Topic: Backups

[Jen]

I'm thinking about getting e-smith for a client that can't afford an NT server.  Just wondering about a few things, the most important of which is backup.

If we install a tape drive (DDS-3 or Travan), how hard will it be to get e-smith to work with it?  Also, can backups be set so that non-technical users can use it? For example, with other clients, I've had BackupExec running on NT, and all users have to do is put tapes in sometime during the day and take them out the next day before putting in the next tape.  Logs get e-mailed to me. Can something like this be setup using e-smith?

Also, can e-smith act as a PDC for Windows clients? I'm also interested in running login scripts if possible.

Thanks!

Jen

[Des Dougan]

Jen,

E-smith supports a couple of Travan drives - the makes/models are in the online manual, I believe. Backup is similar to your NT example - it's set up in the e-smith manager and emails the user in advance to mount the tape. It also emails the results afterwards (I suggest you configure it to be sent to a real user rather than the admin user).

It can also be set up as a PDC - the manual has more detail, as would a search of the phorums - it comes up fairly regularly.

Des Dougan

[Bruce]

I have found a two step approach that is both inexpensive and reliable, without tape.

1.  Multiple copies of the e-smith install CD (just to play it safe).

2.  Use the e-smith-manager backup utility.  I have found that this allows me to backup to a PC hard drive or a CDRW.  Since MOST of the backup devices for Linux are still SCSI, and SCSI is much more expensive than IDE, this is an excellent alternative.

3.  I intentionally installed my e-smith configuration on a separate computer to test this setup, and EVERYTHING, including the configuration settings, restored properly.

[Mark Leman]

>2. Use the e-smith-manager backup utility. I have found that this allows me to
>backup to a PC hard drive or a CDRW.

I quick though : as IDE drives are so big and cheap now and most PC have a more space than they need, it would be good to automate the 'backup to desktop' option to backup the e-smith server to a local PC share automatically. It could even rotate the backup files. Saves having a tape drive for users who are unlikely to remember to change tape. A success/failure email could also be provided.

Unfortunately a bit beyond my Linux knowledge at the mo, but I'll keep learning
 
>3. I intentionally installed my e-smith configuration on a separate computer to
>Test this set-up, and EVERYTHING, including the configuration settings, restored
>Properly.

I was amazed recently when I plugged a spare hard drive, which had previously had e-smith installed, in to a new motherboard and it booted fully and only needed the network card specifying before it worked fully. Try that with NT

Mark Leman.

[Gene Cooper]

Thoughts from (another) support pro:

These are only opinions...

1) Backup is a critical business function.

2) Anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.

3) QIC/TRAVAN sucks.  (I don't want to hear it!)

4) DAT is good, but DLT is best.

5) If you can't take the backup off-site, it sucks.

6) The GFS (grandfather/father/son) is the ONLY rotation scheme worth having.  20 tapes = 1 year.

7) If your backup administrator can't change the tapes and check the logs daily, fire them.

Buy tape drives large enough to (at least initially) back up the entire server on one tape, if at all possible.

9) Backup is problematic.  Period.  Spend a little more money up front to resolve future support problems.  This goes for Netware, NT, Win2K, Linux, SCO ...

10) SCSI is best.  With hardware compression, generally.

11) Compatability may very well be more important than you think.  Start with DAT, stick with DAT.  And watch the compression schemes!

I support many small/medium businesses.  Though they are all unique, most need the same backup solutions.

[Jeroen]

Only have a small home server so.....
I have a question, would it also be possible to put a second HDD into the e-smith box and use that as a backup device?

Jeroen

[Gene Cooper]

Jeroen wrote:
>
> Only have a small home server so.....
> I have a question, would it also be possible to put a second
> HDD into the e-smith box and use that as a backup device?

It looks to be fairly straightforward, though I haven't tried anything of the sort.  

You should be able to simply edit the flexbackup.conf file and specify the extra hard drive device instead of the tape drive.  You probably want to use the templates-custom method...

/dev/hdb is the device name for a secondary IDE drive on the primary IDE channel.

This could be useful to many if you'd post your results (or do a HOWTO...).

