Topic: Dual Hard Drives

[Agent86]

I'm not sure if this is the correct location for this question ?

Anyhow I know that SME has Raid support but what about just plugging in to IDE hard drives of the same size and model ?

One as master, one as slave , can these be mirrored so that I have a backup if one drive fails ?

Please advise

Thanks

[byte]

Snip from the manual...

4.3. Hard Drive Configuration
SME Server 7 introduses a new feature – Automatic configuration of Software RAID 1, 5 or 6. RAID is a way of storing data on more than one hard drive at once, so that if one drive fails, the system will still function. In the case of RAID 6, two drives can fail and the system will still function. We highly recommend that at a minimum you utilize 2 identical drives in your sytem to take advantage of the redundancy provided by the RAID configuration.

[pfloor]

Mirroring drives in the same IDE channel (eg. hda and hdb) is not desirable.  If that channel goes out, you may loose both drives.  Also, performance will suffer slightly.

The preferred method is to use the master location on each IDE channel (eg. hda and hdc).  This will ensure that if you loose one channel, the other will still operate.  It will also give you the best performance.

In 2 drive setups I always do this:

IDE 1 Master - Drive1
IDE 1 Slave - CDROM
IDE 2 Master - Drive 2

[Agent86]

This is very helpful Thanks

What will happen now that I have a hard drive on my at IDE primary master, and then hook up my IDE secondary master

Will SME automatically start to sync the data on both drives ?

Or is there some other steps I need to take ?

Please advise
Thanks

[Agent86]

Can someone please confirm this subject further regarding IDE drives

I currently have one in the system and desire to plug another in as secondary master as directed in this post ?

What must be done so the drives sync identically so if one fails the other continues to operate ?

Please advise
Thanks

[pfloor]

It should work automagically as long as you didn't originally install with the "noraid" option.

-Shut down the machine
-Install drive as master on the second IDE channel (hdc)
-Boot up
-Log on as admin to get to the admin console
-Go to #5 Manage disk redundency

It should tell you there if the drives are syncing up.  Don't turn off the server until the sync is complete or it will start from the beginning again.  When it is done syncing it will show a good working raid1.

If it doesn't work then file a bug report but I think all the raid issues have been fixed.

[Agent86]

It should work automagically as long as you didn't originally install with the "noraid" option.

-Shut down the machine
-Install drive as master on the second IDE channel (hdc)
-Boot up
-Log on as admin to get to the admin console
-Go to #5 Manage disk redundency

It should tell you there if the drives are syncing up.  Don't turn off the server until the sync is complete or it will start from the beginning again.  When it is done syncing it will show a good working raid1.

If it doesn't work then file a bug report but I think all the raid issues have been fixed.

Wow fast response, thanks

Well I don't remember if I selected noraid on install ? I mean I don't have a raid device that I know of. I believe the standard IDE controller built onto the Dell Motherboard of a OptiPlex GX110 ?

So I may have selected noraid or perhaps it was selected by default ?

How can I check ?

Thanks for the help

[pfloor]

You would have had to have typed it in manually at the command line and the option was not obvious until 7.1 anyway.  It was always there but kind of hidden before 7.1.

[Agent86]

Hi and thanks

So to conclude I do have 7.1 semi fresh installation and do not recall specifically selecting this, but I have a second computer I can run the setup to see if it rings any bells.

Then I should be sure if I have installed with noraid selection or any such ?

If there is any way for me to check this or a command to test for this setting please advise

Thanks

[william_syd]

If there is any way for me to check this or a command to test for this setting please advise

Thanks

Server console (admin login), Manage Disk Redundency

What does that display ?

[bpivk]

Agent just plug your disk in server and try. If it works then you have no problems and if not... well then you do.

[Agent86]

If there is any way for me to check this or a command to test for this setting please advise

Thanks

Server console (admin login), Manage Disk Redundency

What does that display ?

I never noticed that screen before I usually login to the server-manager

Here is what I get from the Manager Disk Redundency

>>>>>

Current RAID status:                                                     │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Personalities : [raid1]                                                  │
  │ md1 : active raid1 hda1[0]                                               │
  │       104320 blocks [2/1] [U_]                                           │
  │ md2 : active raid1 hda2[0]                                               │
  │       19446592 blocks [2/1] [U_]                                         │
  │ unused devices: <none>                                                   │
  │                                                                          │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Your system only has a single disk drive installed or is using           │
  │ hardware mirroring. If you would like to enable software mirroring,      │
  │ please shut down, install a second disk drive (of the same capacity)     │
  │ and then return to this screen.            

