Topic: UK Home / Small Office ISP on SME

[Graham]

Hi !

I was wondering if anyone could relate any experience they have of using
any form of ADSL with SME in the UK ?

For example what SP did you use, what router, prices etc and any tech
details or problems you came across.

I am looking for a low cost solution that will enable SME to run as the
local Web / Mail server, so dont need other SP services other than the
connection / IP address.

I am guessing that its better to pay for fixed IP rather than the likes of
DynDNS. Is it possible to get Nominet to update their records to point
to a new IP, rather than an ISPs servers, once SME has been set up ?

Also if anyone could comment on the Upstream / Downstream ratios
and how the SP might cap those if your Web site starts to get more
attention than anticipated.

Many Thanks in advance of time spent replying !

[Graham]

Also, forgot to mention - the future possibility of setting up VPN
with any equipment specified . . .


Thanks

[Rick Jones]

Graham - as requested ...

Seems to me there are two ways to use SME with ADSL. Either you keep it as the gateway, or you install a router box as the gateway and use SME as a local server. With a suitable router you can pass selected ports through to the SME machine, so it can still handle web, SMTP, etc.

The first way you either use a USB ADSL modem (I believe there is support), or you put in another NIC and use a single-port router in pass-through mode. There's no such thing as an ethernet modem for ADSL, those that claim to be are really "dumb routers", because the device handles the connection and login to the ISP, not the host. (Technically a PCI ADSL modem is possible but AFAIK there are no drivers.) If you set it up that way then all other operation of SME is the same as when it's used as a dialup gateway.

I chose the second route, as I considered it more secure, and not everything depended on one box. I have a couple of incoming ports routed to the server. I got a SAR715 4-port router from Solwise, which now works well, after upgrading to the latest firmware. I found routers to be more "soft" than I expected, they need setting up, configuring, may need firmware upgrades - so it's like another server to look after! Solwise are very good technically, with support and forums, and do a range of gear at good prices.

In retrospect I would have got a single-port router and separate hub/switch, because with them combined, if you need to restart the router you loose the switch for a few seconds, which breaks the LAN temporarily. You also have the flexibility to use SME in either of the configuration methods above with the same hardware. Solwise are now offering a bundle of single-port router with 8-port switch for little more than a 4-port router.

My router provides DHCP and DNS to the LAN so those are turned off in SME. This means that if you configure additional host names in SME they are not resolvable on the LAN because the router doesn't know about them.

My ISP is EZAccess - cheapo outfit. I went entirely on price and took a chance. There have been quite a few problems, though things are now settling down. If you really need reliable service I wouldn't recommend them. Demon are good, and generally get good reports, I've had dialup service from them in the past, and their ADSL prices are competitive.

I use Dyndns, which is fine for my purposes. I don't see the need for a static address. As long as your connection remains up, your IP stays the same anyway. The connection should never drop unless you reset the router. I've had to tweak the dyndns scripts in SME to perform the updates properly though. SME doesn't know when the link is broken and re-established, so doesn't know when the address has to be updated, or what it is.

If you want to assign your own domain name to your own machine, then you can move the name to a service such as Dyndns, ZoneEdit, NoIP, etc. It's then up to you what addresses you assign and what sub-domains you create (www., ftp., mail. etc). It's just a question of changing the tag-holder for your domain, it's painless, all SP's know how this works.

My standard up/down rates are 576/288 (I don't know why we talk about ADSL being 512kbps - it's as if 512 is now seen as more of a "round number" than 500!). These can drop according to the condition of your line though.

I've no idea about bandwidth capping in practice, as I don't use my system for any high-volume use, certainly not as a server.

HTAT

Rick Jones

[David Hardy]

I'm using SME 5.6 on an HP Vectra 933 with 256mb, 60gb hdd and 50gb Onstream ADR SCSI tape drive to give email, webmail, file serving etc etc to a home network with several fixed pcs, some laptops and visiting computers.

I've also got 2 IP cameras and other odds and sods.

ISP is Zen - www.zenadsl.com - with 16 ips using a Draytek Vigor 2600 router - from www.zionmedia.co.uk - mine is the original BT installed ADSL master socket, identical items available from www.clarity.it for a good price.

I was originally using a Vigor 2200 usb with the Alcatel Speedtouch stingray thingy, but wanted to have the multinat features in the 2600.

More details at www.draytek.co.uk.

I started with 1 static IP, upgraded to 8 and then used all of them so upgraded to 16. I have to recommend Zen fully as they have always been able to assist, my upgrade to 8 ips took 2 hours and was very impressive (thanks guys!).

My boring home page is at www.millfarm.net if you want to have a look.

I'm using www.Firevision.co.uk to register my domains and www.zoneedit.com for dns as this gives me ultimate flexibility and a backup smtp feed for peanuts.

I haven't had an enormous number of hits on my server, but imagine that Zen would raise it with me if there was a problem.

You will have to get an A record setup for your server by the people that control your dns - nominet probably aren't the people who that, I think that they only tregulate .uk domain names.

