Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Contribs.org Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: iowatorts on November 26, 2014, 07:18:59 AM
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Edit by moderator :-
Note that the following goes against SME design philosophy and you should read the entire thread
It may install, but unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing it will most likely break your server
We therefore do not recommend the use of Webmin - that is what you have the Server-Manager for
Please do not install this and then report a bug !
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I just installed my SME Server 9.0 on one of my PowerEdge Servers, In doing so I did not like the interface not showing the stats for the server it was running on, I went ahead and installed Webmin from their website. It works perfectly!
Proof Of Concept: Im xxing out information related to my server,as this server has proprietary materials on it.
*****Set Your SME Server to Allow SSH Login As ROOT LOCAL NETWORK ONLY!!!******
login as: root
root@192.168.XX.XX's password:
Last login: Tue Nov 25 18:22:10 2014 from pc-00104.i******s.net
Pay Attention Here:
[root@i*****m etc]# nano /etc/yum.repos.d/webmin.repo
Pasted this in:
[Webmin]
name=Webmin Distribution Neutral
#baseurl=http://download.webmin.com/download/yum
mirrorlist=http://download.webmin.com/download/yum/mirrorlist
enabled=1
Hit Ctrl O to Save Then Ctrl X to exit
Then
Get GPG-KEY
[root@i****m etc]# wget http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
--2014-11-25 23:19:06-- http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
Resolving www.webmin.com... 216.34.181.97
Connecting to www.webmin.com|216.34.181.97|:80... ^C
[root@i****m etc]# wget www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
--2014-11-25 23:20:05-- http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
Resolving www.webmin.com... 216.34.181.97
Connecting to www.webmin.com|216.34.181.97|:80... ^C
[root@i****m etc]# wget http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
--2014-11-25 23:21:12-- http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
Resolving www.webmin.com... 216.34.181.97
Connecting to www.webmin.com|216.34.181.97|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 1320 (1.3K) [text/plain]
Saving to: “jcameron-key.asc”
100%[======================================>] 1,320 --.-K/s in 0.02s
2014-11-25 23:21:21 (73.1 KB/s) - “jcameron-key.asc” saved [1320/1320]
[root@i*****m etc]# rpm --import jcameron-key.asc
Install Webmin
Changed Directory to /home[\b]
[root@i****/home]# wget http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/webadmin/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
--2014-11-25 23:28:30-- http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/webadmin/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
Resolving prdownloads.sourceforge.net... 216.34.181.59
Connecting to prdownloads.sourceforge.net|216.34.181.59|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/webadmin/webmin/1.720/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm [following]
--2014-11-25 23:28:30-- http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/webadmin/webmin/1.720/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
Resolving downloads.sourceforge.net... 216.34.181.59
Connecting to downloads.sourceforge.net|216.34.181.59|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://hivelocity.dl.sourceforge.net/project/webadmin/webmin/1.720/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm [following]
--2014-11-25 23:28:30-- http://hivelocity.dl.sourceforge.net/project/webadmin/webmin/1.720/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
Resolving hivelocity.dl.sourceforge.net... 74.50.101.106
Connecting to hivelocity.dl.sourceforge.net|74.50.101.106|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 22377434 (21M) [application/octet-stream]
Saving to: “webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm”
100%[======================================>] 22,377,434 4.00M/s in 5.2s
2014-11-25 23:28:36 (4.07 MB/s) - “webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm” saved [22377434/22377434]]
Issue Commands as Follows:
[root@i****m home]# ls
[root@i****m home]# rpm -Uvh webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
Preparing... ########################################### [100%]
Operating system is CentOS Linux
1:webmin ########################################### [100%]
Webmin install complete. You can now login to https://i***m:10000/
Use user:root not admin with your admin password ( root with your root password.) for login
Should See This On Login:
WEBMIN IN THE CENTER OF SCREEN WITH A DOLPHIN
System hostname i***m.i******s.net (192.168.**.**)
Operating system CentOS Linux 6.6
Webmin version 1.720
Time on system Wed Nov 26 00:07:27 2014
Kernel and CPU Linux 2.6.32-504.1.3.el6.i686 on i686
Processor information Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.40GHz, 4 cores
System uptime 1 hours, 02 minutes
Running processes 245
CPU load averages 1.15 (1 min) 1.14 (5 mins) 1.09 (15 mins)
CPU usage 22% user, 3% kernel, 0% IO, 75% idle
Real memory 406.27 MB used, 11.44 GB total
Virtual memory 0 bytes used, 5.79 GB total
Local disk space 9.84 GB used, 160.72 GB total
Package updates All installed packages are up to date
The whole Webmin Menu should show up, now you have the SME Server 9.0 Menu and Webmin
Webmin is located at:https:// (your hostname here):10000
Thank you for your time and a simple add on, nothing fancy....you an now add packages that are in Webmin as well. to your liking. Make sure you check the compatibility of CentOS 6.5/6.6 and your system. Any Package for CentOS should work as well as the Red Hat build it is on.