And currently there is only one drive in the system so I'll ad the other drive this weekend  and post back

>>>>>

SME forum has been most pleasant and is a class model act for all other forums to follow

Thanks to everyone

[Agent86]

Hi all here is the results looks like it's in progress was very simple really just wanted to be safe.

Anyhow looking like this now:

 Current RAID status:                                                     │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Personalities : [raid1]                                                  │
  │ md1 : active raid1 hdc1[1] hda1[0]                                       │
  │       104320 blocks [2/2] [UU]                                           │
  │ md2 : active raid1 hdc2[2] hda2[0]                                       │
  │       19446592 blocks [2/1] [U_]                                         │
  │       [=====>...............]  recovery = 29.7% (5786880/19446592)       │
  │ finish=16.8min speed=13544K/sec                                          │
  │ unused devices: <none>                                                   │
  │                                                                          │
  │                                                                          │
  │ A RAID resynchronization is in progress.

So I'm guessing this is ok ?

[Agent86]

Mirroring drives in the same IDE channel (eg. hda and hdb) is not desirable.  If that channel goes out, you may loose both drives.  Also, performance will suffer slightly.

The preferred method is to use the master location on each IDE channel (eg. hda and hdc).  This will ensure that if you loose one channel, the other will still operate.  It will also give you the best performance.

In 2 drive setups I always do this:

IDE 1 Master - Drive1
IDE 1 Slave - CDROM
IDE 2 Master - Drive 2

I didnt' think about it till I hooked up the other hard drive but is there any problem that you can see with this setup

IDE 1 Master - Drive1
IDE 2 Master - Drive 2
IDE 2 Slave - CDROM

I didn't think of it cause my ribbons forced me to lower my CD drive and then put the other drive in, but after I was finished I realized that I would have to move the Master 1 up a level, and the Master 2 below the Master 1 in order for the cables to reach from Master 1 to CD1  so I basically just left them alone and plugged the Master2 into the CD2 slave

Is there any real problem with this config ?

And also if I decide to change it will there be any problem moving the CD to Master 1 slave and adjusting the jumpers etc. ?
Any reason for concern about data  ?

Thanks

[Agent86]

It should work automagically as long as you didn't originally install with the "noraid" option.

-Shut down the machine
-Install drive as master on the second IDE channel (hdc)
-Boot up
-Log on as admin to get to the admin console
-Go to #5 Manage disk redundency

It should tell you there if the drives are syncing up.  Don't turn off the server until the sync is complete or it will start from the beginning again.  When it is done syncing it will show a good working raid1.

If it doesn't work then file a bug report but I think all the raid issues have been fixed.

After all percentage of sync seems to complete I now have this

  │ Current RAID status:                                                     │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Personalities : [raid1]                                                  │
  │ md1 : active raid1 hdc1[1] hda1[0]                                       │
  │       104320 blocks [2/2] [UU]                                           │
  │ md2 : active raid1 hdc2[1] hda2[0]                                       │
  │       19446592 blocks [2/2] [UU]                                         │
  │ unused devices: <none>                                                   │
  │                                                                          │
  │                                                                          │
  │ All RAID devices are in clean state    

1. I'm guessing this means that both drives are now synced ?

2. Now if I decide to utilize the other 2 Secondary channels for hard drives will the raid automatically configure those and sync as well ?

3. If I decide to upgrade my hard drives to larger capacity what should be the first steps ? Can I duplicate the drive to a larger hard drive without re-installing the SME OS ?

Please advise
Thanks to all


Please advise on both subjects
Thanks to all.

[Agent86]

I mean the DHCP keep running cause I keep internet, but all other server functions failed

Can't login to server-manager, then no access to the console basically in appearance to be froze, not root ssh access etc.

I have to restart then server if running fine for about 2-3 hours then starts to freeze again since the new hard drive was added.

I could be hard drive problem but not sure how to check for any other server problems ?

[Agent86]

After freezups the Disk Management now indicates this :

                                                                          │
  │ Current RAID status:                                                     │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Personalities : [raid1]                                                  │
  │ md1 : active raid1 hda1[0] hdc1[1]                                       │
  │       104320 blocks [2/2] [UU]                                           │
  │ md2 : active raid1 hda2[0] hdc2[2](F)                                    │
  │       19446592 blocks [2/1] [U_]                                         │
  │ unused devices: <none>                                                   │
  │                                                                          │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Only some of the RAID devices are unclean.                               │
  │                                                                          │
  │ Manual intervention may be required.                                     │
  │                                      

Something sounds wrong, but the the machine is not freezing up now.

Please advise what this means ?

[pfloor]

There is something wrong with the second drive you installed.  It is not syncing the second partition.