Current prices are:

Zen home adsl, 512/256, 50:1 £29.99 inc vat this month, £27.99 from next month, free setup in April. 1 month minimum contract.
Zen office adsl 512/256, 20:1 £60 + vat this month, £38 + vat from next month, free setup in April. 1 month minimum contract.

Draytek Vigor 2600 router £124 + vat (adsl only)
Draytek Vigor 2600X router £166 + vat (adsl with isdn backup)

A zen username and password lets you connect via modem/isdn or adsl, if you go for multiple IP addresses, you 'll get the same subnet if you dial in over isdn - its proper backup! I've just had to do this for a client who was stiffed by Easynet with an early cancellation - the isdn got them up and running on the new subnet straight away, the new adsl kicked in yesterday evening.

I am a Zen partner so can assist with getting this setup for a slight discount off the first months payment.

Technical:

I have setup my sme with a public IP as its a strong box. Elsewhere I have used multinat and port opening to allow an MDaemon server running on W2K to be secure on the internet.

Using nat mappings can make it hard to access things from inside the lan - my ip cameras were fine from the internet with 1-1 nat, but couldn't be reached on their internet ips from the lan. I have since given them full IP addresses.

Zoneedit.com makes it very easy to maintain your own dns and the changes are frequently live in just a few minutes.

VPN:

I have a wan of 4 vigor 2600s that are configured to IPsec between my home, my client and my clients home workers, it works fine. PPTP to the headoffice using RADIUS from the vigor works fine too. PPTP into the SME works fine. All of my vigors are configured to be PPTP servers and PPTP into them works fine.

Vigor firmware from 2.3.1 up supports firmware upgrades by ftp - perfect for remote sites.

If you want more info, get in touch with me or have look at my other website www.hardy.it

HTH

David.

[Graham]

Thanks for these excellent posts !

[Bill Talcott]

Personally, I would recommend a plain modem or "dumb router" passing the public IP through to the SME. It can still work just as well with a DSL router, but everything will work exactly as described with the SME if you give it the external IP. If you have a DSL router, there are going to be things that have to be done differently. As was already stated, you'd need to forward ports to the SME. I would try to disable the router's DHCP/DNS and use the SME's if I had to choose. This would allow the Hostnames function to work correctly, and you could use the addons for managing DHCP leases and such. VPN stuff usually goes easier when you can connect directly to the server without having the connection NAT-ed. Some applications embed the client's IP right into the data packets, so connections through a NAT device simply won't work.

It's probably almost a non-issue, but I have seen some weird things happen with the retail broadband routers. It's a bit hard to tinker with the code in the firmware if something needs to be fixed. =) I prefer to keep as many functions as possible on the open, easily-modifiable SME.

It really comes down to which features are most important to you and what setup options are available. I myself like to keep as few devices in the chain as possible (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and those devices as accessible as possible. We used to have a Rebel.com NetWinder OfficeServer which was very similar to SME in a little modem-sized box, but with a few more features. When it died, we were totally helpless though. That's when we switched to SME. I guess I see Port Address Translation (NAT with port forwarding) as a bit of a half-baked solution to let several computers share one IP. If you let the server have its own IP directly, it seems to avoid a lot of problems.

[Rick Jones]

Bill remarked:

"It's probably almost a non-issue, but I have seen some weird things happen with the retail broadband routers. It's a bit hard to tinker with the code in the firmware if something needs to be fixed. =) I prefer to keep as many functions as possible on the open, easily-modifiable SME."

Yep, that's what I found - and not what I expected. It seems that right now, ADSL routers are still a work in progress. The router came with a CD which included a later build of firmware than was in the router, and Solwise were already beta testing the next release. This is like playing with another new OS - not what I wanted  It wasn't stable either, but I've now put in the latest firmware (no longer beta) and it actually seems to be reliable. It's not helped by the fact that all this stuff is developed in Taiwan, and UK ADSL is apparently different from everywhere else in the world (thanks a bunch, BT!).

At least Solwise can support the things though, if you get one from a box-shifter I can't see you'll get much help at all!

As I said, a single-port router can at least be switched to non-NAT mode, then the SME used as the gateway. I can do it with the multi-port of course, I just end up with 3 ports I can do nothing with. Separate router and switch is a better way to spend the money.

I need to take the SME down at some point to put in 5.6 (still on 5.5 , after that I might re-configure it as a true gateway. At the moment I can take it offline, and the rest of the LAN can still connect to the 'net. Swings & roundabouts!

Rick Jones

[Huw]

D-link adsl modem, (mind out, it needs the same mac to work) bt as supplier, dyndns for domain name, e-smith does everything else.

Huw

[James Redfern]

I agree with going the Draytek 2600 ADSL modem/router and ZoneEdit DNS route.  They are excellent choices.  I would also suggest you take a look at Nildram as an ISP.  They outshine the competition on a regular basis -- http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=1016 -- and although their sales droids are useless, as usual, their technical people are very thorough and helpful.  You also get a fixed public IP and you can also ask for SMTP inbound to be opened (normally blocked until tested for relaying), and you can set up a reverse DNS PTR record from your control panel.  Check 'em out before you make that decision.

JR.