Topic: kernel upgrade

[vishal dalsania]

i am using SME server 5.5 and kernel version 2.2.19
now i want to upgrade the kernel to 2.4.18
but i dont want the other package to upgrade
i want to make the CD with newer version of kernel
so which packages i must replace in the original CD
of SME server 5.5

[Arne]

I have never compiled or installed a new kernel on a e-smith but I have done it for some times at a standard RedHat, for some time ago, so I guess I don't remember everything.

In RedHat it is not really difficult, to compile or include a new kernel. There is a kernel compilation kit running under Gnome. This graphical kernel development environment contains a some kind of step by step guide, so it is not so difficult if you have a kernel source code.

I think the Linux kernel had a rather major revision from the 2.2.x to the 2.4.x version.

The 2.2.x vere running the "ipchains" old type firewall while the 2.4.x kernel got a completely new mechanism for datatransportation and firewalling and the iptables configuration tool. On the other hand the 2.4.x kernel had an optional kernel module that gave it backwards compability with the ipchains and the 2.2.x kernel. At least RedHat 7.0 and 7.1 were delivered with ipchains as the default configuration.

To say it more easy, if there is not a correct version and konfiguration of the kernel, or if you change to another version, you will have to redisign the firewall and nat mechanism completely.  

The 2.4.x kernel is a rather modularized kernel, made up of a lot of small parts that kan be loaded dynamically, or it can be compiled in another way so it will work in a more static way as a monolitic kernel. I think the 2.2.x kernel had a more static disign without theese dynamic options.

If your e-smith are using the ipchains or iptables generation of firewall is easy to find out by issuing the command "iptables -l" (Small L) and "ipchains -l" (Same small L) You will then see which command that work and lists the firewall status and not. (The Netfilter/iptables firewall actually came with the latest verion of the 2.2.x kernel.

In my e-smith 5.6 home server, I think the 2.4.x kernel prinsipple of dynamic loading of kernel modules is used quite heavily. I think you can check this with the command "modprobe -l" (Small L) Dont know if this command will work in any way with the 2.2.x kernel.

I have been thinking a little about trying to transfer a newer kernel to the e-smith 5.6/6-0 but I havent tried so far. The way I think it possibly could work (but I don't really know) would be to make a RedHat installation with Gnome and kernel compilation kit. Then I would have tried to compile a new monolitic / non dynamic kernel, and then I would try to transfer this to the e-smith.

The reason for monolitic/non dynamic is that this, I belive will not make it neccessary to transfer all thos small kernel modules that has to be there to be dynamic loadable.

The bad thin about using a monolitic kernel is that it will be less effective and use more memmory as all "unnessesary", drivers, etc are there all the time also when they are not needed. The good thing is that it might be simpler.

I believe there is no kernel rpm. I belive that the kernel is not a part of the ordinary rpm pacage system, so I believe you can not only pick it from a newer CD. (But still I'm not shore if a kernel upgrade can be made as an rpm, I will guess this is possible.)

If some of you other knows something more or if I'm wrong about things, please leave a msg !!

[Arne]

Without knowing it for sure I think the e-smith 5.5 is using the old type firewall is based on ipchains, the old type of firewall that normally were contained in the 2.2.x kernel.

To find it out is just to issue the commands "iptables -L" and "ipchains -L". The one that is working will tell which is in use.

I made an extra question to find out a little bit more about this:

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=9320.msg35511#msg35511

If the e-smith 5.5 is based on a ipchains firewall ruleset this will "basicly" or "normaly" say that all the firewall ruleset will have to be redisigned from the bottom. But actually there is an exception. The 2.4.x kernel also contains (if you compile it in during the kernel compelation) a ipchains compability module for backward compability.

I think that the real and practical life it will be much more easy to just upgrade the whole installation to 5.6 or 6.0 and then transfer just the datas. I think that "the upgrade of kernel only" alternative is a lot more difficult than a complete new installation.

