Topic: Rudeness

[Terry]

They look like fine answers to me.  It's been stated many, many times that 6.x is beta and anything should be brought to the attention of Mitel.  Shell access, fine answer there.  And cross posting is not needed, what's wrong with those answers?

[Byte]

Can someone stop this as this is the sorta thing that spoils it for others



Byte

[Warren Blackbeard]

> enough examples yet?

My 2cents. Ive been using e-smith/SME now for almost 3 years.
My experience is that if you search and read and make notes of what you are doing most problems can be solved.
I have no problem been "told off " if posting to the forum and I haven't bothered to read the Manual , FAQ , Search the contribs / Google.
Sometimes it's fustrating , but in the end it's always more rewarding to
work out the answer for oneself.


These all seem like valid responses !


Warren Blackbeard

[Jens Kruuse]

I'm still waiting for examples of Dan's alledged rudeness.

Cheers,
Jens

[Walter Padgett]

Wheeee!!!!

Just had to pop in and ask is this a flameorum or a forum?

Later

Wally

P.S. From a Biblical perspective, "a soft answer turns away wrath," "a man that hath friends must show himself friendly."

[Scott Smith]

Rudeness and politeness are somewhat subjective perceptions, which are especially easily complicated by language barriers. To wit, I consider it somewhat inflamatory to begin a sentence with "As has been posted innumerable times..." when a simple introductory statement of "All issues with the 6.0 beta should be reported ONLY to smebugs@mitel.com" would have been less provocative. On the other hand, there are a great many who would find the opposite to be true, and another group who would find offense with neither approach, and yet another that would be outraged by anything less than a spoon fed "press this key..." answer. Oh, my! Who is right?

As to the virtues or vices of being "anonymous", we are all anonymous. Anyone can register to this forum with any name they choose. If you feel better talking with someone supposedly named "John Smith" instead of a presence choosing to be known as "Anonymous", then good for you. However, don't be fooled into thinking that a John Smith does in fact exist. Perhaps dear John simply cannot spell Anonymous or belongs to a religion that forbids posting real names in public forums. Or perhaps our fictitious John has the insight to realize that the vaporous intellects seeking to police most public forums are easily deceived.

Can we stop this stupidity now?

Probably not.

[Andy MacDonald]

"Anonymous", I feel that you have just evidenced that you are reduced in your capacity to recognise the difference between rudeness and patient instruction.
I would then caution you to avoid such similar items in future, lest you become offended.
I would recommend that you don't go anywhere near the e-smith user's manual. It is an excellent example of what I find to be patient instruction.
Hence, I see that you may find it a personal affront to your intelligence and would be highly offended by it.
Please try to avoid  reading any e-smith how-to's.
They are generally designed to be read and successfully  implemented by people with a low level of technical understanding.
Personally, I tend to find this level of hand-holding reassuring. It has not yet instilled in me the desire to direct towards my workmates, a fusillade of automatic weapons fire.
So in the interests of public safety, please avoid them at all costs.
Be aware that Dan Brown has actually produced several how to's.  As I personally find them quite informative, I can see how you may see them targetted precisely at producing cataleptic fits of self loathing. It is quite possible that you could implement Dan's Guardian to restrict this sort of offensive material from your internet connection, but this could produce a paradoxical requirement to read a how to.
Maybe it would be best to just avoid  the use of the Internet all together. The risk of receiving benevolent instruction is just too great.

[Sharif George]

Hi All

I have throughly enjoyed reading this thread, It was entertaining, enlightening, Scott you have a wonderful way with words, you should publish!!

But in all seriousness, I am guilty, I do search the forums and contribs and google groups but inexperience means that I do not always get the search terms right.  I have posted several questions on this forum and have recieved loads of outstanding help.  If I am told to RTFM I realise I must of missed it last time round, in other forums I would certainly reply and ask for advice with search terms (I have not needed to do it here yet).  But most of all the RTFM or search tells me that what I want is there all I have to do is find it.

I read Dans postings and the examples and whilst I myself would of not answered that way I could not see the offence.  I had some bloke call me a F*7&-ing imbecile on one board!!

