Topic: sme vs windows sbs

[Stefano]

we're going toward a religion war.. anyway..

Small Business Server has Exchange, SQL Server, and a few other options depending on the version,

exactly, "depending on the version".. SME hasn't such a limitation

and Active Directory. AD creates a 'domain' that users and other servers can join. When they join, they are given rights, and you can control their access to files and services, and allow other servers to trust certain users without a lot of intervention on your part.

this is partially true even for SME

Exchange is basically a central database of email that can be backed up live, and has other benefits, like the calendaring mentioned above.

in my personal experience, "benefits" and "exchange" are words that can't be in the same sentence without a negation.
about exchange's mail storage, it's well known as a nightmare for sysad.

SME, as almost every linux distro, save each mail in a single text file.. this has many advantages: first you can backup them live, then you can compress them easily..
with SME you don't have any limitation about users, mailbox etc.. (depending on your HW)

Windows really shines at basic file and print sharing

strange.. on the same hw and lan, a customer of mine has noted a big improvement in speed form sbs2003 and SME..

, and it runs easily on any hardware you can think of just because there are drivers for everything.

that's partially true.. one of the advantage of linux is that drivers are written for specific chipset.. so, passing from debian to centos to slackware, the same lan adapter will behave in the same manner.. and two different adapter with the same chipset will do the same.. with windows you have drivers written from manufacturers.. two lan adapters based on the same chipset will work in different way according to their drivers..

But I would never attach a Windows server directly to the web, so I dont use Windows servers as gateways or firewalls. I install one nic in them and hide them behind a firewall.

generally speaking, putting datas and users on the firewall is not a good idea.. that's why I prefer SME in server mode with a good firewall

SME really shines at webserving, virus & spam scanning, firewall, email, (with pop3, imap, and horde) and you can serve files, although I'm not conviced that samba is as good as windows with heavily used database files like MS Access. But do you really want to store your files on your firewall in any case?

about files on firewall: see above
about Access: tecnically speaking,  it's just c**p, as it's a multiuser db when user's number is less than 2

SBS, and the software to do backups, etc. is very expensive, while SME is priced right. But if you need SBS, cost isnt really an issue...

the right question is "why would you need SBS?".. I mean: if you really need exchange or sqlserver, you'll not buy SBS but you'll use different server for different tasks.. exchange on one server, sql on another one.. if you buy sbs you really need a lot of ram and cpu and, in any case, you'll never be able to get all the power.

and finally, one thing where SME and linux are unbeatable is logging.. EVERYTHING is logged, logs are in plain text.. troubleshooting with linux is undoubtedly easier than with windows

just my 2c

Ciao
Stefano

[compdoc]

SME has only one version. You add any software functions beyond that at your own risk.

Exchange is reliable, well known, and easily worked with. Anyone who thinks its not hasnt used it or doesnt have the right set of skills.

Access wouldnt be my choice, but I dont tell my customers what to do, I just make it work for them. When Access is used heavily, samba has some issues, or has in the past.

And if youre trying to say SME has anything like MS's domain and AD structure, all I can say is phffft!

As for the rest, you dont really have arguments for anything else I've posted.

[Stefano]

SME has only one version. You add any software functions beyond that at your own risk.

SME has many contribs
about risk.. do you know that M$ uses all its users as beta-tester?
everything with a windows based server is a risk.. virus, rootkit etc..

Exchange is reliable, well known, and easily worked with. Anyone who thinks its not hasnt used it or doesnt have the right set of skills.

maybe, but you'll never know what's doing under the hood.. and, believe me, I'm talking because in my organization (wit M$ certified sysad) we use exchange..

Access wouldnt be my choice, but I dont tell my customers what to do, I just make it work for them. When Access is used heavily, samba has some issues, or has in the past.

