Topic: Specifying a server: how powerful?

[judgej]

I am specifying a new server for a client, and would appreciate any opinions on the type of server needed.

Servers seem to come in two flavours: super-powerful dual Xeon models, designed for running Windows, or much less powerful Pentium 4 800MHz models designed primarily for file serving. There is a dearth of capabilities in between.

The main qustion is: would I see any major gains using 3GHz of dual Xeon power, over a Pentium 4? This assumes all other things being equal: fast disks, plenty of memory etc. I am not sure the answer is as clear-cut as it first sounds, because I suspect much of the power provided by the Xeons would not be exploited by the relatively simple functions of mail and file serving. Am I right thinking that?

Ultimately, file serving, security, e-mail (40+ users) and reliability (high availability) are the important aspects of this server.

Thanks,

-- Jason

[dreamcat]

If you can’t figure this out, you should ask yourself if you should really be offering this kind of service to a client. If you can’t figure it out, I suggest going over to dell and finding a server that is specified for the type of services you intend to run.

First off High Availability (HA) and reliability are two separate things. True HA requires redundant and preferably identical servers that know when the other goes down and automatically takes over the failed servers duty. You can have great reliability without HA.

Now that the flaming is done with, I will answer your question.
Processor speed and multiprocessors aren’t extremely important for file serving and mail serving. Amount of memory and fast hard drives are usually crucial to performance. If you chose to run E-smith, I do suggest a relatively capable processor because you will be running more then just mail and file servers. A P3 or P4 over 1 GHz should perform adequately for 40 users although it might be stressed if you’re talking 40 simultaneously. I would suggest around 1GB of ram, preferably Registered ECC and a motherboard that supports it, two 512MB sticks are usually best for cost effectiveness. I would also suggest either RAID 0+1 or RAID 5. If you want real reliability go with Seagate drives and a 3Ware RAID controller doing RAID 5. It would be best to spend more money on RAID and hard drives then on processor for your intended use.


Just a suggestion:

Tyan Tiger i7501 S2723GNN $285
INTEL XEON 2.0GHz CPU 512K CACHE 400MHz FSB $170
4 X Seagate 160GB SERIAL ATA 7200RPM 8MB CACHE $130 each
3Ware 8506-4 ESCALADE 4 port SATA 150 RAID Controller $360
2x Crucial 512MB DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Registered • ECC $113 each

If you need more hard drive space, 3ware makes an 8 and 12 port raid controller also

[Anonymous]

Thanks, you confirmed much of what I suspected. It was the personal experience I was looking for, rather than raw specifications - i.e. experience of what kind of emphashis gives the most bang for your bucks.

Matching up hardware in a catalogue that can run e-smith is not easy. I've tried installing on many different machines, with very mixed results.

The high-availability stuff is not true 24/7. The client simply cannot afford to wait for parts to be ordered etc. if anything goes pop - they need to get invoices out every day, and orders processed. Hardware RAID, with a few spares standing by (PSU, RAID card, hard disks etc) would be sufficient. Even a daily rsync to a desktop PC may be enough to provide a workaround in the event of the server bursting into flames, and taking the hot and cold spares with it.

As for the flaming: I would feel more stupid *not* asking questions. I'm always going to be offering services that contain some elements that are new to me. It's the only way to keep abreat with the competitors.

Thanks. I'll follow up your hardware recommendations.

-- Jason

[matsk]

In the tech manual page 7-10 has server specs for some different usage categories:
http://edocs.mitel.com/6000_SME_Server/6.0/6000_Tech_Handbook_En/6000_tech_handbook_en.pdf


Extracted from the manual :

Category 1 Server
# of Users Up to 10
Usage Light (minimal use of remote access, file sharing and other disk-intensive activity. No use of webmail, virus scanning or VPNs.)

