-0-Support-121287.shtml. This information sucks hugely, what a limitation, as now I have to investigate dumping SME Server just to accomplish the simple task of using USB 3.0 external drives.
-
What is the most probable release date of SME Server 9?
-
What is the most probable release date of SME Server 9?
short answer: when it will be ready
long one: read above
-
The only option I see is to virtualize a server within SME Server that has the supported Kernel version which is IMHO a huge workaround for just trying to utilize usb 3.0 but I guess that is the route I will have to take.
-
I appreciate the smart ass reply. Considering it's alpha now I guess I could calculate per previous releases from the time-frame of alpha to final for a guesstimate but I think the better option is to dump the dinosaur.
-
One way to lose customers is talk down to customers and throw out smart ass comments. I don't need to put up with this kind of sh*t from anybody in my business. I will consider 86'ng all of my SME boxes for this constant lack of professional support that always comes with some kind of smart ass reply. The only person I have ever dealt with that knows how to respond like an adult is Mary, "the only person".
-
One way to lose customers is talk down to customers and throw out smart ass comments. I don't need to put up with this kind of sh*t from anybody in my business. I will consider 86'ng all of my SME boxes for this constant lack of professional support that always comes with some kind of smart ass reply. The only person I have ever dealt with that knows how to respond like an adult is Mary, "the only person".
could you please elaborate a bit more?
where's the lack of professional support?
did you search a bit for previous messages about data release?
one thing you should know is that there's no release data, there were no release data in the past and we don't know it it will be in the future..
I would add that since english is not my mother tongue it's quite difficult for me to understand your slang..
finally, here we have the list of the topics you started since you come here:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48095.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48095.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48112.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48112.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48126.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48126.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48157.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48157.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48163.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48163.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48183.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48183.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48464.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48464.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48528.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48528.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48594.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48594.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48639.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48639.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48666.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48666.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48767.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48767.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48971.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48971.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49019.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49019.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49084.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49084.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49178.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49178.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49355.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49355.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49370.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49370.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49436.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49436.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49506.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49506.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49515.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49515.0.html)
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49536.0.html (http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49536.0.html)
they are not all the topics you opened btw..
could you please read all of them (yes, I did it) and tell us where and when you did not get a "professional support"?
could you please tell us how many SME servers are you running too?
finally, could you please tell us how much time you spent in the past to aswer question and not only to make question?
what about donation?
maybe I'm a "smart ass" but I'm quite sure you have no right to have such an attitude..
-
Some usb interfaces can use SMART.
I would look into that as well
-
bhay3s
The only person I have ever dealt with that knows how to respond like an adult is Mary, "the only person".
This is mary, I am fickle & decided to use my middle name janet, you know us ladies, a new handbag every week. I hope you do not mind my comments below, they are well intended.
I will take your comment about me as being serious (rather than sarcastic), as there have been a few people who are less than happy with my approach to answering questions.
Bhay3s, I hope I can defuse your emotional & mental upset.
Stefano's answer is commonly how that all important question "When will the next sme be released" is answered.
Your reaction is an "over reaction" & I would ask you to cool down.
It was just a light hearted answer, as no one really knows when sme9 will be ready. The sme server project runs on volunteer effort & the development & other tasks will be completed when volunteers come forward & do them, there is no timeline or deadline, as no one can force volunteers to do the work.
I have observed for over 10 years in these forums that people often misinterpret the intent or meaning of another persons post, & on many occasions "take offence" where there was no offence ever meant or intended. People are from different language, racial & cultural backgrounds, & what is seemingly innocent & harmless words in one country, can be taken to be offensive in another country, and remember this is only how the words are interpreted by the reader, as the orginal poster never meant to offend anyone. Note also the original poster has no knowledge that certain words or phrases or styles of answering are or would be offensive, as to them the words are simple & have a plain meaning eg "The software will be ready when it is ready", and if you want a longer description of what that means then read the sentence again in order to emphasize the original comment, "I am really really saying that the software will be ready when it is ready", for the reasons given above.
So please cool down & do not become emotional, try to understand why the poster wrote what they wrote, rather than blowing your steam valve automatically because you felt offended.
There is absolutely no need whatsoever for you to chastise stefano the way you have or to judge sme & it's supporters the way you have.
A small apology from you would be appropriate eg "Sorry I misunderstood your answer due to language & cultural differences".
The world needs to be a more mellow place & humans must interact more politely towards each other, no one wants a world war 3 just because we misunderstood what the other person said.
Each of us individually must contribute to peace, & it starts on a personal level of interaction between our fellow human beings no matter what they say or do or where they are from.