I agree, but's not a SME limitation

And if youre trying to say SME has anything like MS's domain and AD structure, all I can say is phffft!

no.. I will never say anything such this.. but SME is for smal and medium enterprise.. so, I think that in a small enterprise with 40/50 users you will not have 10 servers, 300 grous and so on.. in such a scenario, SME will do everything SBS can do.. it's only a bit difficult an less "user friendly".. btw, do you really need fancy icons and a mouse to setup an user, a group or a shared directory?

and more, can you really do it via a gprs smartphone sitting on the beach?
with SME I can, and I can admin my server from everywhere even if the conn speed is 9600 bps (sloooooooooowly, I admit)

ah, if a customer of mine has to spend 2k € for the server, 2k € for sbs, cals, AV and anything he needs, and also pay me to setup all (let's say 2k€), he normally prefer to spend 2k € for the hw and 3k€ for my work.. he saves 1000€ and has exactly what he needs

As for the rest, you dont really have arguments for anything else I've posted.

please explain.. my english is not so good and I could misunderstand your sentence.

Ciao
Stefano

btw, we are talking about sex of the angels..

[sal1504]

First, let me say that the intention of my question was not to debate the pros and cons of SME and SBS. It simply a question to prepare a comparision between the two. 

With that being said.

Cmpdoc,

I have been a computer consultant since 1982. I started my networking with Novell 1.1 and progressed to Microsoft then to Linux (which Novell has been wise to accept). I received my Microsoft Certification in 1994. When it comes to ease of installation and administration of a network you have to look beyond the b******t published my M$. To give you a good example I have a customer that has 235 users, 13 servers in 9 locations. Each location has a server for their individual remote employee files. They have one server used for corporate e-mail and www, one server for their custom billing software (the billing software uses M$ Foxpro as the database which works fine on SME), one server used as a terminal server and one server used for backup of all the other servers. The e-mail server is the Domain Controller and authenication server. Though it is not AD, I have found that it is easier to maintain.

The wide area network is handled with Netgear Managed Switches and Routers. Each remote site can be ran on SBS but the cost for M$ OS for this configuration would be in the thousands of dollars (with hardware being the same). Not practical for a Non-Profit small business. We were able to accomplish everything that  SBS provides with the only software cost being for a substitute for exchange. We used GroupOffice with purchased links to Outlook. This gave them everything that Exchange gave them but at a cost of  $49.00 per user that needed PDA sych (7 users or a cost of $350.00, less than the cost of one SBS 5 clt license purchase). All servers are administered and maintained remotely over the vpn from my office.

As far as the installation goes it takes me 15 to 20 minutes to setup a SME server, With SBS it can easily take 2 to 4 hours. With SBS if you lose the motherboard in the server, you better have another one identical to the one that died or you will be spending hours getting the server backup and running.  With SME you can replace the motherboard with any brand new motherboard and simply do a reconfigure (usually, I ran in to one installation were the motherboard I chose was to new for the version I was running, but I simply replaced with a older chipset).

I could go on and on about the advantages of SME over SBS and this is why I am putting together a comparison of the two operating systems. After 20 years of designing, installing and administering Networks I will PROUDLY recommend SME over Microsoft everytime. The only time I will install a SBS server is if the primary application HAS to run on MSSQL.

Sorry about the rant

Sal

[soprom]

sal1504,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

could you elaborate on this:

The e-mail server is the Domain Controller and authentication server. Though it is not AD, I have found that it is easier to maintain.

I would like to know what choice you made concerning authentication for multiple servers.

[kevinb]

Bump ...

Has the wiki progressed any?

Kevin

[janet]

sal1504

The only time I will install a SBS server is if the primary application HAS to run on MSSQL.

While not the same thing, with a bit of clever programming you can create a database system eg purpose specific contact management system, using MS products, that run under .Net and connect to the mysql database system on the sme server. This combines the practical needs of programming with MS  infrastructure but uses the power and stability of mysql.

[sal1504]

First let me sorry for not responding sooner I have been extremely busy and have not had much time to work on this project. I am still in the process of putting together the comparison. I am trying to incorporate as many features as possible.

Mary
I am not a "programmer" so I am not sure that i fully understand your comment. When I say that I only use MS when that application requires MSSQL I'm talking about third party applications such as Blackbaud or Fundware which will only run on MSSQL. I am really interested in what you are talking about. Is there some articles I can read up on this.

Sal

[janet]

sal1504

I am really interested in what you are talking about. Is there some articles I can read up on this.

The concept is explained simply here:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,18258.msg71657.html#msg71657

It's advisable/desirable to purchase an ODBC connector software licence for the Visual Basic application to be able to work more smoothly with the mysql db, rather than using free versions.