Thanks
Phil
Btw Do Not Leave SSH Enabled on your Server,Unless you are working on it.. even if its local only...
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I just installed my SME Server 9.0 on one of my PowerEdge Servers, In doing so I did not like the interface not showing the stats for the server it was running on, I went ahead and installed Webmin from their website. It works perfectly!
Hi, and welcome.
Installing webmin on SME Server is a *very* bad idea. It will definitely break SME Server inner workings.
See SME Server architecture http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Developers_Manual (http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Developers_Manual)
guest
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I just installed my SME Server 9.0 on one of my PowerEdge Servers, In doing so I did not like the interface not showing the stats for the server it was running on, I went ahead and installed Webmin from their website. It works perfectly!
maybe.
you did break your server for sure, at least regarding inner SME's internals
Proof Of Concept: Im xxing out information related to my server,as this server has proprietary materials on it.
too may "xx" in your post..
in any case, if you need to extend SME's features, you have to install a contrib (in other words, a plug-in)
please take some time to read this page:
http://wiki.contribs.org/Category:Contrib
@ALL: Installing webmin on SME will break templates/db/events engine and can lead to unpredictable effects.
DON'T DO IT
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I have had no bad affects, the xx's are to protect the business servers identities and internals I will keep you posted, as if there are issues that arise. So far nothing to report yet. I will go over the materials you outlined, a lot of the links were broke however...
Thanks
Phil
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I have had no bad affects,
you have, but you don't know how SME works and so you are not able to see what's wrong
webmin and SME's internal engine are not compatible, in any way..
I will go over the materials you outlined, a lot of the links were broke however...
if so, please open a bug in bugzilla about broken links, thank you
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I will outline other things you made in the "wrong" way
[root@i*****m etc]# nano /etc/yum.repos.d/webmin.repo
repos' info are stored into a db (yum_repositories), no need to create/edit files
for an example on how it works, see http://wiki.contribs.org/Dag
[root@i****/home]# wget http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/webadmin/webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
[root@i****m home]# rpm -Uvh webmin-1.720-1.noarch.rpm
I see no reason to download a rpm and install it with rpm if you have a repo
in any case, don't use rpm, install with
yum localinstall your_rpm
Should See This On Login:
WEBMIN IN THE CENTER OF SCREEN WITH A DOLPHIN
System hostname i***m.i******s.net (192.168.**.**)
Operating system CentOS Linux 6.6
Webmin version 1.720
Time on system Wed Nov 26 00:07:27 2014
Kernel and CPU Linux 2.6.32-504.1.3.el6.i686 on i686
Processor information Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.40GHz, 4 cores
System uptime 1 hours, 02 minutes
Running processes 245
CPU load averages 1.15 (1 min) 1.14 (5 mins) 1.09 (15 mins)
CPU usage 22% user, 3% kernel, 0% IO, 75% idle
Real memory 406.27 MB used, 11.44 GB total
Virtual memory 0 bytes used, 5.79 GB total
Local disk space 9.84 GB used, 160.72 GB total
Package updates All installed packages are up to date
at the end, you broke your SME only to see a fancy web page with some numbers over it? really?
everything you are asking is available via a contrib, a single package like logwatch, or a custom script that runs via cron..
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OT in this forum, move to General Discussion
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iowatorts & other less experienced readers
Webmin is not fully compatible with SME server. There are many posts in these forums over the last few years that explain why.
You should not make any changes to your system using Webmin as these changes will be overwritten by SME server system events.
You may not immediately see any problems but in time you will for sure have problems.
I STRONGLY ADVISE YOU TO REMOVE WEBMIN FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
Search these forums on webmin & go back many years, the same issues still exist with SME 9, as it uses the same underlying system mechanisms (ie templates & db settings) that earlier versions of SME server used.
IIRC webmin directly edits config files in the standard way that most Linux systems do.
SME server is very different to other Linux implementations (even CentOS) because templates & db settings are used to regularly regenerate config files, so manual changes or webmin instigated changes to config files will be overwritten & lost.
Please read about & learn the SME server way of doing things, refer to Developers Manual & numerous Howto tutorials. See links at top of forums.
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I just installed my SME Server 9.0 on one of my PowerEdge Servers, In doing so I did not like the interface not showing the stats for the server it was running on, I went ahead and installed Webmin from their website. It works perfectly!