[Klaus Eckert]

hello

in my opinion it is not a good idea to install the 2.4 kernel to the SME 5.6.

first thing is - as Arne explained - the ipchains/iptables.

second: many other tools are designed for the kernel that they originally based on.
if you use an other kernel-version you will "steal" them the basics.

third: the kernel-sources are normally not standard in the SME-installation.
you will have to install the develop-rpm or compile your new kernel on another redhat machine.

cheers klaus

[Mike]

I have tried to do a kernel upgrade on SME 5.6 because I had a motherboard that had a chipset that was not supported.
Came pretty far but with a lot of trouble.
I agree with Klaus that it is not a good idea to try it.
If I was you, I would think over your reasons, why you wouldn't want the older packages to be upgraded.
I asume you have got a good reason for it but I would try to get whatever you have running now on the older SME to get working on an SME 6
SME 6 runs on kernel 2.4.20-18.7 if I'm not mistaking.
That's a newer kernel as the 2.4.18 you want to upgrade to so it should give you all the functionality and compatibility you are looking for.
I can recommend to upgrade to SME 6 because it runs very stabile.

[Juan]

so if i want to run 2.6.0 ?

[Mike]

Hi Juan

I can only tell you how I made a dual boot with the origional kernel and a newer one.
It would work with SME 5.6 and did not fully function like it should.
Try at your own risk!!!
Go here and you will get a clear description on how I did it.

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=7889.msg29213#msg29213

You will probably have to search for newer packages that will work with the 2.6 kernel.
It won't be easy and I can not help you beyond this because my knowledge of Linux just is to limited (so is the spare time that I used have).
I found this to work with a lot of hard work and not the least with a lot of people that tried to help me.
Even Charlie Brady jumped in to help me on my way.
Still greatfull for all the help I got so of cause I try to repay it by helping others as good as I can.

Good luck, Mike

[Arne]

This was a smart solution !

(Ired trough the refered tread.)

If the RedHat and the e-smith had used the same kernel compilation setup I belive this could have worked. If it do not work I would believe that this is because sme/e-smith compiles their own kernels from the orginal sourcode that is not identical to the RedHat distribution (??).

What you actually do is not to try to compile your own kernel, but just to upload and installed a kernel modification as an rpm from RedHat.

If the e-smith wasen't so much modified and if the kernel environment vere identical or "the same" I belive it coud have worked.

When it does not I think that is just because the e-smith and the RedHat are not simular enough. Even though it is the same kernel, the "same kernel" can be compiled in hundreds or thousends of different ways, so it is still different even though it is the same.

The use of a double boot during installation of a new kernel is, I think very smart, and very neccessary. Bhen the new kernel crash you just boot from the old one.

I think that one of the basic problems you have to deal with during the installation of a new kernel is that "the kernel" is usually not only one pice og software, its first the kernel image, and then the huge number of dynamic loadable kernel modules.

I would guess that if you should have a chance to make a new kernel to work that is only transfered from another machine, I belive this should be a monolitic kernel, that will mean a kernel where everything is compiled to be in the same module and without those dynamic loadable kernel modules.

I think that if you try to make an upgrade from a 2.2.x kernel to a 2.4.x kernel it would not have worked in real life because there is to much environment differences betwen those two. If it on the other hand were a change from one 2.4.x to another and newer 2.4.x I think it could have worked.

If it were an upgrade from 2.4.x to 2.6.x, I don't know. Actually I believe (without knowing) that such an upgrade could be performed easier than a upgrade from 2.2.x to 2.4.x Beleive that the changes is actually less this time.

If one should like to try a 2.6.0 on a e-smith I belive the way to go would be to first make an installation of a Linux distribution that allready has this kernel and a kernel compilation kit. (Feudora or whatever) Then it should be compiled a new monolitic kernel on this machine. When it first work on this machine, you could make a try to transfer it to the e-smith. (The new kernel image.)

(The double boot prinsiple will then still be a smart and neccessary thing.)  

One things more .. It is refered to the lilo as the bootmanager that has to be configured for a double boot. I belive that newer Linux distributions use Grub bootloader so it is eventually this that have to be set up for a dual boot. Works basicly the same way as the Lilo.

If anybody tries some more or knows some more, please leave a msg !!