Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Legacy Forums => General Discussion (Legacy) => Topic started by: rhys on April 05, 2003, 04:00:32 AM
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Ok, so I can't do anything with Gnome and SME. So, how does SME work?
I've got it onto my system. I plugged the RJ45 cable from one PC to the other (yes... it was a crossover cable). I shut down my firewall on my Windows PC. I waited for the Linux PC to boot. I waited a few minutes for everything to register. I couldn't find "Zeus" (my Linux PC's name) in Network Neighbourhood at all. Attempts to contact it via http://zeus/server-manager/ failed miserably with the Windows PC launching the dial-up window.
How do I get them to talk to each other? With Windows to Windows it's so easy.
I can get Aphrodite to talk to Promethius with no dicciculty. Why then won't Promethius pick up Zeus (haven't tried an Aphrodite-Zeus connection yet).
Rhys
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Hi Rhys,
What version of windows are you using?
Have you set SME with DHCP on or off?
If on is your windows box set for dhcp, if off is it's IP address in the same range as the SME?
Can you ping the SME box from the windows box?
Regards,
Del
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I'm using Windows 98 first edition on Promethius and NT4 on Aphrodite. I haven't tried connecting Aphrodite to Zeus yet.
How does one ping a server? At the moment it's a private network, not connected to the internet. I haven't made my mind up as to how I'm going to connect to the net yet. I could continue connecting via Promethius (since it has 2 modems) or I could buy a modem for Zeus and use Zeus as the internet connection.
I'm not sure at all about I/P addresses on private networks. How do I/P addresses work for systems such as mine?
(Promethius is an AT machine and Zeus is ATX)
Rhys
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> How does one ping a server?
Get to the command line and use the "ping" command. You don't ping a server or particular port just the interface that the server is connected to. If you want to check a particular service is accesable "telnet" and specify the host and port number to connect to.
> I'm not sure at all about I/P addresses on private networks. How do
> I/P sddresses work for systems such as mine?
Find and read RFC1918, but check that it hasn't been supersceded., it's a while since I read it...
Cheers
Dave.
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Hi Rhys,
Open the command prompt on the windows box and type:
ping or ping
and you should get a reply from the server . If the server cannot be found then you will get a request timed out message.
You should make sure that the IP addresses are in the same range or let SME hand them out using DHCP. See the technical manual section "5.11 Configuring Your DHCP Server" for more information. If you are in in doubt about the IP range to use stick with SME's defaults.
Then you need to set the windows machines to "Obtain an IP address automatically" This is done in the network Neighborhood properties.
Hope this helps.
Del
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To answer your original question: what you do now is read the manual, cover to cover.
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Sorry about the double post on pinging, Dave's post wasn't there when I started my reply, honest!
Del
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No problem about the double post but it's not adviseable to use angle brackets around text as they and the contents get stripped out when sent as e-mail from the phorum. Looks OK on the web but not in mail, I've been caught before...
Eg: Here is text1followed by and text3.
Cheers
Dave.
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the tip, I didn't realise that it worked like that.
Cheers,
Del
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Using Promethius, I get Network Neighbourhood up and the drive lights on Zeus light up - can't see Zeus in NN though.
Exactly the same happens when I use a DOS ping to Zeus and when I run putty.
It seems to me that SME has a built-in firewall. How do I get around it?
Rhys
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rhs
click start, then run and type:
ipconfig -all
place the output here, together with the results of the 'review configuration' screen from the SME server console (ie with a keyboad and monitor on the SME server)
jm
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Is it possible to save the output to a DOS floppy in order to transfer it from machine to machine? It sounds like there'll be loads of data there. How would I do this? (I now have a floppy installed on the server).
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From the MSDos prompt
Microsoft(R) Windows 98
(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1998.
C:\AWKWARD>ipconfig -all
Windows 98 IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . : PERSIUS
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 195.92.195.95
195.92.195.94
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No
0 Ethernet adapter :
Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 217.134.47.212
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 217.134.47.212
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 01 01 80 00:00:00
Lease Expires . . . . . . . : 01 01 80 00:00:00
1 Ethernet adapter :
Description . . . . . . . . : 3Com EtherLink PCI
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-50-04-36-AB-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 169.254.72.239
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 04 06 03 20:58:07
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :
From the Configuration window
Ethernet settings
Ethernet driver 1: Tulip
Ethernet driver 2:
External network settings
Operation mode: Server only - dedicated
Gateway IP address: 192.168.40.1
Local network settings
Local IP address: 192.168.40.1
Local subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
DHCP server: enabled, using host numbers from 192.168.40.65 to 192.168.40.250
Miscelleneous settings
Primary domain name: Sageworld
system name: zeus
external proxy : no
status reports: off
console mode: auto
contact details
contact email:
contact name:
contact organisation:
I hope that all makes sense to somebody. BTW I was online to the internet when I did the ipconfig. Zeus is never online - it doesn't have a modem.
Rhys
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Well, I see a few problems. Server Only? IP of the "client" (persius) is not within a "private" IP range which this type of requirement would require. See point 1, server only?