Hi iowatorts
did you try sme9admin, we have made some works recently, could you test it and report, Normally you will have stats
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,51308.0.html
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I will outline other things you made in the "wrong" way
repos' info are stored into a db (yum_repositories), no need to create/edit files
for an example on how it works, see http://wiki.contribs.org/Dag
I see no reason to download a rpm and install it with rpm if you have a repo
in any case, don't use rpm, install with
yum localinstall your_rpm
at the end, you broke your SME only to see a fancy web page with some numbers over it? really?
everything you are asking is available via a contrib, a single package like logwatch, or a custom script that runs via cron..
Thats some attitude you have there, I quote you "you broke your SME only to see a fancy web page with some numbers over it really??" and NO ITS NOT BROKE!!! I have a BA in Security Systems In Linux and know what I am doing, I made modifications and scripts to make this work, I put this on here to show it can be done, and it was an IDEA. Doesnt mean you run right out and install it. This would be done by experienced Linux Admins... If you had a better interface I wouldnt have to go install this on my system. If i want modify my copy that is MY Business it is OPEN SOURCE or did you forget that concept? NOT its one way the way SME admins want it....This is my call you gave me the warning I deal with the mess you advised users not to do it. me however I am experienced and have the credentials to prove it. What I see your comment is VERY rude and unprofessional. And By the way I am beta testing this software, to see if it fits our needs. You should have asked me my requirements and been professional in your answers to assist me.
Thank you
Phil
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Hi Phil,
And By the way I am beta testing this software, to see if it fits our needs
As hwang already pointed out, Maybe have look here as the starting point. http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Developers_Manual (http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Developers_Manual) especially the Architecture overview section.
This section lays out some of the fundamental differences between SME and stock CentOS / RedHat / NIX.
If i want modify my copy that is MY Business it is OPEN SOURCE or did you forget that concept?
TRUE .
and like having a motor vehicle, you can paint it any colour you like, and even drive it all day in reverse, although that would be using the "product" in a manner that it was not originally designed for, and you would not get as much pleasure from it's use. :)
All been said, SME is a very pleasurable "product" when used according to it's design principles.
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NO ITS NOT BROKE!!!
au contraire mon ami, it is..
just log is as root, do a
yum upgrade
you will likely update update a smeserver-x package.. and you will be requested to do
signal-event post-upgrade; signal-event reboot
when you restart your server, all the settings you modified with webmin will be gone.. so, it's broke
and this will be almost the same if you install webmin on a Nethserver, Zentyal, Clearos install..
if you decide to use such a customized and highly integrated linux distro, you have to/must follow the rules.
I have a BA in Security Systems In Linux
I'm from italy and it doesn't tell me anything..
and know what I am doing, I made modifications and scripts to make this work, I put this on here to show it can be done, and it was an IDEA.
maybe.. maybe you are right if you were talking about a plain centos install.. but you are not..
Doesnt mean you run right out and install it. This would be done by experienced Linux Admins... If you had a better interface I wouldnt have to go install this on my system. If i want modify my copy that is MY Business it is OPEN SOURCE or did you forget that concept? NOT its one way the way SME admins want it....This is my call you gave me the warning I deal with the mess you advised users not to do it.
you are using a screwdriver to make holes.. it will work, but not as you expect
me however I am experienced and have the credentials to prove it.
first of all, I have no doubt about your skills but:
- you are experienced with other linux flavours.. if you were experienced with SME you know that what you did is simply useless and wrong
- you didn't search the forums.. just use webmin as search key.. you'll discover it will break SME
- you didn't read the documentation nor the forums, because (apparently) you don't know anything about how SME works
finally, let me say that you don't have to prove me anything ad honestly I'm not interested in knowing it..
anyway, if you are an experienced linux user you could help us (the community) to improve SME..
see bugzilla and join devinfo ML (wiki will tell you more), you are welcome
What I see your comment is VERY rude and unprofessional.
I'm afraid you are misunderstanding me and maybe it depends on the fact english is not my mother tongue.. if you prefer, I could explain myself in italian and you could try to understand me.. do you prefer?
in any case, I apologize
And By the way I am beta testing this software,
what you are beta testing? SME? SME is available in stable release (8 and 9) and in unsupported release (7).. so.. what are you "beta" testing? your customized/broken SME?
if you need webmin, you'd better start over with a plain centos install
You should have asked me my requirements and been professional in your answers to assist me.
no, my friend.. you are seeing things from the wrong point of view
let me explain you that this is a forum, not an helpdesk.. if YOU need help, YOU come here, tell us WHAT YOU need (and preferably NOT HOW YOU ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IT) and we (the community) will help you at our best (and often in a very professional manner).. in other words, if you need help you must help us to help you..
