Topic: Forum Category for SME 8 Beta

[calisun]

It has been a while since I have been on this site, I have been Beta testing another product.

Comparing community involvement in Beta testing the other product vs. this one is almost a joke.
I see totally no community involvement here, and the big reason are the admins that are totally against creating a forum category for SME8 where beta testers can communicate with each other.

I was thinking that since I was a Beta tester for SME 6 and 7, and the Beta test of the other product is almost done, I would help out here. But it seems like admins don't want community involvement, like it is some kind of secret society here.

So I will just hold off and see what happens.

[Stefano]

calisun

IMHO you are totally wrong

instead of barking "like it is some kind of secret society here", think about the fact that the devs are a VERY small group of persons.. then, consider a forum with hundreds/tousands of posts and, on the other side, consider bugzilla.. in your opinion, where do you think devs will find easily info about SME8 issues?

in any case, this is the wrong place.. open a bug asking for the new forum category and join the devs ML to discuss there about beta testing.

SME's development doesn't need this kind of "war"

my 2c
Stefano

[janet]

calisun

As far as I understand you just open a bug report with sme8 as the category to report or discuss anything related to sme8 betas.

The effort required is no greater than posting the same comment or query in a forum. The difference is that in bugzilla it will be more easily managed by the developers & others involved in getting a final release of sme8 out.

You will have a responsive audience there.
You can say anything you want.

[calisun]

Barking?
The other project I was beta testing has about the same number of users as here, but only two developers.
I stopped coming here when I started working on the other product.
The other product went from Alpha1,2,3,4  Beta1,2,3,4 and soon it will be in RC1
In all that time and the work that everybody did there, I come back here and SME server is at the same place as I last left it.

And like I said, I was a SME beta tester for SME 6 and 7, and I could see a bid difference in community involvement as compared to right now.

And what is the difference between SME8 and the other product I was just testing and SME 6 & 7?   The difference is that all the products have a separate forum for beta users to congregate and talk to each other, Except for SME8.

And you said I should open a bug asking for the forum category?  Dude, this has already been discusses long time ago, and developers said that they will not do it. They said that they don't want people to report bugs to forums. But Beta testing is not only filing bug reports, sometimes users need to ask each other things that don't belong in bug report.

SO I was just stating my disbelief at how stagnated this project is, and how project that supports community involvement moves from Alpha1-4 and Beta1-4 in the same time that this project is standing still.

[byte]

The other project I was beta testing has about the same number of users as here, but only two developers.
I stopped coming here when I started working on the other product.
The other product went from Alpha1,2,3,4  Beta1,2,3,4 and soon it will be in RC1

Without knowing what the other project is how can you/we even compare the amount of work involved between them, you maybe comparing apples to oranges.

In all that time and the work that everybody did there, I come back here and SME server is at the same place as I last left it.

Not true we have since gone to beta4 and major work has gone in to the anaconda side of it to make SME Server even more flexible.

And like I said, I was a SME beta tester for SME 6 and 7, and I could see a bid difference in community involvement as compared to right now.

Yes the only difference I see is a lot of people talk about SME 8 beta rather than actually beta testing the product.

And what is the difference between SME8 and the other product I was just testing and SME 6 & 7?   The difference is that all the products have a separate forum for beta users to congregate and talk to each other, Except for SME8.

As mentioned use the bug tracker, also if you wish to "congregate" what's wrong with the devinfo mailing list which is there for talking about development  ?

SO I was just stating my disbelief at how stagnated this project is, and how project that supports community involvement moves from Alpha1-4 and Beta1-4 in the same time that this project is standing still.

Then instead of complaining why not get actively involved, as someone who is actively involved I don't feel this project is standing still, yes maybe moving slowly than we all like but this is due to lack of people/time as we all have real jobs and bills to pay.

[jester]

I do think there is truth in what Calisun is saying. If there is not much going on (if only to the naked eye), people are not 'inspired' to do something either!

Where most people are looking are the forums, not the bug-tracker, not the mailing lists. I do think there is a lot more momentum to be gained in a forum. And when 'educated' (...slapped around the head ) that bugs should be reported in the bug tracker, i don't really see the problem with such a forum, just advantages. Put a sticky up top about bug-reporting and it being temporary, retire it after a next beta,rc.

IMHO, i think it would work.
jester.

edit: lists as example & typo

[cactus]

Put a sticky up top about bug-reporting and it being temporary, retire it after a next beta,rc.

Since that does not even work for released versions I see no reason why this would work in a beta forum.

[jester]

Since that does not even work for released versions I see no reason why this would work in a beta forum.

Just an extra... together with pointing it out to people.