Hardware Requirements for a Category 1 Server
Architecture PCI-based Pentium-class processor
Processor speed 90 MHz (or better)
Minimum RAM 64 MB
Hard drive IDE or SCSI - at least 1 GB
SCSI adapter
Ethernet adapter


Category 2 Server
# of Users Up to 40
Usage Light (moderate use of remote access, file sharing and other disk-intensive activity)

Hardware Requirements for a Category 2 Server
Architecture PCI-based Pentium-class processor
Processor speed 400 MHz (or better)
Minimum RAM 128 MB
Hard drive IDE or SCSI - at least 6 GB
SCSI adapter
Ethernet adapter


Category 3 Server
# of Users Up to 40
Usage Heavy (heavy use of remote access, file sharing and other disk-intensive activity)

Hardware Requirements of a Category 3 Server
Architecture PCI-based Pentium-class processor
Processor speed 600 MHz (or better)
Minimum RAM 256 MB
Hard drive IDE or SCSI (SCSI highly recommended) - at least 10 GB
SCSI adapter
Ethernet adapter


Category 4 Server
# of Users Up to 500
Usage Heavy

Hardware Requirements of a Category 4 Server
Architecture PCI-based Pentium-class processor
Processor speed 700 MHz (or better)
Minimum RAM 256 MB
Hard drive SCSI - at least 20 GB (2 large SCSI drives using RAID1 strongly recommended)
SCSI adapter
Ethernet adapter

[dreamcat]

those specs from the manual are crap even for outdated crap

[matsk]

Come up with some information that can gain the discussion instead of whinging!

I can agree that the web management interface on a P90 is slow but it's can fullfill the requirement as an 5 people solution for email, file/print. If you add firewall/VPN services, then there are a need for an faster CPU and ++.


/Mats

[Anonymous]

In the tech manual page 7-10 has server specs for some different usage categories:
http://edocs.mitel.com/6000_SME_Server/6.0/6000_Tech_Handbook_En/6000_tech_handbook_en.pdf

Thanks for that link - I didn't realise those details were there.

I think, however, the specs are really describing what you can reasonably get away with, rather than the ideal specs. I've tried installing on 90MHz systems, and five-minute boot times are not funny.

Another problem is that you simply cannot buy servers of those specs these days.

What I was really after is the experiences of people who have put these things in and given them a heavy bashing. Would I regret an 800MHz decision and wish for something more powerful, and would I be throwing £600 down the drain by using dual 2.8MHz Xeon processors?

These faster processors only really come into their own when software is written to specifically take advantage of their features. My guess is that an SME that can run on a simple Pentium 2 would not make use of those features, so would be a waste of money - perhaps not giving me any gain over an 800MHz processor? I just don't know.

-- JJ

[Drifting]

I would suggest you make sure that you spec SCSI disk and Raid controller. IDE just cannot manage the sustained data rates of SCSI. A healthy lump of memory, if you are going down the Dell route (Spit) then see if they will stump up for another 512 on the cheap.

We have one customer that has 130 users, using mostly email, and file sharing, with net access. They are using an IBM X 225 series single zeon, 1GB ram, Raid 5 array 3 disk + 1 hotswap. And it motors !

I agree that the processor is less important than disks, memory and Lan speed. The whole object of a fileserver is to get it in & out a quick as possible.

Regards Drift.

[mapango_joe]

Without bending my small brain, I can think of at least a dozen SME servers I have installed.  Most are as simple fileservers, many as web/mail servers.  I have a customer running sme on a P100, with 32MB RAM(I think).  They are serving a small dos hositality database between 5 PC's.  I have bunches in the AMD K62-300 to 500 class machines as filerservers, for up to 4-7 users and ALL on IDE drives.  All my SME web/mailservers are P-II400 to Celeron1G machines, usually with 128-256MB RAM.

I just thought I'd toss in machines "that I have touched".  I like SME, although I sometimes use "straight" linus for tasks.  

In my town ( a small resort town in Idaho just south of the CA border), You dont sell many dual proc anything.  Most of my medium size business costomers have less than a dozen PC's.  

Anyway, I hope this helps someone.

Chris Curtis

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone - very useful.

Drifter - your description is very handy, just what I needed to know.

-- Jason