Thank you
you are welcome
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iowatorts Phil
Please do not respond "reactively" & emotionally.
Many posters here come from non english backgrounds & the language (words) used can have different strengths of meanings for different readers & posters.
Stefanos sentiment is that it is not a good idea to install webmin.
While it is not difficult to install, the same goes for many other packages available out there that work generically on Linux.
By you showing other less experienced & less knowledgable readers how to install a non compatible package, you have have effectively said to users "Hey it's OK to install webmin, it's easy, here is how you do it & I recommend it because it really does work".
This is not how admins & developers around here prefer to promote or support SME server. They prefer to offer reliable tested solutions that are fully compatible.
When less experienced users follow your "well meaning" advice, they get into trouble with settings changing mysteriously etc, & it is the long standing committed individuals here, who then have to spend time helping them fix their system, which is really a waste of time then.
As I have said, installing webmin is NOT a good idea, it is a bad idea.
While I congatulate you on your keeness to share etc, I would really prefer it if you removed your step by step post so others are not tempted to follow it.
As Stefano has said, there are numerous other contrib packages available for free that are compatible with SME server & do most if not all that webmin does. See the Contribs & Howto links at top of these Forums, & make sure you read all the Manuals & the FAQ too.
While webmin is a standard tool on many other Linux distros, it is just not applicable for SME server due to the way the underlying config system works.
The "Golden Rule" on SME is to NOT change config files directly.
The other Golden Rule is to keep the base system as small as possible & with less maintenance requirements, & additional features are added by add on contribs, which are maintained by individuals or users, quite seperately from the main SME server base system.
Re your comments about the GUI interface, developers are looking at rewriting the server manager using Mojolicious or similar, so the problem is known about & being looked at.
SME 9 has only recently been released, & a major backend infrastructure move has only just been completed, so attention can be directed to improving SME 9.0 with a 9.1 release.
We need more skilled developers so rather than putting your energy towards angst at Stefano etc, we would prefer to have your coding skills etc, even if you only make a small contribution of your time, every little bit helps the community
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hi iowatorts and welcome here :lol:
My 2 cents:
Because I'm a teacher I will try to be more pedagogic :If you are testing the SME Server, You are right to experiment and to explore every possibilities.
If you use Webmin, Webmin will not break the server, it's your actions.
Anyway, 2 or 3 years before, I have tried to use webmin because i didn't want to install bad contribs to manage few services. Webmin was useful to manage postgresql databases and mysql databases.
If you don't use Webmin to manage core services in the sme server you will not break the server but you have to find by yourself which services you can modify(reading the documentation).
As I'm used to say to my students : try try try and if you break anything, re-try again !
Now on this forum there are a lot of different personality and you will see some are very aggressive and some are very kind. Stay and make your opinion, SME Server is a fantastic geek toy to play with.
And be patient, the interface will change in few month.
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I agree with kid_of_leognan
O.T. kid_of_leognan: would you like to elaborate the meaning of "SME Server Debian Edition"? thank you in advance
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Wow, seems to be quite a bit of heat here. Let's see if we can take it down a little bit.
Iowatorts, the problem here is that webmin is fundamentally incompatible with the way the SME server does things. Settings for the supported services are controlled through a configuration database, and whenever updates are installed or configuration settings changed, the config files are rebuilt from templates. Webmin doesn't know anything about the config databases and changes the config files directly, which means any such changes will be lost when the server does its thing. If you only use webmin to control settings and services that aren't part of the base install, you might be fine. And certainly, if you're just trying it out for test purposes, knock yourself out. The reason for the very strong reaction on the part of most of the folks here is what I've just stated--it's fundamentally incompatible with how SME does things.
If you'd checked a bit (see https://www.google.com/webhp?q=webmin+site:contribs.org), you'd find that webmin is frequently discussed here, and the conclusion is always "don't do it!". There's a reason for that.
Now, it's entirely possible that you have a niche use case for which (1) the stock SME tools won't do the job, (2) there isn't a supported contrib to do the job, (3) webmin will do the job, and (4) webmin won't break the rest of the system. But you must recognize that that's a lot of "if"s, and it's likely to be a pretty rare combination of events. Your stated reason for wanting webmin was for a "status" page, which could easily be accomplished with phpSysInfo (http://wiki.contribs.org/Phpsysinfo), and wouldn't risk breaking anything.
At the end of the day, it's your system, and you can do whatever you want with it. But despite how harsh some of the responses here might seem, they are trying to help you keep a working, stable system.