If i've learned something over my time on the forums, it is that people do not read all the manual, warnings, etc, first. I did not first starting out, got slapped around the head a few times (in a friendly manner), now i do. This will always be the case with new users.

If we do not want to attract new users because we do not want the bother of telling them how things work i think we got things the wrong way around and this project will be doomed in the end!

We need activity to attract new users, more users to get things done and in this process gain some momentum to hopefully attract those knowledgeable enough to help out with development.

Just my .02$

[janet]

calisun

.....since I was a Beta tester for SME 6 and 7,...... I would help out here. But it seems like admins don't want community involvement, like it is some kind of secret society here. So I will just hold off and see what happens.

People holding off is the real problem.

The publicly stated policy is that no sme8beta forum will be created.

Your help appears to be conditional upon there being a sme8beta forum.

If you are really serious about wanting to help with sme8, then I suggest you use bugzilla, which anyone can access, as that is the only resource nominated for the task. It's as simple as that.

The developers & admins consider bugzilla the most appropriate place to discuss any and all issues with sme8beta releases.

Just do it rather than oppose it !

[cactus]

If i've learned something over my time on the forums, it is that people do not read all the manual, warnings, etc, first. I did not first starting out, got slapped around the head a few times (in a friendly manner), now i do. This will always be the case with new users.

Yes, we all know that this happens, and apart from some uproar in the recent past, we try to help as much as we can.

If we do not want to attract new users because we do not want the bother of telling them how things work i think we got things the wrong way around and this project will be doomed in the end!

Yep, I agree.

If we do not We need activity to attract new users, more users to get things done and in this process gain some momentum to hopefully attract those knowledgeable enough to help out with development.

I don't think attracting more users is the way to get the ball rolling (quicker) as we get more and more questions and requests where we still not gain anything or anyone to do that for them... we need more development resources (being money or developers who know what to do and can spare the time).

Apart from that we could use people to report issues they see/experience, others who try and reproduce them so we are sure we are seeing a bug and the developers to fix them.. it's like a hospital (and I know the inside out as I work there on a daily basis) no-one to triage means chaos, no nursing staff to provide care means no patients being treated, and no doctor to provide cure or medicine also gets you no step further, anyway patients keep coming in.

The same goes for SME Server, we still gain new users, have a few nurses and a few very experienced doctors but to get rid of the waiting list we need more people to triage, nurses to care and doctors to cure.

[calisun]

calisun

People holding off is the real problem.

People are holding off because they don't see the door open and no Welcome door mat. They just see door barely open and they are not sure if they are allowed to walk though it, ie. secret society.

The developers & admins consider bugzilla the most appropriate place to discuss any and all issues with sme8beta releases.

You want people to discuss issues in Bugzilla?
So what you are saying is that you want to turn bugzilla into forum where developers have to dig through bunch of nonsense to find real bugs?
Would it not make more sense to have people discuss things in forums so they don't clog up bugzilla. Talking in forums will leave bugzilla cleaner and easier for developers to work on actual bugs.

And if there are forums, that will allow users to answer each other questions, leaving developers to focus on bugzilla and real bugs, not bunch of nonsense.

[byte]

People are holding off because they don't see the door open and no Welcome door mat. They just see door barely open and they are not sure if they are allowed to walk though it, ie. secret society.

And what are you basing that on i.e secret society, I don't know how much of a open door and welcome mat is this thread in the Announcement forum:

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,44334.0.html

I don't see much secret going on here.

[calisun]

And what are you basing that on i.e secret society, I don't know how much of a open door and welcome mat is this thread in the Announcement forum:

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,44334.0.html

I don't see much secret going on here.

Very simple, in the announcement it says that everyone is needed to test, but at the same time we are being told that if we need any assistance to subscribe to devinfo mailing list. If any user that is not a developer, but wishes to beta test, as soon as they see devinfo mailing list, they think to themselves that this is something not for them but for some kind of secret developers association.

And besides, I don't understand why developers would want to clog up devinfo mailing list and bugzilla with nonsense and newbies asking same questions over and over.
Instead let people talk to each other in forums, and once it is determined in the forum that something is a bug, than let people use bugzilla for what it was designed to do, to report bugs. And let developers use devinfo mailing list, so they will not be bothered by nonsense from newbies.

[janet]

calisun

The policy re beta releases has been decided long ago ie use bugzilla. Everything to do with a beta release is in fact still developmental, that's why.

As soon as a sme final release or maybe even a RC1 appears, them I'm sure a sme8 forum category will be created.

Please stop this thread, the effort expended by us all would have been better directed to resolving a bug or two.