Topic: Not sure of sme license?

[samrusso]

Hi (tried in General phorum but to no avail)
I've been using sme since the early e-smith days. In the last year or so many schools I work with have been using various services like squid,horde mail etc. Also they have been asking about purchasing some of the mysql/php/ applications I have developed (most of these were developed for free - but now their requests require extensive planning and software development - enough to warrent purchasing the applicaton- and their happy to do this).
To make the installation easier for them I utilised the schools licensing of ghost by 'ghosting' sme with appropriate ibays and functions enabled. This is done via a simple bootable CD with image installed. They then need only put in the IP address, find the NIC and their up and running.
In regard to my new application they want to purchase off me. Am I allowed to:

1. Put my app on the SME 'ghosted' CD?
If this is allowed I would of course make sure they understand that the sme server is under GPL they would then have to download a license file after the install to activate my web based application. This would seperate the install with the purchasing of the license. ie after the boot cd my app is not able to be run unless a license file is purchased. The inactive app's binary code is on the server in a inactive state.

2. If 2 is not allowed, could I continue with the ghosted 'SME' with no app on it and then they download the entire app with the license file.

3. Of course if I'm not allowed to do 1 and 2 I will build my own server and ghost it - no attachment with sme. BUT THE PROBLEM IS !!!!:
They actually like the other services sme offers e.g webmail. So in actual fact I'm in a round about way promoting the sme server! Of course all sme services have nothing to do with the licensing of my software.
If I cannot do 1 and 2 then the schools will only get a CD with fedore,apache,mysql, and php (much too much time needed to maintain all the other services sme offers)

BTW how do you pronounce sme ( as the letters s m e OR sme as in hooks offsider in peter pan?)

regards
sam

[RonM]

Hi Sam - I saw your question before but was uncertain what to answer. I wanted to at least respond, however ignorant my reply I should say first that this is in no way an 'official' answer - just my own personal opinion.

SME Server is released under the GPL. There is more info available here:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
and here:
http://www.fsf.org/

It sounds as though you might also need to investigate the licenses for php & MySQL:
http://www.php.net/license/
http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/opensource-license.html

Since only you know the details of exactly how your code interacts with the rest of the system, only you can really decide how each of these licenses affects your particular situation. If you have any doubts, you should consult an experienced attorney.

All that said, it seems to me that there is one relatively straightforward way to address these issues: release your own code under the GPL and make the source code publicly available. I believe all of these licenses explicitly allow this (and are, in fact, designed for that purpose).

But, please, don't take my word for it. Please study these licenses, obtain competent advice, and make your choices with the full knowlege of what you're doing. Good Luck!

Whups, sorry - I always say ess-emm-eee

[tag]

Hi Sam,

I think this is a very interesting area of discussion which affects us all so here is my 2 cents, for what it is worth.

My understanding of the GPL is that you can incorporate GPL code into your project, add value to the code and charge for your work.  I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that we should all be so philanthropic that we starve!  However, your own code (the value add) should also be distributed under the GPL, which means that it is free to all and, as such, can be copied, modified and redistributed by anyone who feels the need.  The upside to this is that we all benefit from our co-operative efforts.  

Many companies, including my own, take a slightly different view.  It is still based upon the idea that the code should always be distributed freely to anyone who wants it but there is also the understanding that source code on its own is only half the story.  Whoever wishes to incorporate it and offer it to a third party will almost certainly (if there is money involved) have to offer to support it, and that is quite a different matter.  

For our part (and I know of many companies who operate as we do) we add value to the code (which often costs us a great deal in salaries, test equipment and so forth) yet we still distribute it for free, under the GPL, to anyone who wants to download it. Similarly, our paying customers  are not charged for the code. However they are charged for our support and for the extensive documentation we produce to go with the system we deliver (which, by the way, is usually a complete platform comprising both hardware and software).  Effectively, this means that we distribute an unsupported "free" version under the GPL and we also offer that same version with a support contract to those who require it. We firmly believe that free distribution is in our interest because we, in turn, will have access to any enhancements which are made to our code by the GPL community, which is, after all what the whole GPL movement is about.

Finally, as the previous commentator suggests, you should check any licensing fees you may have to pay if you are incorporating any code which has been distributed under the lesser GPL.  Often these are "free for personal use" but chargeable for corporate or reseller use.

In any event, you should still speak to your lawyer but I believe that so long as you freely distribute your enhancements/modifications under the GPL then you are quite within your rights to charge for your efforts.

Best

Tag

  [/i]

[samrusso]

Are you suggesting that if a developer of say a mysql backed application who
1. Does not in any way alter the mysql code in any way
2. Uses a front end scripting lang. like php
3. Sets up tables and uses mysql to do this

cannot distribute their application without disclosing the source code? ie only under GPL.

I thought GPL meant that if I change the source code of mysql or php proper, then it is in this scenario I  **HAVE TO** show my source code with the changes. Nothing to do with what I'm actually doing with mysql or php just the mysql source code and the php source code.
THerefore if someone develops apps and does not change the source code of these things (mysql,php) then your OK to keep your source code to yourself and charge for your app.

I have had legal advice on this and was told what I just mentioned above.
Could anyone (not speculators) shed any more light on this as I do need to know if I were given correct advice

regards
sam

[adinobro]

Basically the Distrobution is distrobuted under a GPL license.

What does that mean?

Well not much. A distrobution is nothing more than a collection of applications. The important thing is what those applications are licensed under. For instance so of the application are BSD, GPL, Apache etc. So you could add your application this would then make it like SuSe Pro etc. Now if your linking to the SME code it's a different story then you'd have to make your code GPL (but since it could run an another server it doesn't sound like it). Don't worry about your web app. It's not affect by the GPL etc. It's not link in any way.

What would I recommend?

Well you can do 1, 2 or 3. They are all perfectly valid just the same as if you got windows and did the same thing. (The GPL is just a license not a contract)

Personally I would do 2 because that means you don't have to maintain your own custom version. Setup a two line script to install your app (this also make it easy to move to something else later on).

wget http://yoursite.com/script.sh
sh script.sh

Done. In the script it can create ibay (sme command line), download files, create a database etc.