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And be patient, the interface will change in few month.
Xavier / Kid of Leognan,
I am not sure what you are referring to with this comment, and perhaps you would like to elaborate so that users are not confused ?
The SME interface will indeed change in time, and there is already preliminary work in hand on this. If you wanted to be involved in this then, as ever, the dev list and bug tracker are the places to do the work.
However, I note that you have added 'SME Server Debian Edition' to your nick ? There is no Debian edition, so I would surmise that you are trying to build something yourself, in which case you need to find a new name for it because it won't be SME. So please either change it or remove it so that users are not confused.
I look forward to your explanation.
John
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This was a beta test to see if it met my business needs which it did not, the installation was based on a copy of CentOS 6.5/6.6, and no I don't plan on using this software again, it has been erased we have moved on and now are running a modified copy of Debian 7.7 Wheezy, which seems to fit the bill just fine. I appreciate all of the hard work you put into making this package but it is just a Modified Flavor or Debian or CentOs just like Ubuntu is with Debian or CentOS being a modified form of Red Hat.. mainly all scripts and some code pasted together that you modified to make SME a working OS. I can do the same thing, it doesn't take much, that's why there are so many releases and flavors out there, take your pick. I am not installing a product that people get pissed off about especially since its open source, now if you were modding a game console there is hardly any room for error, but once again its the same code, cracks repacked in a shiny new package. It is much easier to build an os to our specs and leave it at that. I will NEVER touch a premade package again due to the lack of interface, and tools and people who want to put others in a flaming war. I don't have the time for it and it is childish. I am finished with SME Forever, part of this is my fault for being lazy and trying to install a one shot business solution, I blame myself for that but not the conduct on this board. I am Dell Certified as a Technician,worked for them for many years and even in a forum when i am off shift treat people with such disrespect if they have questions. If you are going to support a product,be professional about it, this only reflects in the amount of users that will want to use your product free or not, by the conduct and professionalism that you maintain yourself at. Act like children and get cranky, then you get no one wanting to use your product do the the way you support your product..see my point?
This is my final post, thank you all for who was trying to be helpful but this product at this time does not meet our needs as a company being open-source as a viable business solution.
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Hi iowatorts
As a Professional you are, I hope that the next time, before to try a Product, you will read first the documentation (http://wiki.contribs.org/Webmin).
RTFM
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@ALL: locking this topic, we are wasting our time with a (professional) troll
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Hi Phil,
I am sorry that you seem to have taken so much offence to advice that was offered by people who understand and use the system.
You may not realise that this was probably the first distro to ever give you an easy to manage linux server out of the box. For many people starting with a linux server it can be a pretty daunting task and SME was designed to make basic administration simple whilst focusing on stability and security.
The reason why users here (and remember that everyone here is a volunteer, not paid) said 'don't' was not that they don't want you to try new things, but that what you did goes against the core design philosophy of the system, and it WILL break it, and they know that. We have plenty enough users trying to break things as it is without needing any more !
You state at the top of your first post 'It works perfectly'. The reality is that is doesn't work perfectly on SME, and that is extremely misleading for other users. Yes it may 'install' perfectly but working on a repeatable basis does not mean it 'works'. You clearly did not read anything and understand what was going on behind the scenes - if you had then you would have taken an entirely different approach.
You say SME is only a bunch of scripts pasted together, and to a degree that is true of any software. However, it does not reflect on the enormity and complexity of the task, and the work that has gone on over years to build something that is stable and secure. Yes, it may only take you 5 minutes to manually set your server up if you know what you are doing. But trying to automate that is actually a huge task. If like me you were watching samba 4 being built to integrate with SME you would realise the complexity. I am sure with your qualifications that you should know that.
You have gone on about your knowledge and experience, but perhaps if you had read the manuals, forums and bugs etc first you may have seen that what you were trying to do was not going to work viably. Quite frankly I haven't a BA or years in computers, but I could tell you after your first post that your system was broken even though you didn't realise it.
Beyond that, why did you want webmin ? Just a for stats page which you could have got via another contribution/plugin ? If you wanted it for managing your server you have that functionality in the server-manager panel. What would webmin give you over that ?
Perhaps SME is not really suitable for your requirements, but you never explained what you were trying to achieve or wanted from it, so no one has been able to help you.
I don't feel that anyone has really 'flamed' you - they have just told you the facts which you don't seem to want to believe, and seem to want to fight against.
I can assure you that no one round here wants to lose users. But you can't help those who don't want to listen or understand or help themselves.
Unfortunately SME is not necessarily the right product for everyone, but that’s life.
Good luck with whatever you do.
Rgds
John