Topic: lets go shopping!

[Anonymous]

I am working with a non-profit agency that has a budget of around $1500 to set up a server on an existing peer to peer network.   There will be 8 - 10 computers and users on this network and they do not expect to increase this number in the next few years.   I am reccomending to them that they purchase 1.) a server, 2.) a ups/battery backup unit, 3.) a tape back up drive or other backup device,  and possibly 4.) a 16 or 24 pt. switch to replace the hub they are currently using.  They already have a firwall/gateway/router box.   I have already recommended they  use a SME server and they have agreed it will work for them.  I just want to be sure we get compatiable hardware and wonder if anyone has any suggestions.  

Servers I'm considering so far:
Dell PE400SC
ProLiant ML110
or something from the IBM xSeries 205 line

I am considering the OnStream DI-30 since their is a howto for configuring it with SME.  Does anyone reccomend other tape drives?  UPSs?

Thanks,
John

[k_graham]

Does anyone recomend other tape drives?  UPSs?

With 1 bit of bad tape the backup is useless. They used to be good for about 150 uses before going bad - may have improved.

If you place DVD/writer in a workstation you can set up a backup to run nightly either using backuptows (make multiple 1.5 gig compressed archives - 3 to fit a rewriteable DVD [about 9 gigs of data]) from the sme server or create a batch file on the workstation using Winrar to do same thing. Disk cost $2.00 splurge buy 1 for every night of week and mid month and end month, will probably cost less than 1 tape.

Ideally keep a even and odd day rar backup on the workstation. Odds are you will be able to restore from these if the server ever has a problem. You back up to the workstation at night and next morning pop in a dvd and write to disk.

During a restore the files have the correct attribute read only or read/write restored as well. This is preferable to a straight copy to CD of files as then the files all end up as read only.

Ken

[Reinhold]

John,

Since I support "non profits" myself   ...

Let's rather start with the basics:
---------------------------------------------------
We know now: Your budget is 1500 (us)$
8 users  -  and lets assume this doubles at max
You recommend: switch, ups, tape backup

BUT WHAT DOES YOUR NP-ORG DO?  - pro bono deskwork or heavy database & storage...?

Some thoughts:
* 16port switch (= double current need) seems ok and is l.t. 100bucks - buy!
* ups (?)... do you have such unstable mains? - Make it a "breaker only for the server" first...
___IF still "YES", buy a ups with sme support that will last for just a few minutes while SME cleanly autoshuts.
___SME has built in ups-software. For locally available brand with easy install, search this forum ...
* Tape backup, like k_graham says, can be "virtual backup" and NOT cheap ...
___IMnsHO it all depends on the type/amount of data you have to save. RAID1 in SME is "the cost of a 2nd HD".
___(and installation is as easy as answering a question or two at install).
___Then you could backup once a week/once a month to DVD.
___If you have to backup Gigabytes of Data (where you will not be happy with your budget anyway) think "removable HD".


STAY WITH STANDARD HARDWARE - DELL-POWEREDGE is ... a PROLIANT (mostly) isn't.
Remember: Your local PC-Shop may be willing to support too...and for gateway/server 1GHz is quite OK!

Here's the 400SC Specs:
http://www.dell.co.yu/servers/PE400SC/pe400sc.pdf
they are a good guidance for a search.

* buy at least 256MB RAM
* buy the/a 120Gb HD (it's fast too)
...and DO USE GOOD NETWORK cabling .-)
...no mouse ...and a loaner for keyboard, graphics card and monitor are sufficient if the Bios supports that.

Last not least: SME is quite up to the task - go for it.

...give us more data - and you get more thoughts  

Regards
Reinhold

[Souley]

Hi
I ve setup an IBM x200's series with 2*120 scsi drive
MGE pulsar elipse premium UPS with Mge Software

With no problems

Regards
Souley

[Reinhold]

Souley,

Latest I looked
(yesterday )
...your "2*120Gb SCSI harddisks"
......would eat up 2/3 of his budget  

Enjoy
Reinhold

[Souley]

Hi Reinhold
I just explained what experience i got with the X200 series

It will work great to with 2*120 IDE ATA 133 & 8 mb of cache

Best regards
Souley

[jbillings]

The non-profit is fairly intense, works with a lot of clients, they do job training type stuff, helping people develop resumes but also pretty thorough case management. They have a couple monster Access databases that would be stored on the server, I just left a message with my contact for this agency and I am going to get a better estimate on how much data we are talking about.

I've been looking at this document:

ttp://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/tape.html

Section 16.2 describes some compatible IDE Tape Drives. Section 16.1 makes it sound like practically all SCSI tape drives are supported.