Even if you are running a modem connection from the "server" it should not be installed as "server only".
Are you in above your head here?
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Yes, Terry, I'm way out of my depth at the moment. I'm learning this on the job. Persius runs a modem and handles the Internet at the moment. Zeus is intended primarily as a file server. Eventually, when I get that sorted out and working well, I might put a modem and use it as a gateway - but only after I understand how the rest works.
How should I solve the problems?
Rhys
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OK then, what I see is:
Persius is currently using DHCP for internet access via a PPP connection.
It is using DHCP on it's 1st Ethernet connection which has DHCP enabled, yet it receivd a Windows Auto Config setting.
This means one of a few things, 1: The nic card in your SME is not working, have you checked the HCL for the nic you are trying to use?
2: The nic you have in the Windows machine does not have proper drivers installed. Have you confirmed this machine actually works in a Windows networked environment?
And the "Miscelleneous settings", I have no idea where they came from, if you do I'd suggest you nuke them for noe until you have the basics working.
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Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. I know my ethernet card works in Persius because I use it to communicate with Aphrodite.
Now, my ethernet card on Zeus is a itecom fast 10-100mbps ethernet card. It says Linux on the box and comes with a CD. Is it likely that the driver is on the CD and if so, how do I get it into SME? I need commands here. I also need to know what I'm looking for and how to find it.
Rhys
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Its all Greek to me... hehehe ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist...
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Well, I checked my ethernet card instructions. They say:
A) Driver Installation by Using Kernel Built-in Driver
===================================================
Some LINUX kernels had supported rtl8139 NIC. You can check whether
rtl8139.o exists or not. If your LINUX (ex. RedHat 6.1 or above) can
auto-detect rtl8139 NIC, you just skip the following installations and
follow the screen's instructions to install rtl8139.o driver directly.
1. Check the driver file "/lib/modules/2.2.XX/net/rtl8139.o".
Where the XX is the version number of the latest kernel.
2. Add "alias eth0 rtl8139" into the /etc/conf.modules file.
cd /etc
vi conf.modules
alias eth0 rtl8139
3. Run the following commands at the LINUX prompt.
modprobe rtl8139
ifconfig eth0 192.74.53.10
4. Now, you can run 'ifconfig' or 'netstat -i' to see if there is a
interface 'eth0'.
B) Kernel Doesn't Support Driver
=============================
If your kernel doesn't support RTL8139 NIC, you should compile driver
by yourself. Please contact http://www.scyld.com/network/rtl8139.html
to get source code. The compiler command is located on the end of source
code. Maybe like "gcc -DMODULE -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O6 -c rtl8139.c".
If you couldn't compile success, maybe you should refer to error message
and copy library or head file to Linux.
----
All trademarks or brand names mentioned are properties
of their respective companies.
As I haven't found rtl8139 and SME is allegedly based on RH 7.2 and is thus supposed to contain rtl8139 then it looks very much as though SME is never going to work (as I said in my earlier post, which everybody derided). I can honestly say I've given it a darned good go - in fact I've spent several weeks trying to get SME to work. It's quite obvious to me that it hasn't got a snowball's chance of working.
Unless somebody can come up with a solution that actually works, I'll just have to write this off to experience and get a real operating system.
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The driver for the rtl8139a/b/c/d driver is built into e-smith. It should find it on the initial install.
I use this card as standard and have many e-smith servers working quite happily on this card.
You do not need to add any drivers for this network card to work.
Dean
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That's quite perplexing then.
If it's already loaded, why isn't it working?
The only thing I can possibly think of is that I might have to tinker with the bios. That'd be very strange - I never need to tinker with the bios on my old machine - it sets everything automatically.
I'm using a Shuttle AK32A board.
Any suggestions as to what I should be looking for or doing in the Bios in order to get this to work. I keep wanting to throw the towel in and to use something else but I just can't. It's such an annoying, infuriating and frustrating situation that I feel a need to dominate it and show it who's boss.
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rhys, on your win98 machine
click start > run
type in winipcfg
when that window opens choose your nic in the dropdown window
then along the bottom, click [release all] wait a few seconds for all the ip address to clear to 0.0.0.0 then click renew all. then yu should get an ip address in the correct range and be able to find the e-smith server.
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Hi Rhys,
I also use this card in 2 SME servers, both were found during install. I suggest you take Robert's advice and read the manual, if look at section 5.8 Configuring Your Local Network in the Technical Manual it explains how to install the NIC drivers. If you follow each step from Chapter 5 of this manual you should be able to correctly install & configure your SME server. Are you new to networking as well as SME? I am a SME newbie but I have a good networking background which I think is essential when installing any server software.
Good Luck
Del
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Now the problem communicating with my server takes on a very interesting aspect.
I've tried all manner of ways of communicating with it.
My experience of networking (aside from using the college network as an ordinary user when I was in college) is limited to transferring files from my laptop (NT4) to my PC (W98) via a BNC connection.