If you are so sensitive then you should consider perhaps buying some books or a support contract with Mitel.  Even get one of these excellent contributers to this site to give you a support contract;-(o

Personally I am here to contribute and the more I learn the more I can contribute.  It seems a great way to go.

Just on the other side though . . . .  To post RTFM or search the groups without any qualification may seem a little harsh to some people, perhaps we could make it search the forum for "Backup2ws" and "Squid"

Just  thought


Sharif

[Sharif George]

See what I mean, this guy Dan seems to be pretty helpful


From the General forum
>>search here on custom dynamic dns (using all dates) would locate some more specific information
                        FROM Dan Brown

[Nikolai Ensslen]

The guy who posted the following in the qmail forum gets the problem to the point in my opinion:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the list... please don't \
email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing this morning

i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you guys are... i've spent \
the last four full days trying to figure out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and \
procmail - mostly because i thought that the open-source community was cool and \
helpful - you know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly written and \
poorly organized

since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my questions... i would \
estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of documentation on the various \
source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera that i have had to install...

you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind helping \
out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the main function of the \
list is to distribute the links to faqs or more documentation

i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to progress to your \
level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy

adios
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ugh?


Nick

[Anonymous]

Andy McDonald, my cover is blown is it, I don't think so.

[tpearsall]

Terry wrote:
> Ever heard the line "Give a person a fish, feed them once.
> Teach a person to fish, feed them forever."?  

I thought the expression was:
"Give a person a fish, feed them once.  Teach a person to fish, and they'll sit in a boat and drink beer forever."

Sorry for the OT, just needed to lighten the conversation.

- Todd

[lapin]

As an experienced (20 years) technical person on many platforms (including VME, and obscure OS), I very often have to help other peoples on solving technical issues.

I very often do not like to give already chewed up answers, because it does not really help nobody. What I do is I try to point to people which way to look, and what to look for. The fish/fishing analogy best can describe the way I like to work.

Diplomacy is also important for me. "RTFM you F** idiot" is not the way I like to answer questions. "What I' do if I were you to solve your problem, is bla bla bla" sounds more like the way I like to work.

I myself read all related manuals several times. I search this forum for any e-smith related issues, I search the internet (google is helpfull), etc...

It is not really the information that is important to know, but how to get it, and being able to get it back quickly.

I haven't posted a lot on this board, because most of my answers are being answered.

Everybody's time is precious. I and many others do not have time to answer the same questions again and again. Some people just fire off oneliner, but the advise is still good. And I think very few posts are rude in this board, very few.

And sorry for any english errors, as english is not my mother tongue. Lapin is not my real name either.

Cheers.

[Andy MacDonald]

If you're not going to use your own name, Anonymous, you could at least spell mine correctly.
There were more replies from Dan along the lines of what you'd quoted. You more than likely are one of the one's he's replied to. I guessed wrong. I was late for work.
So hang me.
While I have and could continue to have some fun at your expense, the evidence in this thread does not bode well for you. Your quotes portray Dan as someone who has a lot more patience than I possess. Other posters have disagreed with you. I've not detected any groundswell of support for you.
One of the greatest pieces of advice that I've been given, is that you can't make everyone happy.
The number of unhappy people here is basically you, and that is an  extremely small percentage. Statistically, you're insignificant. But you'll be pleased to know that you're not an anomaly.
So, now you've been recognised, you can pretty safely be ignored.

So if you've got nothing much else to do, have you thought about franchising the business of being a person who is perenially unhappy?
If you could take over the unhappiness responsibilities of more people, you could corner the market and make a lot of people happier.
There is a whole world out there to be unhappy about. The opportunities to be pissed off, annoyed, unsatisfied, aggreivated are virtually limitless.
Use some M$ products. That will give you a good start.
The thought of you selflessly being unhappy to make others happy makes me feel good already...

[Michiel]

And once again procmail comes to our rescue:

:0
* ^Subject.*\[e-smith Experienced User\] Re: Rudeness
/dev/null

have a nice life,
Michiel