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Newbie with VoIP world

Offline Normando

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Newbie with VoIP world
« on: October 06, 2008, 09:38:37 AM »
Hello dear.

I have a few newbie questions.

What is the differences between Asterisk and Sail?
and also, what is the differences between Sail and SARK?

Thank you

Offline arne

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 12:28:16 PM »
I'm not sure if I know the precise answers, but there is a documentation page: http://www.selintra.co.uk/docs/cgi-bin/view

Hopefully there will be some "sharp" answers to the original questions as well.
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Offline pfloor

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2008, 06:49:52 AM »
Hello dear.

I have a few newbie questions.

What is the differences between Asterisk and Sail?
and also, what is the differences between Sail and SARK?

Thank you

Asterisk is the PBX software itself.  It can actually run on its own on most Linux distros but is EXTREMELY difficult for the novice to configure.

Sail is an SME specific, Server-Manager integrated front-end user interface that is used (among other things) to configure, start, stop, etc. Asterisk (and its related components).  Sail is similar to FreePBX (www.freepbx.org)

SARK is SME, Asterisk and Sail all bundled together.  I believe this was originally just hardware but is now available in an ISO and can be loaded on almost any machine.  SARK is similar to Trixbox CE(www.trixbox.com/products/trixbox-ce).

In life, you must either "Push, Pull or Get out of the way!"

Offline Normando

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2008, 07:05:21 AM »
Thank you very much pfloor for the clearly explanation. This is very helpfull for me.

Offline arne

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2008, 01:05:34 PM »
Manual configuration of Asterisk is actually not difficult, but rather quite fun, and different from anything else.

Some of the configuration is like a script language where you can design all the telephony functions you can imagine. This is actually quite fun and interresting.

To be able to do a manually configuration of Asterisk this free book can be red:
http://cachefly.oreilly.com/books/9780596510480.pdf

For scripting your own telephony functions, see cahaper 5 "Dialplan Basics".
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Offline Normando

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2008, 04:41:59 PM »
Thank you arne, I will read the book and try!

Thank to all for the help.

Offline pfloor

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM »
Asterisk is the PBX software itself.  It can actually run on its own on most Linux distros but is EXTREMELY difficult for the novice to configure.

Normando, let me reiterate myself here.  Asterisk with a simple configuration may be fairly easy to manually configure.  However, even a moderately complex setup is very different.  For instance:

My business currently uses 3 VIOP servers interconnected (via iax trunks) at 3 separate locations and 3 different area codes with 8 total POTS lines and 20 extensions including 3 fax machines (via Hylafax and iaxmodem) and no VIOP providers.  My extensions*.conf files alone total over 15,000 lines of configuration code just on the main server.  I can't comprehend nor do I have have time to write, reconfigure or maintain 15,000+ lines of code, I let FreePBX do it all for me.

3 Asterisk servers - $2000...
20 Phones, ATA's, etc. - $3500...

The ability to properly configure the entire setup in less than 1 hour and configure additional extension, trunks, routes, etc. in seconds via a GUI and not need to edit a single config file- $Priceless  :grin:
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 06:04:02 PM by pfloor »
In life, you must either "Push, Pull or Get out of the way!"

Offline Stefano

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 06:09:57 PM »
3 Asterisk servers - $2000...
20 Phones, ATA's, etc. - $3500...

The ability to properly configure the entire setup in less than 1 hour and configure additional extension, trunks, routes, etc. in seconds via a GUI and not need to edit a single config file- $Priceless  :grin:

OT: mmmhhh... sounds like M.........D promo :-D

Ciao
Stefano

Offline pfloor

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2008, 06:13:35 PM »
OT: mmmhhh... sounds like M.........D promo :-D
As intended. :-)
In life, you must either "Push, Pull or Get out of the way!"

Offline arne

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2008, 10:37:54 PM »
The little secret hidden in the method of manual configuration is that you can do the same things as mentioned above from only a small fraction of the same configuration code. It taks some longer time to learn, but you can do the same solutions quite different from the "all automatic systems". If you have some "library" of code, you can set up things rather quicly as well.

A minimalistic and specialized linux distro that can be configured only like this is: http://www.astlinux.org/

It has a super clever user forum where yuo can get help to the most things.

