Topic: SME 7.0 development environment and kernel sorce code

[arne]

Will try to intsall Asterisk on SME 7.0 from source code to see how this will perform.

I guess I need some develoment environment and the kernel source code.

How do I install that ?


Best reg Arne.

[CharlieBrady]

I guess I need some develoment environment and the kernel source code.

How do I install that ?

Install CentOS 4.

[arne]

Hmm ..

The idea was to try to install Asterisk at SME 7.0 from source code in such a way that it (if possible) should not affect the ordinary SME server functions or configuration panels/controls at all.

As things are running at my place just now I have a SME 6.0.1 that does the job perfect and without a problem. Then I also have a smaller PC at top of this one that contains a Astlinux that also runns perfect (from a 32 MB flash RAM) and also without a proplem. (Of course I also have a 7.0 R2, but that's still for testing.)

The idea was just to build these two servers into one box, while still maintaining the best properties of both systems.

I have done a number of different Asterisk installations to the basic SME server setup, but none of them have performed as well as the SME box and Astlinux box separately.

Thats the reason that I would like to try a Asterisk implementation that is quite different from those I have tested before.

Like the name "Linux" also the name "Asterisk" can contain so much different software with so different properties. "Linux" can be a bootable floppydisk with not much more than a Linux kernel or Linux could be a huge installation consisting of Gigabytes of software with all kind of functions.

I think it would be interesting to try out a Asterisk installation on SME 7.0 R2 that is designed to be "minimalistic" in such a way that there will just be a few extra processes running in such a way that they should not mess up or have any impact (if possible) on the existing Server functions and configuration systems.

On the Asterisk home page they say something like: Never use precompiled installations or rpm's. Allways do the installation from source code that is compiled on that shall run the Asterisk server.

I don't know why it eventually is like that, but I'm courios to try to make such a minimalistic Asterisk server on the SME 7.0 R2 to see, as an experiment, how these server functions can live together, when done this way.

What I have seen from running a Asterisk server like Asterix@home is that if that, such a big and complex server installation, actually can pull out a bit of memory and processor power. Also there is a rather lot of things that can and will go wrong. The reliability of the A@H is, as I will see it, affected by its compexity. If one try to implement A@H on the SME server this just can not work (well) as this will give a "software mix" with just "to much of everything".

On the other side a Asterisk installation that is built from a more "minimalistic approach" might be able to coexist with the orginal SME 7.0 functions.

Rather like something like "a fully integrated information systems that handle standard internet servers and telephony" it could be interesting to try do do the rather oposite "two different server systems in one box with no integration at all, running on the same hardware in such a way that reliability, system integrity and performance is maintained from both systems.  

If the "Asterisk ad on" to the SME server vere something "very light and very easy" with some of the "more minimalistic" properties of the Astlinux http://www.astlinux.org , it would not surprice me at all if SME 7.0 and Asterisk could live well togeteher.

I know that there is Asterisk RPM's for the SME server, but none of them have so far given properties that can match Atlinux when I have been testing them. (The testing might not have been the proper one, but that's just how it worked for me.)

So I think it would be interesting to try to intsall a compilator, the kernel sourcecode, and what other things that might be needed to compile tha Asterisk source code on the SME 7.0 box itself.

If it's impossible, at least I will try to find out why it is impossible

Best reg Arne.

[arne]

I have now installed the system development environment pluss kernel sourcecode and made a "minimum Asterisk sourcecode installation" on a Clarkconnect 3.2 Home.

I think it looks like it is true that such a minimum source code installation can work nice together with the server function, but for the certain problem I have with one certain Asterisk function (the DISA function) problem just repeated. (But now I know for sure that it is not a problem related to the SME server or any SME rpm.)

Still it would be very interesting to have it as a option to install the Asterisk server function from original Digium sourcecode on the SME server.

According to the Digium installation guide these are the requirements:

* Linux Kernel v2.4 or higher (with sources installed)
* Development Environment with GCC (2.92 or higher)
* Concurent Version System (version 1.1 or higher.)

I guess it should be possible to implement these items on a SME 7.0 R2 ?

[JonB]

Why? The Asterisk RPM's are already available for SME7. You can install them with or without the SAIL rpm.

Jon

[arne]

Well it seems like that the problem I had that I thaught vere related to the smeserver-asterisk rmp was mainly related to my internet connection and not to the RPM.

But to be able to compare things like performance and reliability there need to be alternatives.

Some books and literature about Aterisk claims: Allways install from sourcecode never use rpm's .. I can not tell if this is reasonable or not without testing and comparing.

It's for instance a rather big difference betwen Asterisk@home with some gigs of data (I believe) and the Astlinux that fills less than 30 MB including underlaying Linux operating system. My impression is that Astlinux can perform bether, it can handle more trafic (??), and it more reliable.

The only way to find out and to know is to test it out.

