Topic: Help! I'm old and can't get Up-graded!

[Paul Miller]

Hi

Here's my problem.  I run e-smith 4.0.1 successfully on a Dell P90 with a Samsung 2.1G drive.  To upgrade I downloaded the 4.1.1 image, burned a CD and, since I want to preserve my IMAP mail, picked the upgrade option which gave an error trap - something about Amanda.  According to RedHat this has to do with tape backup, a feature not available in the 4.0.1 backup I used. I dutifully saved the file and sent it to debug@e-smith.org. I am still functional but frustrated, e-smith 4.0.1 still boots and works fine on the P90 after the failed install.

I then tried a fresh install on a Maxstor 2.1G disk without success.  After trying lots of stuff (see below) I'm thinking maybe the process detailed in the Hard Disk Upgrade Mini How-To as suggested by Linuxnut on this forum may be the only way to successfully move my data to another disk on a faster box sometime before I lose all my brain cells.


Here is more info on my trials & errors so far on my quest for successful 4.1.1 upgrade.
----

I ran backup using an iMac (with enough disk space) but trouble developed - possibly because it has never been defragged. I tried backing up to a PC client but couldn't get it to work even after defragging.  Finally I selected a second separate disk for the backup destination. The PC reported file transfer complete on that attempt so I guess the backup is good I think.  Where in e-smith 4.0.1 can I find successful completion info so I can be sure the backup data is good?

Does the backup process need 2X contiguous disk space to save the file?  If so, should the backup script issue a warning - is this info in the manual or on the bugs page or somewhere on a forum?

When I successfully installed 4.1.1 on the Maxtor 2.1G drive installed in the P90 box I discovered that I could put the disk in a Techmedia 486 box and it boots and apparently runs.  The kernel properly identifies it as a 486.  I also was able to successfully install on the 486 box and move it to the P90 and it appeared to work, recognizing the processors as what they are. It appears the newer kernel is smarter than the old one.

The restore process executed without complaint but doesn't restore the configuration and password databases, user accounts and i-bays.

Also, if I remember right, after running the upgrade on the Maxstor disk on the P90, the P200 no longer recognizes the disk. Also, moving the Samsung 4.0.1 disk from Dell P90 to the Dell P200 results in kernel panic. Moving Maxtor to Dell is worse, it requests I put in boot media. So maybe I have some hardware problems on the Dell P200. However, it still runs W98 with no problem and I checked all the BIOS settings for the different disk.

During installs I have had trouble with old CD drives reading CDs burned on my e-machine using Nero software.  Recording at 1X  sometimes helps.  Swapping the drive for a newer 40X Matsumi drive also helps.  Sometimes a CD can be read on the e-machine but nothing else.  

----

Hopefully someone on this list can understand my ramblings enough to help me sort this out.

What tests or information can I use to isolate this problem?

Is there a repository of e-smith hardware success/failure stories available to newbies like me who are afflicted with the irrational exuberance associated with using cheap old hardware?

For example:

A reliability test (md5sum?) to verify a CD from e-smith AFTER I have burned it?
If hardware works with e-smith 4.0.1 shouldn't it also work with 4.1.1?

Any advice from this forum would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for putting up with my tale of woe.


Too stubborn to quit
Paul Miller

[Alejandro]

A quick test could be a fresh install on a clean disk in The p200 box, and a restore of the backup you made through the web based manager, this will get your box ready, and then you can make an upgrade tho the new version.
I'm not so sure what will happen with the imap mail (cause I use pop server mail so the mail is downloaded from the server an cleaned)

The checksum md5... is in the download place (ftp at e-smith Just besides the iso image you downloaded to burn your cd)

A good advice  could be not to use hardware so close to the lower limit
 there is a list of recommended server settings at http://www.e-smith.org/docs/manual/4.1/hardware.html
I think The P200could be great for a small-mid size network.
but you obviously have a hdd space limitation serious trouble.
this machines accepts disks up to 8 gb
With a P200, 64mb ram, and one (or two, mirrored) 8gb hdd you'll have an excellent small/mid size network server
Your server description is the minumum hardware requirement for a class A server up to 10 clients !..
hope it helps!

[Paul Miller]

Thanks to excellent help from Alejandro, Charlie Brady & Paul Nesbit I have isolated the problem to a bad CD burner.  

Luckily, when trying a workaround from Paul Nesbit, I found a file (upgrade.cfg) that wouldn't open on the CD.  

Mounted the iso image file I had downloaded as a filesystem
# mount /home/e-smith/files/primary/files/e-smith-4.1.1.iso /mnt/loop0 -t iso9660 -o loop=/dev/loop0

Was able to open the update.cfg file from this filesystem that was 'corrupt' on the CD I had burned. Since I couldn't open this update.cfg file on CD on the same machine where I burned it proves there is something wrong with my CD burner.

Guess I need better equipment!


Paul Miller wrote:

> During installs I have had trouble with old CD drives reading
> CDs burned on my e-machine using Nero software.  Recording at
> 1X  sometimes helps.  Swapping the drive for a newer 40X
> Matsumi drive also helps.  Sometimes a CD can be read on the
> e-machine but nothing else.

Thanks to e-smith for helping me figure this out!
pmiller@innercite.com

[Mike Stoddart]

So was the upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1.1 painless in the end, once you fixed the burner problem?

Thanks

[Mike Stoddart]

So was the upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1.1 painless in the end, once you fixed the burner problem?

Thanks

[Charlie Brady]

Mike Stoddart wrote:
 
> So was the upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1.1 painless in the end,
> once you fixed the burner problem?

It it wasn't, Paul should report the problems to bugs@e-smith.com.

FYI, we did test 4.0 to 4.1.1 upgrades, but any custom modifications would have a chance of interfering with a smooth upgrade.