-
I get dismayed when I read posts like this. Stefano doesn't deserve to be insulted, he is here day after day answering questions without financial reward from what I gather. His response that it will be done when it's done, IMHO is proper for a solution provided by volunteers. I guess YMMV.
-
Hey Guys, My apologies to everybody and especially (Stefano). Yes, I was a bit over the top and emotional and yes I let that get the best of me. Yesterday was Monday and I just didn't need something to crawl up my sleeve and it did. THE SINCEREST APOLOGY TO STEFANO !!!
Only thing I was trying to solve here was replacing my current external USB 2.0 hard drives on 2 of my SME Boxes with 3.0. However after much thinking I decided a much better approach was to purchase hot swappable drives bays which would give me obviously faster read/write rates. We currently use external drives for offsite backups and I had to change this because the backups where taking way too long as my total network backup size is 2TB. Obviously had I sat there and just thought about it I would of came to the easy conclusion of just using hot swappable drives, DUH.
Anyways I was and idiot and I am not perfect in anyway and I make mistakes so here again I apologize to all of you.
Sincerely,
-Bhay3s
-
Anyways I was and idiot and I am not perfect in anyway and I make mistakes so here again I apologize to all of you.
you are welcome, :-)
-
I know this not a direct answer to the original question.
But maybe a possibility of finding a good usb 3.0 connection may come from seeing what
usb equipment smartmontools can use and what way(option) smartmontools has to use to access those drives or devices.
I have not researched the usb3.0, smartmontools, with linux but here is a start.
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontools/wiki/Supported_USB-Devices
-
I appreciate the response but I decided to go the esata route. Esata is compatible with Centos 5.8 and the speeds are considerably different USB 2.0. I spoke to an engineer about this and basically what I go out of it is was that Esata for large file transfers such as the case with huge backups, esata is actually better suited for this task than USB 3.0 but I really can't say that's true or not however there are plenty of whitepapers out their and benchmarks that kind of reflect that. Anyways I think I am satisfied with going this route, time will tell.
-
That is possibly your best bet if your not that portable, and you can find some esata portable bays.
I do not know know what happened to the esata market. USB 3 is much faster than USB 2.
But the USB 3 should have had SMART support for all equipment.
-
This may be wandering a bit off track, but there is some buzz in the CENTOS forums about using eSATA hot-pluggable drives. Perhaps somewhere down this path you may find a solution to faster backups.
Cheers
Ian
(No, I have not tried, I do not know if it is possible)
-
I have done a bit of research on this and have come across benchmark after benchmark after benchmark for eSATA vs USB 3 and it's quite remarkable because for large file transfers eSATA tends to win. I didn't think coming into this that I would decide on going from USB 3 to eSATA but that's what I have chosen. You never hear any buzz about eSATA, it's always USB 3 this and that which is understandable since USB is the most widely used interface in the computer world. However I think eSATA takes USB 3 to lunch on huge file transfers but USB 3 I am sure will go through revisions that will change all of this in the near future.
-
There are some eSata connections on some mother boards. I really have not read about the differences in esata and sata connections on a motherboard and i have too much work to do. But the original poster many want to see what the scoop is all about.
-
I am pretty satisfied with the performance of eSATA. It is a day and night difference from USB 2. If you are interested here are some benchmarks I ran:
/dev/sdc:
Timing cached reads: 13404 MB in 2.00 seconds = 6716.18 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 380 MB in 3.01 seconds = 126.14 MB/sec
[root@draftdata ~]# dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/backupa/output bs=8k count=10k; rm -f /mnt/backupa/output
10240+0 records in
10240+0 records out
83886080 bytes (84 MB) copied, 0.15761 seconds, 532 MB/s
-
try the same test using bs=hd cache and a file bigger (some GB)
-
Thanks Stefano,
Totally missed that I wasn't even testing the drive but rather cache. Have to test higher than the amount of memory installed.
[root@draftdata ~]# dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/backupa/tmp.dat bs=2048k count=50k
51200+0 records in
51200+0 records out
107374182400 bytes (107 GB) copied, 1140.98 seconds, 94.1 MB/s
So in less than 20 minutes it wrote nearly a 100GB to the external eSATA drive. Not too shabby. :-)
-
So in less than 20 minutes it wrote nearly a 100GB to the external eSATA drive. Not too shabby. :-)
In what RAID config is your SME?
Did you get the chance to observe by how much your
writing to the eSATA increased the HTOP utils factor?
-
Piran,
I am running a Mirror config.
I don't know what "HTOP utils factor" is? I even googled it and nothing came up. Plz explain.
