Topic: fetchmail and pop3 question (I am a noob)

[CharlieBrady]

You can not, 5 minutes is the minimum due to the SME Server architecture.

That's also an unreasonable burden on the ISP's mail infrastructure. If you want mail to arrive in mailboxes as soon as possible, don't use pop3 and don't use fetchmail, but have it directly delivered to your mail server via SMTP.

[william_syd]

sorry to be a pain but now I have mail working but the instructions at
http://www.schirrms.net/sme/SMEFetchMail.php
 dont work out and what I am trying to achieve now is to schedule the mail every two minutes for each user.

schirrms.net says:

Using the server-manager panel you can only select what is in the drop down box.

If you attempt to schedule mail collection too often, then one instance of fetchmail may not complete before the next one starts. Very inefficient and you end up with annoying emails to the administrator.

fetchmail: another foreground fetchmail is running at 17293.
fetchmail: another foreground fetchmail is running at 17293.

It can be done but you need to hack some code.

Yes, setting the schedule is a two-step process. You have to select ETRN and save. Set your schedule and save. Reselect Standard and save.

Edit: Look under Configuration >> E-mail >> Change e-mail reception settings

[joyrider]

That's also an unreasonable burden on the ISP's mail infrastructure. If you want mail to arrive in mailboxes as soon as possible, don't use pop3 and don't use fetchmail, but have it directly delivered to your mail server via SMTP.

Doesn't that rather depend on the volume of mail? I mean peeking into 7 or 8 mailboxes to pull down 10 or 12 emails an hour is hardly gonna bust the isp's back is it ?

I mean one way or another the isp has to transport the email

[william_syd]

Doesn't that rather depend on the volume of mail? I mean peeking into 7 or 8 mailboxes to pull down 10 or 12 emails an hour is hardly gonna bust the isp's back is it ?

Are you the ISP's only customer ?

[joyrider]

well like I said - they have to carry the email one way or another !
at some point it travels their infrastructure whether I use pop or smtp

[william_syd]

well like I said - they have to carry the email one way or another !
at some point it travels their infrastructure whether I use pop or smtp

Every time you connect to their mail sever your using resources on the machine, its not just data transferred.

How many people sit at their computer 24/7 checking their email every 2 minutes?

[CharlieBrady]

well like I said - they have to carry the email one way or another !
at some point it travels their infrastructure whether I use pop or smtp

If you use SMTP it won't touch their computers at all, packets will just pass through their routers.

[joyrider]

Ok point taken on the fact you wouldnt be hassling their servers but hey its not like they only got one mail server and there is a reason why we cant have the mail forwarded by smtp - reasons I dont want to go into here just simply because its too long to go into

The fact of the matter is people want their mail instantly. If they get a phone call and someone says "Ok I just sent it" if that mail isnt on the recipient desktop two minutes later then they think their computer is broke or something.
Take it from me - having 6 or 7 users checking their mail aint gonna break the internet in half and cause world war 3 or 4. Its just a few bytes of traffic every now and then.
The Isp we use has about 6 million customers - I doubt we are gonna be their biggest headache !
You would be better off worrying about people who send companies 10,000 emails a day as spam !!!

[CharlieBrady]

You would be better off worrying about ...

For a noob, you seem to have rather strong opinions, and be reluctant to accept the advise you have asked for.

I'm quite happy to make my own decisions about what I worry about, thanks.

Just avoid fetchmail. Your users can fetch from their ISP's mailboxes directly as often as they feel like. If they use IMAP, their mail client will be notified as soon a new message arrives.

[joyrider]

I am fairly new to linux compared to some people who are experts and geniuses at it - I consider I am just learning it. I am not new to network administration and have a lot of experience in everything from working in mainframe environments to doing what I love now which is looking after small companies. I didnt ask for advice on the ethics of collecting via pop3 just how to achieve collecting mail every coupla minutes.
I realise some people have opinions about the way networks should be run but they are just opinions after all.

