Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Contribs.org Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ReetP on December 08, 2020, 04:37:24 PM
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Looks like CentOS is about to be borged by RHEL.
We continue to press ahead finish and release Koozali SMEv10, but with this announcement I think there are going to be some serious discussions about the future.
Started by this mail:
https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2020-December/075451.html
Reference here:
https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q5-does-this-mean-that-centos-stream-is-the-rhel-beta-test-platform-now
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"Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of
the RHEL 7 life cycle. "
And there's always https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=oracle
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Yes, 7/v10/is ok.
But a lot of thought for 8/v11.
Oracle? That won't be me..... I trust Ellison even less than IBM.
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alternatives:
fedora based with a 6 month release cycle would not be doable for us
opensuse?
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I wouldn't give up on Centos just yet:
From comments in Centos Streams Announcement:
Gregory Kurtzer says:
December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm
I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
Greg
(original founder of CentOS)
And then the following GIT repository just created today:
https://github.com/hpcng/centosng
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We welcome Rocky Linux!!!!
Rocky Linux
--------------------------------------------
Rocky Linux is a community enterprise Operating System designed to be 100% bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux now that CentOS has shifted direction.
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alternatives:
fedora based with a 6 month release cycle would not be doable for us
opensuse?
What are your thoughts about Debian?
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Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change
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Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change
I admire your optimism and I hope you are correct. However as a former IBM employee I have a different view.
IBM have a history of buying products and eventually trashing them.
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Because they have become 'economical' with the truth?
"So, if you need a stable RHEL-like operating system, CentOS will still be there for you. But, if you need to keep up with your competitors who are building new cloud and container-based applications, CentOS Stream will work better for you."
Chris Wright, Red Hat's CTO
https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-introduces-rolling-release-centos-stream/
Lots of claims about no IBM influence.
But IBM can afford to be subtle.
"You need to increase profits. We don't care how"
Then throw their hands up and say "we didn't make them do it".
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That still doesn't explain what's wrong with CentOS Stream. It'll just be a bit more "rolling release" between minor RHEL versions. It's a pain if you target RHEL and test against CentOS. But if you only use CentOS, it shouldn't change a lot (or at all)
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Because who knows what it will be tomorrow?
We all knew exactly what CentOS was.
But goalposts are shifting, and none of us can be sure what tomorrow will bring.
I'm afraid my confidence in corporate tricks is extremely low. Just seen this sort of thing too many times before.
IBM did not buy RHEL for the shits & giggles. They bought it for profits. That is the driver.
A key point made on the list was something like "it'll be fine, but if streams don't work for you then just sign up for RHEL & support"
This is just a neat way to leverage you to a position. It isn't about what a stream is today, but what it might become tomorrow.
See the above quote from the CTO. I understand the original thinking on streams being more cutting edge. My guess is they'll become more so, despite promises.
But the problem then is they have removed the chance of staying on that stable base if you preferred it.
At least we have some time to watch the goings on.
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Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change
This isn't what most people are saying. They are saying Centos Stream is essentially the beta version of packages for RHEL.
If this wasn't going to change anything, then why are so many people pissed off about it?
This sounds exactly like what happened when RH spun off Fedora. It also makes sense they would do it now since distros like Scientific Linux, also a RHEL rebuild, went away leaving only Centos. RH (IBM) wants people to move to the paid for version of RHEL, so it makes sense they would pull the plug now on Centos.
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This isn't what most people are saying. They are saying Centos Stream is essentially the beta version of packages for RHEL.
From reading CentOS FAQ, it seems CentOS will only be slightly ahead of RHEL between minor releases. It should still be very close to RHEL. This is an issue if you test on CentOS but target RHEL (because they aren't 100% similar), but it shouldn't be a problem for most users of CentOS. Not that there won't be any issue of course. 3rd party repo like EPEL, Elrepo etc will have to adapt. But once things settle down, it shouldn't change a lot for a lot of use case. Including the use case of using CentOS as base for SME Server.
If this wasn't going to change anything, then why are so many people pissed off about it?
Can't say why are people pissed. It doesn't mean anything on the impact of the change to CentOS stream, so it's not of interest to me.
Let's wait a bit, for more concrete info
++
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I'll be watching this space: https://github.com/hpcng/rocky
It says something that the original founder of Centos feels strongly enough about the change in Centos that he is trying to start a new effort to rebuild what Centos originally was. The fact that he changed the name from Centosng to Rocky Linux also says he is aware that RH has control of the name Centos.
It never felt right when Centos came under Red Hat's control. Somebody, or people, at Centos got paid alot of money to let this happen. After this happened, it was only a matter of time before Red Hat changed the rules for Centos.
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Red Hat might have shot themselves in the foot with this Centos move.
Just released:
Greg Kurtzer (Centos Founder) issued the following press statement Wednesday:
"I was just as shocked as the rest of the community with the news from Red Hat. When I started CentOS 16 years ago, I never imagined the incredible reach and impact it would have around the world on individuals and companies who rely on CentOS for Linux distribution.
In response to this unexpected shift, I am proud to announce the launch of a new project, Rocky Linux, in honor of my late CentOS co-founder Rocky McGough. I’ve started calling on participation from the global community and quickly assembling a team to further our founding commitment of ensuring seamless continuity of business operations for companies running CentOS 8 far beyond 2021. In just one day, we’ve seen an overwhelming response from thousands of supporters eager to join the project."
Also this: https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/10/rocky_linux/
Such is the beauty of open source.
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Edited by the moderator.
This post was removed since the person posting it violated the terms and conditions of Koozali.org
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Stefano,
This one is fun:
Edit by the moderator: Yes you and Stefano have had alot of fun with this thread, but you both need to grow up.
http://crunchtools.com/before-you-get-mad-about-the-centos-stream-change-think-about/
Note this:
http://crunchtools.com/before-you-get-mad-about-the-centos-stream-change-think-about/#comment-647540
And then look at how many billions Redhat have in revenue each year..... $3+ billion in 2018?
The costs are chicken feed to them.
"I had to internalise it for a few days"? WTF? Corporate bullshit. You mean they didn't sit and thrash this out for months? They just decided yesterday with not thought?
I think Stream is fine if you want a touch more cutting edge - it WILL be ahead. But that isn't what people signed up for with CentOS. Also note comments from devs WRT elrepo etc.
And also it inevitably shift our target dates too.
RH knew this would provoke some fury (and some of the CentOS devs with their Red Hats they so proudly received are choking on the felt right now), but did it anyway.
Despite pleas to the contrary, I see the hidden hand of IBM behind it who want more stuff for their cloud (why they bought RH in the first place), want increased revenue from RH - so cut costs - and want to get shot of the freeloaders.
Note a lot of RH devs suddenly popped up everywhere spouting the party line. It is comical.
Hey ho. See what happen in 6 months time.
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Food for your mind
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-the-shift-from-centos-to-centos-stream-is-a-big-mistake/
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GA recently released: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/21/06/27/0133212/rocky-linux-84-achieves-first-general-availability-release-proves-popular
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GA recently released: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/21/06/27/0133212/rocky-linux-84-achieves-first-general-availability-release-proves-popular
One wonders what the IBM shareholders will be thinking.
They're the ones who will decide the future of RHEL, and any forks.
Interesting.