Sincerely,
-
I think I found what you where asking...I am assuming you are talking about http://software.opensuse.org/package/htop. I have never used htop so I will check it out.
-
LOL, I just realized HTOP is installed natively. Wow, learn something new everyday.
-
Sorry, distracted elsewhere.
The HTOP utils is the "load average: ".
< 1.0 SME ticking over proportionately.
1.0 is everything fully loaded but no delays.
>1.0 SME under load and stuff is being delayed.
>>5 SME taking maybe 5x as long to get things done.
>>10 SME coping but potentially in trouble - EVERYTHING delayed.
...and so it gets worse.
Curious to learn how writing to your eSATA affects SME's load factor
(utilisation) and, in particular, under what level of RAID you've in use.
Here we have an 8TB backup (potentially)...
Currently using a NAS box to a dedicated gigabit NIC.
-
Well I happen to use Nagios to monitor the load of my servers and during the time-frame of the benchmark the load did get high, see below:
Notification Type: PROBLEM
Service: Current Load
Host: DRAFTDATA
Address: 192.168.1.10
State: CRITICAL
Date/Time: Tue Apr 23 10:17:20 EDT 2013
Additional Info:
CRITICAL - load average: 11.82, 8.10, 3.60
-
I have to add that I use rsnapshot for my backups which does not stress the load. So the dd benchmark is not comparative to using rsync just to make clear. During the entire backup the load was minimal never high.
-
Wondered;-/ It comes down to how you do it,
when you do it and by what mechanism:-)
Certainly eSATA is fast but there's a cost.
Your "mirror"... that's RAID1?
We've tried big file runs - in and out - under
RAID5 and it just got impossible to use SME
for anything else ...the utils became unbearable.
Hence we drop the 8TB Win8 workstation stuff
on to a dedicated gigabit NIC hooked up to a
NAS box. Fortunately that box itself has 2 NICs
so it's available for use elsewhere (including SME).
-
I actually was using my server in production mode while doing the rsnapshot backup and I can tell you it was absolutely 100% unnoticeable. The beauty of rsnapshot is its speed and being low on resources. I always go back to rsnapshot for backups, I have tried Bacula and other progs but rsnapshot always impresses me.
-
Just to make clear I was running rsnapshot and backing up 5 physical servers and 2 Virtualized servers for a total of 7 servers over a gigabit network to an external eSATA hard drive while in production. Absolutely no issues on resources, NONE.
-
Noted. We use the old DAR2 contrib for exactly the same
reasonings - in particular its low use of resources and
autonomous functionality. Once stuff starts using networks
things become bearable but network throughput and so on
becomes more of an issue. At least then SME doesn't get
loaded down with what should be invisible back-office work.
-
Year or two back I noticed that eSATA was very hungry
on resources... did the job but at a 'high' cost. Looks
like it's still the same. Can't see USB3 improving on it.
Maybe I'm wrong. Hope so.
-
To recap,
My original issue was the sluggishness of USB 2.0 for external drive backups. I decided to investigate using USB 3.0 w/ SME Server 8.0 (Centos 5.8) but then it became clear that the base OS did not support USB 3.0 so then I had at least 2 options I knew that would work which would be to go with Hot swap drive bays or try out eSATA. The read/write rates of eSATA are so fast that you are only being held back by the I/O of the harddrive. So it doesn't even matter if I was using USB 4.0 (being funny) because the limitations come back to the physical harddrive. I don't see any reason why anybody should not investigate using eSATA for huge file transfers and especially if your in the same predicament as I was because the OS did not support USB 3.0. eSATA has accomplished the task at hand and then some.
-
I too have used the Dar2 contrib and here again I don't think I could compare the performance of rsnapshot to Dar2 or anything else. I think we have to compare apples to apples.
-
I believe just from quickly looking at google, the "dd" command by default is a resource hog unless you pass parameters to toggle its usage. I don't think you should add weight to my dd benchmark as far as resource utilization. IMHO.
-
Agreed. I get used to ignoring 'lab test' figures:-)
I always use real world transfers ...like bunches of
DVDr-sized files (4.7GB) at a time. Have fun and
good luck with your go-faster implementations!
-
hey bhay3s
If it is not too late.
Would you mind running those same test under a similar condition from a bash file and using the two command lines before your testing code and then see what kind of effects you get.
I am curious to know if it tames some of your problems.
Also do not be too surprised if it transfers more data in the same period.
I ask you to do this, because you are setup now for it and know what to look for and also you have previous results to compare the amount of data transferred in x amount of time and results for showing overload of resources.
/usr/bin/renice 19 -p $$ > /dev/null
/usr/bin/ionice -c3 -n7 -p $$ > /dev/null