To be honest maybe you guys run data centres with tens if not hundreds of connections where such considerations matter, but I just look after a few very small companies where they have a couple of servers at maximum and just want their email and accounts software running and the rest is done by telephone - its not rocket science its just the way things are done at small companies where servers go down unexpectedly because some guy thought he was unplugging his mobile ,or they decide to put a cloth over it because it makes too much noise and they tried to quieten it but it overheats etc. you know - so it makes sense to make things simple and idiot proof.  Fair play if I was talking about 30 or 40 employees at a throw or hundreds but I was talking about 5 or 6

The argument about "yeah but what if everyone did it"? dont work, because in reality not everyone does it and besides pop3 isnt practical over and above a handful of users then you would definitely need to change the mx record and have the mail relayed because of the amount of admin involved

imap and smtp dont work for them because we want the mail pulled to thge server in the office as it would be easier to maintain the mail there than on the isp mail server - and with imap only the headers are pulled
we dont want smtp because the servers sometimes go down in the summer heat because the office is situated in an old part of town (brick lane london) and the leccy is very unreliable there at the truman brewery office complex and due to the nature of their business they dont want mail bouncing they would prefer to wait than have it bounce
the fact is the server I was building was meant to be part backup mail server and part main mail server - but I went back to Suse Linux anyway - I know I know thats like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut but what the heck - lifes full of anomolies and paradoxes and paradigm shifts

[janet]

joyrider

they dont want mail bouncing they would prefer to wait than have it bounce

That 's a wrong assumption, it should be queued by the sending smtp mail server to retry the delivery later, for usually up to 7 days, depending on the mail server configuration.
See
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:FAQ#Secondary.2FBackup_Mail_Server_Considerations

You would be better off to go with the smtp server and give everybody their own email address like name@yourdomain address, and mail will arrive very quickly then, almosty instantly in the case of local messages.

[joyrider]

That 's a wrong assumption, it should be queued by the sending smtp mail server to retry the delivery later, for usually up to 7 days, depending on the mail server configuration.

Like I said the nature of their business demands rapid access to all forms of communication the quicker the better and with the state of power round there during the summer it dont make sense. You know as well as I do that the mail queue will retry a send for the first few times within an hour or so but with powercuts lasting up to two hours it could be on a server queue for hours. I havent assumed anything at all. I got told what  they need and supply it. I dont know where you guys work but in the real world of network administration people want access to their mail any way they can get it and if it isnt instant then they blame the IT guy. Everything in the click of a finger NOW THIS SECOND or else!
so you try to go with the standards laid out out in those lovely little documents but at the end of the day its anything to get that mail to them and keep em off your back - its not like they care about those networking standards - they think thats all BS compared to the fact that they want you to deliver their mail in the best way possible and they dont want to wait hours

People who are against pop3 ignore the pragmatic day-to-day realities and shortcomings of smtp.
It's not always practical to do things your way - lovely on paper - nice ribbons and everything around the scroll - but in practice folks its get the mail now preserve it get it tro them ASAP anything it takes to keep the users happy huh ???!

[janet]

joyrider

If your server is on, then you will get mail more quickly using smtp than pop.
If your server is off, then mail will be delivered when it comes back on, and there will/may be delays with pop or smtp in that case.

If you have frequent power failures then you should really be using a large enough UPS that will keep your server on for the duration. Mail will always get through then, and that's what your users want isn't it ?
You also don't risk damaging your hardware or file system with frequent uncontrolled power outages.

[joyrider]

Like I said these people are a small company they cant afford a generator or UPS that will work for two hours that would cost literally hundreds if not thousands - believe me its a 140 quid for one big enough to handle a server with a 730wat power supply - yeah 730 watt for 6 minutes! (which is what they have now)
and theres two of em -

Oh and smtp usually works like this
can mail be delivered - no
queue for 10 mins
retry
mail delivered - no
retry in 30
mail delivered - no retry in 2 hours
mail delivered - no retry in 24 hours

NOT PRACTICAL !!!!!!

POP 3
Client attempts to get mail
power failure
client quickly moves to another device or machine not affected power failure reads mails !!
power comes back on
mail also instantly pulled to old machine - no queing for 24 hrs

[janet]

joyrider

I don't understand the great concern about getting mail immediately, when they tolerate 2 hour power fails, during which time they receive no mail at all. The attitude seems imbalanced.

A 730watt power supply does not consume 730w all the time, that's a maximum rating, power consumption will depend on what's inside the box and what it's doing.