Whith such a manually configured system you have the freedom of doing all the specialised functions that the makers of the "all automatic system" did not think about. I started with such "all automatic systems" for a while ago, but I think I never will return back to that kind of systems anymore.

It's a mather of taste. Some might prefere the one kind of solution, some the other.

The book describes the basic knowledge that is needed to get started to do your own things.

Astlinux can also be tested under Windows. (And the excamples from the book can be tested.)

It's no doubt that you will get quicker started with an "all automatic system" (I used asterisk@home myself). After some basic things is learned the next logical step is to learn to do things manually.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 10:44:12 PM by arne »
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Offline pfloor

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 02:34:05 AM »
The little secret hidden in the method of manual configuration is that you can do the same things as mentioned above from only a small fraction of the same configuration code. It taks some longer time to learn, but you can do the same solutions quite different from the "all automatic systems". If you have some "library" of code, you can set up things rather quicly as well.

A basic system maybe but when you have specific dial patterns dependant on area codes and prefixes then you will soon find yourself manually looking up prefixes (around 1500 per area code) and manually inputting 5500+ config lines per area code.  With FreePBX (and even Sail i beleive), you click a couple of times and you are done.

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Whith such a manually configured system you have the freedom of doing all the specialised functions that the makers of the "all automatic system" did not think about.

FreePBX did think about it and is the best of both worlds.  You can use the GUI for all the mundane items (like dial patterns) and are also free to do "manual specialized" configurations via config file editing as well.

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I started with such "all automatic systems" for a while ago, but I think I never will return back to that kind of systems anymore.

Hook 3 servers together via IAX trunks and route the POTS calls depending on area code/prefix and you may just reconsider that.

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It's a mather of taste. Some might prefere the one kind of solution, some the other.

The book describes the basic knowledge that is needed to get started to do your own things.

Exactly, "basic knowledge" and "getting started".  If you intend on building an enterprise class phone system, you need to configure fast and accurate.  Most of us in the real world don't have time to fiddle with config files, it just isn't practical at all.

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It's no doubt that you will get quicker started with an "all automatic system" (I used asterisk@home myself). After some basic things is learned the next logical step is to learn to do things manually.

I am serious and trying to run a business and I would never do that.  Since loading FreePBX, I have never had to do anything manually.  FreePBX and Sail will save the seriuos business owner hundreds of hours and in turn thousands of dollars.

The real difference between you and me Arne is that you play around and I don't.  Every Server I have is in production and works very well with minimum configuration time spent because I use the GUI's and I rarely touch a config file, I just don't have the time to "learn and have fun".

Arne, I finally figured you out.

You play with SME (and other software) to experiment, learn and have "fun"...
I use SME and other software to run a my business.

You probe others' minds to see how you can change something in the software...
I depend on those same minds and pay those same people to make those fancy GUI's for me.

You want to change a lot of things just for the sake of change...
SME is everything my small business needs and it works so I don't want it changed.

You like to manually configure everything...
I don't have the time.

You use SME as an education and a toy...
I use SME as a tool and to make my business grow.

We are 2 very different people and we will never see eye to eye, there is no point in even trying anymore.  Anything I say, you will rebut.  Your opinion is always going to be opposite of mine but this is natural as we see SME differently.  Toy versus Tool, Apples versus Oranges.

You may now commence to writing an entire paragraph of dribble on why I am wrong.  Why don't you spare everyone in this community and just email me personally (you are welcome to).  You do know where to find my email address, don't you?
In life, you must either "Push, Pull or Get out of the way!"

Offline arne

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 03:08:33 PM »
Pfloor ->

Thanks for your comment.

I feel that the discussion is a bit off topic and that we has a different view of what purposes a text based configuration of a Asterisk server can be used for. This is for me not a problem.

I am working on another project just now, but I might send you a mail consering your ip telephony solution. If you have time or if you have some standard info to send out, there will be things that is interesting to look into.

Hopefully Normando have now got the information he searched.

......

Offline Normando

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Re: Newbie with VoIP world
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 04:16:41 PM »
Hopefully Normando have now got the information he searched.

Yes, sure! I have now an overview about sail/asterisk/freepbx

Thank you both. (take it easy)

Best regards