The SCSI thing is a good question, because of price and lack of expertise I am leaning toward ide stuff. We could possibly afford and SCSI based server and tape drive, as their is some flexibility (we could get a few hundred more) and also IBM will possibly discount the equipment. Would it be worth the effort to pursue it?

I have used sme on a ThinkCenter a50p workstation, and the only glitch was that 5.6 could not detect the nic, but 6.0 did. Since I am going to be using this as a straight up file server, I may use the latest contribs.org version. What version of SME are you using on the 200 series?

Thanks for your input.

[Reinhold]

John,

Access databases - even "monster" type - will be less than 2 Gbyte each  
...I sure believe any one of their's would easily fit on a CD  -PROVE ME WRONG-
...and that would take care of "good backup-bookkeeping-practices"

If your local IBM Rep is good it's worth pursuing ...
...but considering "the aftersales" I'd rather think of a knowledgeable local PC-Seller - STOCK PC STUFF I mean.
...now what's wrong with ide stuff where replacement can be bought around the corner ? SCSI equipment isn't _that_ far ahead in speed of 7200er 8MB cache IDE HD's and DVD-SCSI_Burners are hard to come by

SCSI is fine (congrats Souley ) but with your budget ?
even a few 100 more ??  
...setup however is easier than you seem to think!

Use the latest contribs SME-iso or latest e-smith-iso
... unless you have a need for any of the addon rpms they are baggage at least, risk at worst.

Regards
Reinhold

[Souley]

The hardware you would by depend on how many $ you have budget of course
Reinhold i was speaking about scsi aslo because there is a best technical support than for IDE HDD's,
That right i'm working for a big compagny with 3500 office in Europe (that's why me only have scsi based servers).
IDE is fine you're right Reinhold

jbillings i'm running a 6.0.1 custom sme server
The scsi card had been detected very well on my x200


Best regards
Feel free to ask question if you need
Souley

[Boris]

I am working with a non-profit agency that has a budget of around $1500 to set up a server on an existing peer to peer network.   There will be 8 - 10 computers and users on this network and they do not expect to increase this number in the next few years.   I am reccomending to them that they purchase 1.) a server, 2.) a ups/battery backup unit, 3.) a tape back up drive or other backup device,  and possibly 4.) a 16 or 24 pt. switch to replace the hub they are currently using.  They already have a firwall/gateway/router box.   I have already recommended they  use a SME server and they have agreed it will work for them.  I just want to be sure we get compatiable hardware and wonder if anyone has any suggestions.  

Servers I'm considering so far:
Dell PE400SC
ProLiant ML110
or something from the IBM xSeries 205 line

I am considering the OnStream DI-30 since their is a howto for configuring it with SME.  Does anyone reccomend other tape drives?  UPSs?

Thanks,
John

Dell PE400SC is a great choice for this. 128 or 256 MB of RAM will be enough. It will probably cost you about $500

APC Back-UPS ES series with USB cable is not too expensive and good for the job. 725VA will be another $100

Switch lets say $100-150

Rest of the money you will spend on the backup solution. You may consider removable external hard drive(s) attached to one of the workstations as an option. With prices on the hard drives like they are today it may cost you less then a tape drive with set of tapes and better performance.

[daryl]

Looks like others have tried the Dell PE400SC.  I'm courious about recent experiences...success/nightmare with the server.

The IBM x205 was a great server but the replacement x206 looks like trouble with SATA.

[Boris]

Dell PE400SC is always good. Never had a problem with them.

[marcnz]

I have installed a SME 6.5 server and the backup system on specified folder never work (more than 11GB). So to backup for the server itself, I guess the tape drive is required, especially if you have to plan for desaster recovery (fire, flood, etc...). The bakup media should of course not remain on site, unless in a fireproof safe, which exclude backup on the client workstations.
I am also trying to find out exactly what IDE tape drives could be used and compatible with the old kernel on those SME servers.
I don't live in the US, so it is difficult to discuss second hand tape drive. New ones in my place cost around US$1,100 mark. Out of the required budget, sorry.

[irian]

I too work for a non-profit organisation.

I usually install on an older machine.
Starting with a PIII-500, 512RAM.
Tha faster the better.
Install two large IDE Harddisks and mirror these.

Some systems have an older DAT-streamer (gifts) and backup (daily) the most important data to tape.
One location I configured backup to a portable USB Drive. (Use 2 so that you have off-site backup).
Another location has a second linux-server in an adjacent building that stores a backup via rsync.

MdV

[torrestech]

With that sort of budget a tape backup is probably not the best. I would go with 2 standard IDE drives with software mirror and either backup to Workstation or to external USB hard drive. Format the drive with ext3, mount it somewhere and do daily backup with rsync. works well for me. IDE hard drives are cheap. With 2 external drives you can take one home every night for less than half the cost of a tape backup.