Charlie

[Paul Miller]

Hello,

> Mike Stoddart wrote:
>  
> > So was the upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1.1 painless in the end,
> > once you fixed the burner problem?

I have not yet been sucessful.  I am waiting for new install software from Adaptec to arrive.
   
Charlie Brady wrote:
>
> It it wasn't, Paul should report the problems to
> bugs@e-smith.com.

I will post results when I am successful to this list or problems to bugs.

Meanwhile I have been exploring bootnet (unsupported by e-smith) and have worked around the problem of no readable CD by mounting the iso -o loop but the install still won't complete. I reported that on the forum earlier today at
 
http://www.e-smith.org/bboard//read.php?f=4&i=587&t=541

I am also following the kickstart mailing list on RedHat for clues.  Advice is welcome.

> FYI, we did test 4.0 to 4.1.1 upgrades, but any custom
> modifications would have a chance of interfering with a
> smooth upgrade.

I added stephen noble's rpm's for dialin, had a problem and removed it. I kept another that provides dialup status on e-smith-manager. Without a clean mount I won't be able to go further.

Regards,
Paul

[Paul Miller]

The saga continues over the weekend...

I have worked around the problem of not having a burner:-)

> Meanwhile I have been exploring bootnet (unsupported by
> e-smith) and have worked around the problem of no readable CD
> by mounting the iso -o loop but the install still won't
> complete.

After learning a few things, I used bootnet with the iso file mounted -o loop under a document root directory to install 4.1.1  on a second machine.

Install via bootnet is a great timesaver in more ways than one! Details will follow if there is interest.

I swapped the drive containing the new 4.1.1 installation out of second machine into first machine.

Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> > Mike Stoddart wrote:
> >  
> > > So was the upgrade from 4.0 to 4.1.1 painless in the end,
> > > once you fixed the burner problem?

No.  

The e-smith-manager complained at the end of the restore that it couldn't find the URL.  I took that as a signal the restore was complete but probably bogus. After the restore attempt I look at the post-restore directory in 4.1.1 and find this.

S45proftpd-conf-migrate-variables  
S47conf-telnet                    
S47proftpd-conf                  
S55conf-atalk                    
S55obtuse-smtpd-conf              
S60conf-atalk-startup
S60obtuse-smtpd-startup
S70sshd-conf-startup
S75obtuse-smtpd-restart
S80sshd-reload

When I look at the post-restore directory in 4.0.1 I found this.

S05init-accounts
S10init-passwords
S60conf-atalk-startup
S60conf-startup
S60email-startup
S60ldap-startup
S60proxy-startup
S65conf-other
S90restart-atalk

My 4.1.1 is missing account and password templates!  

Could someone check their 4.1.1 system and let me know if their 4.1.1 post-restore directory matches mine?

I found the i-bays but I ended up with no user, group or ibay acccounts showing in the manager and a brand new passwd file with no entries.  Except for users, groups and the restore templates identified above, restore moved a lot of data to the box.

A clean install should wipe everything out and install a new filesystem, am I right?  So it appears the restore was at least partial.


If the post-install templates above are the correct ones, my next approach is to install 4.0 on this same drive, restore from the PC and then upgrade to 4.1.1.  (I think I tried that more than once but I will do it again. I am such an iterate:-)

Pointers on a how to divide and conquor this darn upgrade problem would be quite welcome;-|

Paul Miller.

[Paul Miller]

Sorry, I meant post-restore on the line below.

Paul Miller wrote:
 
> If the post-install templates above are the correct ones, my

[Charlie Brady]

Paul Miller wrote:

> Could someone check their 4.1.1 system and let me know if
> their 4.1.1 post-restore directory matches mine?

The post-restore event is no longer used. At the end of the restore, the web panel now does:

signal-event post-upgrade
signal-event reboot

There is still a post-restore directory there, but it is unused.

We did this to make it a lot easier to keep "new install then restore" the same as "upgrade". If you think about it, they are close to the same thing. One keeps old user data, and add a new system over the top of it, the other makes a new system, than adds old user data onto it. In both cases it's old data with a new system, and the processing is the same.
 
> I found the i-bays but I ended up with no user, group or ibay
> acccounts showing in the manager and a brand new passwd file
> with no entries.

If the password file and /home/e-smith/accounts are not populated, then either your backup was not complete, or your restore was not complete. Those files are included in the backup and restore. They're not created by post-processing.

> A clean install should wipe everything out and install a new
> filesystem, am I right?

Yes.

> So it appears the restore was at
> least partial.

Yes.

Charlie

[Paul Miller]

Thanks for the quick clarification, you guys never sleep!

Charlie Brady wrote:
>
> Paul Miller wrote:
>
> > Could someone check their 4.1.1 system and let me know if
> > their 4.1.1 post-restore directory matches mine?

> There is still a post-restore directory there, but it is
> unused.
>
> We did this to make it a lot easier to keep "new install then
> restore" the same as "upgrade". If you think about it, they
> are close to the same thing. One keeps old user data, and add
> a new system over the top of it, the other makes a new
> system, than adds old user data onto it. In both cases it's
> old data with a new system, and the processing is the same.

This brings my fear of upgrade to the fore.  I have chosen a 'belt and suspenders' approach to upgrading by installing on a new disk and then restoring to it.

It sounds like you have an upgrade process that does not move the original data on the disk but re-mounts it to the new directory tree.  

If there is little or no chance of failure, is my fear groundless?

I want to verify my backup/restore machine is doing right. If I install 4.0 on the replacement disk do I need to update to 4.0.1 to restore?


Have a nice weekend, we are having snow here in the Sierra foothills.

Best Regards,
Paul Miller