Did you install an identical drive? IOW are hda and hdc identical or are they just similar?

You may also have a bad IDE controller or cable.  Are the cables new? Are they both 80 wire cables?

[Agent86]

Yes to all

Both Drives the same make and model, and also cables are new and 80's,
This is probably  correct that one drive is not synced ?
What will is say if the drive failed ? or dead ?

I think that second hard drive has failed if that is what the (F) means ?

I have another drive I'll pop in there to see how it goes
That drive was working in another desktop, but now it seems to also make an occasional clunking noise which is typical when the armature is going bad.

I'm not positive, however I'll take the drive out and run some tests, and then also pop in another drive.

I was wondering what may happen if I sync a larger second drive, I know that it will only be used as the capacity of the smaller drive, but what if I then take out the smaller drive and add another identical drive to the larger drive ? will the capacity increase or does it always resort back to the initial small drive capacity ? even if the small drive is no longer present ?

[pfloor]

Was the second drive new or had it been installed before?  If it was ever installed on a Windows machine then you will need to clear the MBR first before installing it.  Search the forums or bug tracker for the correct commands.

You can install a larger drive and utilize the entire drive.  There is a way to do this and once again you will need to search for the correct steps but it goes something like this:

-CAUTION MAKE A FULL BACKUP!!!
-Shut down and install larger drive.
-Boot up and wait for drives to sync up properly.
-Shut down and remove smaller drive. (Don't loose or erase this drive, you might need it to start all over if something goes wrong.)
-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (this is what you need to search for)
-Install another new large drive and let it sync up the larger drives (if you want raid1)

This has been tested in the bug tracker and you might want to go there and read before you try anything.

[stephen noble]

This has been a great thread, I've copied parts to the manual
http://smeserver.sourceforge.net/sme70/sme70/Manual/Chapter4

a few commands need to be added, see the FIXME's

[Agent86]

Was the second drive new or had it been installed before?  If it was ever installed on a Windows machine then you will need to clear the MBR first before installing it.  Search the forums or bug tracker for the correct commands.

You can install a larger drive and utilize the entire drive.  There is a way to do this and once again you will need to search for the correct steps but it goes something like this:

-CAUTION MAKE A FULL BACKUP!!!
-Shut down and install larger drive.
-Boot up and wait for drives to sync up properly.
-Shut down and remove smaller drive. (Don't loose or erase this drive, you might need it to start all over if something goes wrong.)
-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (this is what you need to search for)
-Install another new large drive and let it sync up the larger drives (if you want raid1)

This has been tested in the bug tracker and you might want to go there and read before you try anything.

It was a used drive and did have a dual boot partition of windows and linux grub etc.

This is great I'll research and post back thanks

[Agent86]

This has been a great thread, I've copied parts to the manual
http://smeserver.sourceforge.net/sme70/sme70/Manual/Chapter4

a few commands need to be added, see the FIXME's

Where would one find these commands ?

Thanks

[Agent86]

One more question

When one drive fails in a mirrored system and the other takes over?

Is this what will happen ?I mean do I need to reboot, or replace anything or will the second drive automatically take over ?

[pfloor]

One more question

When one drive fails in a mirrored system and the other takes over?

Is this what will happen ?I mean do I need to reboot, or replace anything or will the second drive automatically take over ?

On a Raid1, data is simultaneously written to both drives.  That is why it is called a mirror.  During a read, it can read from either drive.  If a drive fails it will automatically stop reading from the failed drive, remove the failed partition(s) from the array and will email you that there is a problem.

The system will continue to work on 1 drive until you replace and re-sync the drives.

[Agent86]

One more question

When one drive fails in a mirrored system and the other takes over?

Is this what will happen ?I mean do I need to reboot, or replace anything or will the second drive automatically take over ?

On a Raid1, data is simultaneously written to both drives.  That is why it is called a mirror.  During a read, it can read from either drive.  If a drive fails it will automatically stop reading from the failed drive, remove the failed partition(s) from the array and will email you that there is a problem.

The system will continue to work on 1 drive until you replace and re-sync the drives.

Thanks
That what I figured but  i was not sure in the restart event how the server may treat the drive if the failed drive is IDE Primary Master and the Good Drive is Secondary Master ?

I was concerned that I would have to change channels or bios to boot from Secondary Master etc. ?

[bpivk]

Note that this is not windows with it's limitations (read: problems and requests).

[stephen noble]

>Where would one find these commands ?

you should be able to find them in the manual
until they get added you have to search bugzilla and the forums

[zi4]

I have 2 identical harddrives, but one of them has a few defect clusters since a while --not increasing amount.  Can I use it for Raid 1?