I tried to communicate with my PCfrom my laptop via several different RJ45 cables yesterday and didn't get through. I used patch cables both with and without a crossover widget. I even plugged in my hub and didn't get a sausage out of it. None of the lights winked so there's obviously no traffic between the machines. Having said that, my card on Zeus has a light whic stayed on when the cable was plugged in. With a BNC network, it's easy - plug and go. The RJ45 cables and hub are all brand spanking new. I've got 3 patch leads and one crossover plug plus my hub. The lights on the hub were all on but didn't wink.
I'm fighting a losing battle here. I have an RJ45 setup that I know nothing much about. I have SME Linux about which I know nothing and my laptop will only talk to my PC via BNC.
While I'm doing a BNC connection, Persuis can see Aphrodite and vice versa - via Network Neighbourhood. I can't ping or telnet but I can transfer files via drag and drop to shared folders. Aphrodite is NT4, Persius is Win 98. Zeus is connected via RJ45 and neither can see Zeus. Zeus runs SME Linux. The hub is connected directly to Persius at the moment (with Persius as the host).
I've tried all the little wrinkles people have shown me but to no avail. And yes... I did remember to turn my firewall off. Persius connects to the net so it runs Zone Alarm. I wonder if Norton Antivirus is doing anything naughty. I tried a ping and had 100% loss. I tried telnet to no avail. I tried http and had no luck. Each time, my W98 machine demanded a dial-up connection. I guess that means it didn't find anything on the local network.
So, basically, I have 3 computers that won't communicate via RJ45, of which two will communicate via BNC. I have a BNC cable and an RJ45 hub and cables. The situation is made marginally more complicated by the fact that only Aphrodite has a dedicated monitor. Zeus and Persius have to share Persiuses monitor because I'm darned well not going to buy another monitor.
My plan is:
1. Set up a server that'll sit in a little corner, minding its own business where it will hold all my files and software on a raid protected drive system.
2. Set it up to handle all those time-consuming tasks such as printing so it'll be a printer server.
3. Set it up later to handle internet communications whereby it'll virus check everything and act as a firewall.
Anybody have any fresh ideas?
Yours,
Rhys
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Hi Rhys,
Take a look here:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/home-network.htm
This will help you set up yuor windows boxes. If I was you I would forget SME until you get your windows boxes to network via RJ45. When you have done this you will be able to add the SME server to the network.
Regards,
Del
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Rhys,
I agree with Del. You need to first get a good understanding of how TCP/IP works in general (hardware [NICs, hubs, routers, cables], IP adresses, network masks, routing, address spaces, private vs. public networks, DHCP servers). Then you need to understand how Windows deals with TCP/IP. Finally you need to learn some Linux/Unix basics to understand what tools you have to troubleshoot when things don't work as desired.
Judging from your Windows config printout above, the Windows 98 machine did not find a DHCP server anywhere, so it used an "autoconfigured" IP address in the 169.254.x.x space (not really an address space officially designated for private networks, but somehow MS chose this, I guess)
It looks like the SME server has found it's NIC and is providing DHCP server functionality on it.
I suspect that you have physical connectivity problems in the network. Make sure you're not using the "uplink" port of the hub, if it has one. Use only straight cables, not crossover, for the connections to the hub.
Also, I would advise not to use BNC and 10BaseT (or 100BaseT) (your hub network) at the same time, if you're doing that. Certainly you should not connect the same NIC (even if it has both BNC and RJ45 plugs) to both types of network at the same time.
My advice, again, is to pause, take a deep breath, and then go learn, learn, learn before attempting this again. Alternatively you could always find someone in your circles with more experience and ask them to help and teach you as they go along. May even be worth paying for, if you're looking at this in a professional setting.
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Hi Rhys
I just saw that your NIC in Persius is a 3Com card.
I suspect that it is a combo card with both BNC and RJ45 connectors.
I've had a few of those myself, and I had to use a 3Com tool to force them to use the RJ45 connector instead of the BNC. (Mine used to be in a BNC network before I got them)
Could this be the reason why you are able to connect using BNC but not RJ45?
Hope that you get it sorted out...
Per Smith
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Hi Per,
Yes... it's a 3C900B-COMBO. I can't find any software that'll change the switch settings for me. I'm toying with the idea of getting a BNC card for Zeus and just running the whole network off BNC since BNC actually works.
If I could change the switch settings back and fro then that would solve the problem. The best I've managed so far is to read them via one of the programs I downloaded from the 3com website.
The problem on Aphrodite, however, is more complex. There is software available to change the switch but... Aphrodite has the maximum RAM possible but because it's running NT4, most of it's in use. Thus, the program complains about insufficient memory and then quits. Under DOS, it needs to access the C drive but... the C drive ain't FAT - it's NTFS.
I figure if I can get Persius to switch back and fro then I can use Persius to check on Zeus. Then, when I'm happy that Zeus and Persius go together well, I can switch Persius back to BNC and use the CD drive on Persius to load the drivers for a new ethernet card for Aphrodite.
Aphrodite does not have a CD unit and has 80mb RAM. - it's an elderly IBM 760EL.
So, any help on switching Persius from BNC to RJ45 and back would be greatfully recieved.
Rhys