G

(snippet from my flexbackup.conf)

# Device to backup to - non-rewinding version please!
#
# Examples:
#    Linux SCSI: /dev/nst0       Linux IDE: /dev/nht0
#    Linux ftape: /dev/nqft0     FreeBSD SCSI: /dev/nrsa0
#
# If a directory, archive to files in that directory rather than a device
#
$device  = '/dev/nst0';

[Jeroen]

Thank you very much Gene....I'll give it a go as soon as I can find some spare time.

Jeroen

[James Sebok]

Gene,

Great thoughts on backups.

Do you know where I can find details on the grandfather/father/son rotation scheme you mentioned?

Thanks Gene Cooper wrote:
>
> Thoughts from (another) support pro:
>
> These are only opinions...
>
> 1) Backup is a critical business function.
>
> 2) Anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.
>
> 3) QIC/TRAVAN sucks.  (I don't want to hear it!)
>
> 4) DAT is good, but DLT is best.
>
> 5) If you can't take the backup off-site, it sucks.
>
> 6) The GFS (grandfather/father/son) is the ONLY rotation
> scheme worth having.  20 tapes = 1 year.
>
> 7) If your backup administrator can't change the tapes and
> check the logs daily, fire them.
>
> Buy tape drives large enough to (at least initially) back
> up the entire server on one tape, if at all possible.
>
> 9) Backup is problematic.  Period.  Spend a little more money
> up front to resolve future support problems.  This goes for
> Netware, NT, Win2K, Linux, SCO ...
>
> 10) SCSI is best.  With hardware compression, generally.
>
> 11) Compatability may very well be more important than you
> think.  Start with DAT, stick with DAT.  And watch the
> compression schemes!
>
> I support many small/medium businesses.  Though they are all
> unique, most need the same backup solutions.

[Art Emtage]

automate the 'backup to desktop'
My goal is to find a way to do this.  With Zero qualified staff available on a regular daily basis this option is better than the status quo.
Is PHP an option here?  Comming from a Windoze VB  ASP background I'm new to unix shell scripting.

Art

[Scott Smith]

Art Emtage wrote:
>
> automate the 'backup to desktop'
> My goal is to find a way to do this.  With Zero qualified
> staff available on a regular daily basis this option is
> better than the status quo.
> Is PHP an option here?  Comming from a Windoze VB  ASP
> background I'm new to unix shell scripting.

Sounds like what you want to automate is on the desktop side, not the server side. If you automate the server side, how are you going to get the connection to the desktop system? Use VB or ASP to create an app on the desktop that will interact with the existing web manager panel.

Scott

[Art Emtage]

Scott Smith wrote:
>
> Art Emtage wrote:
> >
> > automate the 'backup to desktop'
> > My goal is to find a way to do this.  With Zero qualified
> > staff available on a regular daily basis this option is
> > better than the status quo.
> > Is PHP an option here?  Comming from a Windoze VB  ASP
> > background I'm new to unix shell scripting.
>
> Sounds like what you want to automate is on the desktop side,
> not the server side. If you automate the server side, how are
> you going to get the connection to the desktop system? Use VB
> or ASP to create an app on the desktop that will interact
> with the existing web manager panel.
>
> Scott
Thanks Scott,
I'll try that.

Art

[Gene Cooper]

James Sebok wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> Great thoughts on backups.
>
> Do you know where I can find details on the
> grandfather/father/son rotation scheme you mentioned?

Hi James,

I've posted an explanation on my web site.  
http://www.sonoracomm.com/sonoracomm/html/Backup.htm

HTH,

G

[Des Dougan]

I posted a How To earlier this week for what it sounds you're looking for. It's on the e-smith site under the Contributed How To link.

Good luck,

Des Dougan

[Art Emtage]

Thanks Des,
I now have a daily backup operating thanks to your instructions.  
Before receiving your post I was working on a client- side solution using VB and part of e-smith's perl "backup" script.  It works OK except for the MySql part, likely due to permissions issues.  I think It still might have some use in a complete failure requiring a re-install since 'Restore from Desktop" is available after a re-install while flex backp to disk would require the customization process first.

Art