[pfloor]

I have 2 identical harddrives, but one of them has a few defect clusters since a while --not increasing amount.  Can I use it for Raid 1?

I would not use any hard drive with known problems.

[Agent86]

I see this in the manual

4.3.4. Upgrading the Hard Drive Size

-CAUTION MAKE A FULL BACKUP!!!
-Shut down and install larger drive.
-Boot up and wait for drives to sync up properly.
-Shut down and remove smaller drive. (Don't loose or erase this drive, you might need it to start all over if something goes wrong.)
-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (FIXME)
-Install another new large drive and let it sync up the larger drives (if you want raid1)

Note
It you aren't an advanced user and you utilize more than one drive, they should all be identical in size and model.

I'm concerned since I'm not and advanced user, and also am upgrading both my drive capacities, and the subject to issue some commands to expand the partitions (FIXME) I'm not sure what commands and where to find those commands ?

??

Thanks
Steve

[stephen noble]

>>-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (this is what you need to search for)

>This is great I'll research and post back thanks

these are the comments from earlier in the thread
you have to do some research

the information will be moved from the admin manual to the tech manual, so it's clear it's an advanced customisation

if unsure
the usual method is backup, add the two drives, and install/restore

[Agent86]

>>-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (this is what you need to search for)

>This is great I'll research and post back thanks

these are the comments from earlier in the thread
you have to do some research

the information will be moved from the admin manual to the tech manual, so it's clear it's an advanced customisation

if unsure
the usual method is backup, add the two drives, and install/restore

Well I'm concerned about install restore, does backup to desktop backup everything configuration and data from ibays and user files ?

Please advise
Thanks

[byte]

does backup to desktop backup everything configuration and data from ibays and user files ?

Yes, but be warned of the 2GB limit if backuping via server-manager

[Agent86]

does backup to desktop backup everything configuration and data from ibays and user files ?

Yes, but be warned of the 2GB limit if backuping via server-manager

Thanks for that, and what about any RPM's I've installed

I guess I'm not sure what steps to take, I've backed up to desktop

Now I want to install the new HD and SME fresh install, but should I restore from backup before doing any updates that may be available?

And what about any RPM's that I've installed Like the updated horde stuff ?

I am hoping I can install SME 7.1 fresh install then restore from backup and all my rpm's and files are restored ?

Is that it or is there something else will I have to re-install all the RPM's and things ?

[bpivk]

You'll have to reinstall rpm's.

[Agent86]

You'll have to reinstall rpm's.

Ok, thanks

I would rather do the hard drive upgrade method, however I can't seem to figure out how to expand the partitions etc.

I've been toying around with Gparted and can't figure out how to expand the partitions with this tool. So I'll keep searching?

And thanks for the replies

[Agent86]

This subject is now being covered in another post regarding backups:

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=35514.0

End of Post

[pfloor]

I see this in the manual

4.3.4. Upgrading the Hard Drive Size

-CAUTION MAKE A FULL BACKUP!!!
-Shut down and install larger drive.
-Boot up and wait for drives to sync up properly.
-Shut down and remove smaller drive. (Don't loose or erase this drive, you might need it to start all over if something goes wrong.)
-Boot up and issue some commands to expand the partitions (FIXME)
-Install another new large drive and let it sync up the larger drives (if you want raid1)

Note
It you aren't an advanced user and you utilize more than one drive, they should all be identical in size and model.

I'm concerned since I'm not and advanced user, and also am upgrading both my drive capacities, and the subject to issue some commands to expand the partitions (FIXME) I'm not sure what commands and where to find those commands ?

??

Thanks
Steve

Steve, Shad (the raid guru) has fixed the documentation (FIXME is not a command, it is a note for someone to "Fix" the documentation).  The proper steps to change to larger raid1 drives is here:

http://smeserver.sourceforge.net/sme7/tech/Chapter8?v=tnu#h1137-6

BTW, a lot of the questions that you have asked on these forums is easily answered in the various documentation found here:

http://smeserver.sourceforge.net/sme7/docs?v=ykv

[Agent86]

This subject is now being covered in another post regarding backups:

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=35514.0

End of Post

Thats why my previous post indicates that this subject is now covered at the other post and solved as indicated by Shad and links in the other post to the tech manual of the appropriate section

Also note that is also why I've posted End of Post which was my opinion that this post was solved and completed

But incidentally this edit to the manual was most recent and occured prior to my initial post regarding these subject so to suggest that these questions are answered prior to my initial posting would be incorrect, however now that the manual had been updated I agree that this is now currently addressed in the manual


Thanks for the update