I think that a source compiled Asterisk installation on the SME 7.0 R2 would be an rather interesting alternative to try out.

So if I only vere able to meet those requirements for my SME 7.0 R2:

* Linux Kernel v2.4 or higher (with sources installed)
* Development Environment with GCC (2.92 or higher)
* Concurent Version System (version 1.1 or higher.)

Best reg Arne

[CharlieBrady]

Some books and literature about Aterisk claims: Allways install from sourcecode never use rpm's ...

Can you provide a reference for that? I'd be interested to see what their reasoning might be.

On the face of it, it's absurd advice, since rpms are built from source code.

[JonB]

Arne,

The A@H .iso is over 400MB but that also includes the Centos base. The actual A@H tarball is only 50MB. That includes the asterisk sounds which are an extra on astlinux plus a lot of extra apps like Flash Operator Panel, CDR recording etc that do not need to be installed.

The amount of traffic that an asterisk box can handle is determined by

1 - The bandwidth available
2 - The cpu size
3 - the codecs being used (the codecs and cpu tie in as the codecs can be cpu intensive)

You appear to be trying to re-invent the wheel here.

As Charlie has said the smeserver-asterisk rpms are compiled from a stable source.

If you want to compile from the asterisk CVS daily builds to get bleeding edge technology then be prepared to have an unstable asterisk system.

Take a look at the latest A@H tarball. It has a SME7 install script. That script installs, via yum, the development enviroment needed to compile asterisk from the CVS.
Use that as a starter.

Jon

[arne]

Thanks for the last info. It did not work for me to install the neccessary environment to compile the asterisk sourcecode. (At least it did not work this night.)

On the other side the precompiled Selintra rpms now went into the SME 7.0 R2 without a problem.

It's difficult to say something to sure about performance, because I dont have enough equipment to test it, but what I can se is that one call with a precompiled asterisk installation on SME 7.0 R2 gives an aditional proccessor load of 0.7-0.8 pst. (Pentium III 800)

With a asterisk installation compiled on the pc the aditional processor load for one single call is approx 0.3 pst.

Using the Astlinux 4 simultanious calls givs a load of 0.1-0.2 pst on the same PC.

Those are not much schientific or presice observations, but when you se it again and again, you actually start to believe that there is a diffrence.

The Astlinux have never had one single stop or one single crash. A@H crashes now and then without any clear reson. Troubleshooting can be difficult because of its complexity.

I used to run A@H at SME server before and I think this is a much to complicated solution with to many things that can go wrong not to mention the problem to get all updates syncronized.

When it comes to the question where I have seen books are recomending Asterisk installation from source code, I have never seen that there have been given any reason, but I think I have seen it more than one place. At the moment I do not remember where.

The book that I have used the most is this free and downloadable one:
http://voipspeak.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=2

This book does not actually say that Asterisk should be installed from source code, but on the other hand it only mention source code installation as an alternative.

By the way Astlinux is not a sourcode installation, its just a very small Linux distro with Asterisk on it (All together 28 MB that can run from flash memory and ram = reads flash memory on start up and runs from ram with file system on flash locked.)

I might be wrong about processor load, etc. Its just my impression from using simple commands like top and ps.

Best reg Arne

[arne]

JonB ->

Thanks a lot for the info about the install_sme.sh script !

It looks like it needs just small modifications before it can be used to prepere for the installation of the original Digium Asterisk source code.

Will give it a try as soon as I got time ..

Best reg Arne.

[arne]

CharlieBrady ->

You were right. There were not any significant difference between a sourcode installed and a rpm installed Asterisk server.

The properties were much the same.

Still I think it were very interesting do do a sourcode installation on the SME 70 R2 server.

The only problem during the installation of the development environment were that the SME 7.0 R2 would not accept the openssl-develop module.
If you had made an alternative openssl-development module that checked dependency against the modified sme variant of the openssl module, I believe the "upgrade" to a "development enveronment" on the SME 7.0 R2 could be only a small shell script.

When it comes to Asterisk servers and effeciency etc, my personal impression is that when a computer and a operating system is optimized for telephony only and when it has a few processes running only (like the Astlinux) it can work more effecient than a more general server with typically 10 times more processes and 10 more stored data to handle.

On the other hand I belive that the Asterisk server itself will often not be the restricting part of the telephony system. I red for instance a test were Xorcom claimed that they had tested with more than 100 simultinous calls on a Via C3 1000 installation. I think my internet connection would breake down long before the caller no 100 made his call.

http://www.xorcom.com/

http://www.xorcom.com/ts-1/test-results.html

I will wait and see, but I expect my Asterisk sourcode installation on the SME 7.0 R3 will run quite stable without affecting the other server functions in a negative way. (At least I hope so.)

By the way, thanks for a great job with "the new SME server" !

Best reg Arne.