Topic: Installing Gnome on SME 7.4

[Bert Rolston]

Hi all,

What are the required steps to install AND successfully run GNOME on SME.

WHY?
SME is a brilliant server for my Windows customer's, with all of the common configuration already taken care of.
I know because I've set up Fedora servers in the past, and it takes a lot longer to achieve the same result.

BUT ... my customers like to see a GUI.
[user@machinename ~]$       is a little too scary when they hook up a monitor to do something on the server.

Given that I want to promote Linux and get it adopted into Windows workshops, this is one way to overcome resistance.

So has anyone installed GNOME on SME, and if so where could I find a how-to?

TIA
Bert

[Stefano]

Bert

you and your customers really don't want GNOME on SME, don't you?

you have only to explain them that a gui is not necessary, that even M$ windows 2008 server hasn't a GUI (you can decide to install or not), that everything they need is a browser and, finally, that SME is something like "setup and forget".

if you really want to promote linux, promote it in the right way: each task is done by/with the right tool... a server is not a desktop, so noone is expected to seat in front of it playing a stupid card game

Ciao

Stefano

p.s. yes, I know, I don't answer your question..

[janet]

Bert Rolston

... my customers like to see a GUI.

After the initial OS install, basic first time one off configuration is done using the console by logging in as admin, select Configure this server and then step  through a text style "UI", but after that you rarely if ever need to use this option again.

sme is primarily meant to be administered on a day to day basis with the web browser based GUI server manager, either on the local network or remotely, and all user level administration should be done this way.

Connect a workstation to the server or network and open a browser at
https://www.yourdomain.com/server-manager

Users should rarely if ever need to use the command prompt, which is really for the technical support person to use.

Installing any type of GUI is likely to introduce serious security issues, that why X is not installed by default. That's also why you should not install Gnome.

[Bert Rolston]

Hi folks,
Thanks for your replies.

I understand the points you have made and I WILL be telling my customers the same thing.

My bigger problem is CHANGE MANAGEMENT. In other words moving the customer from a reliance on M$ to the "dark world" of Open Source.
Once they have "seen the light" THEN we can wean them off the GUI on the server.
The customer has to believe that my company isn't as arrogant as M$ by forcing them into something unfamiliar.

I am looking after THE PEOPLE as well as the technology.
To me the people come first, otherwise I would support M$ and forget about OSS.

The server is running behind another firewall.

But this is secondary to my question.

Has anyone done this, if so please provide the relevant information.
I don't want to use a more complex distro simply to get a GUI for my customer.

[Daniel B.]

It's not possible without breaking everything. All the gui tools won't be compatible with the templates system. If you really need a desktop environement like gnome, you'd better look for another distro like CentOS. SME is made to be controled with the server-manager (and the console for some "advanced" configuration).

Cheers, Daniel

[Bert Rolston]

Thanks Daniel.

It's a shame that it is not possible because of the technical mess it would create.

I used to admin NOVELL Netware servers before I moved to Linux and KNOW the GUI isn't necessary.
I really don't like the way M$ has made people think they "needed" a GUI on their server.

Anyway, Thnaks for everyone's help.

Off to Fedora country I go. That's the distro I've used since Redhat 7 days.

Cheers,
Bert

[janet]

Bert Rolston

I'm 100% certain there will never be a GUI console in sme (beyond what is already there), it's a security risk and more unnecessary code to maintain. "Sell" it to your customers as a positive security feature rather than a negative "something missing" feature.
Demonstrate the default GUI ie server manager, by connecting a notebook to the bare server via a crossover cable.
Tell them it is standard practise to run the server "headless", so they can save money on the cost of a monitor.
Your customers should not be doing configuration at the console anyway, unless they are tech support personnel.

[Bert Rolston]

Hi Mary,

I totally agree.

Tell that to a New Zealander though! 
There are more backyard DIY computer 'gurus' in this country than small computer businesses.

I know that I could use the SME setup to protect from these same 'gurus', but at the end of the day it is still about managing customer perceptions.

No they aren't always right, but they have to believe they are right.

This is a new customer, so I have to develop trust as well.

Cheers,
Bert

[janet]

Bert Rolston

You can install the GUI tools that CentOS use by default, (is it X ?), and they will make changes to the configuration files.

Any changes made that way will be overwritten the next time a change is made using server manager, due to the templating design ang signal events that rebuild the configuration files.

You could say the the only valid GUI that is compatible with the underlying design hierarchy on sme server IS server manager.

There is another add on panel called sme7admin or something similar which adds some additional configuration options.

Another control panel that people often wish to install is webmin, and while it will install and is functional, it has the same problem ie changes made with webmin will be overwritten the next time server manager is used to make a change, therefore the use of webmin is also not recommended.

The whole point is that any "standard" control panel GUI will not function appropriately on sme due to the underlying design and are therefore not recommended and not suitable.

The "missing console GUI" is not a mistake, it's by design.

[Bert Rolston]

Bert Rolston

<big snip>

The "missing console GUI" is not a mistake, it's by design.

I understand that and agree with the concept.
I use SME myself on my network BUT I am not my customer. And I use they standard server manager.

If they had been a customer for several years then this wouldn't be an issue.
So for now I have to develop the trust and relationship AS WELL AS introduce them to foreign technology.
You have to know and understand NZ culture, and politics of computers in NZ to appreciate my dilemma.

SME would be a stumbling block not a stepping stone right now.

Therefore I will have to keep SME for another day.

Regards,
Bert

[janet]

Bert Rolston

Do you or your clients realize that there is a "text style graphical"server manager available from the console after logging in as admin, that is mouse controllable too ? They don't need any more than that.

I personally found New Zealanders very friendly & accomodating, and if there is a dollar to be saved they are extremely interested, and using sme server is the way to save many dollars.

[Bert Rolston]

Hi Mary,

Yes NZers are accommodating, that's why they went with a LINUX solution over MS Server 2008.

I've built my business on putting the customer BEFORE the technology, which is one of the biggest gripes about IT in this country.
Particularly for the small business owner.

Please accept the fact that this customer won't be getting SME this time.

So for now I have to use a different distro.


Regards,
Bert

[janet]

Bert Rolston

... my customers like to see a GUI.
[user@machinename ~]$       is a little too scary when they hook up a monitor to do something on the server.

There is a option to auto login as admin, which may reduce the visual angst.

A quick search of the forums found this
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,39846.0.html
which says
config set ConsoleMode auto
signal-event console-save

That way when the server starts up it will automatically login as admin, and then they won't see the so called "scary" command line prompt, but will see the text style graphical console menu, from which they can then select server manager.

To set that back to default ie command prompt requiring a manual login, do
config set ConsoleMode login
signal-event console-save

Also whenever a user does find themselves at a command prompt and is unsure what to do, they can issue the command
console
to get back to the admin console menu (ie the "nice friendly non scary user interface").

[johnp]

Seems you are selling to those too low on the purse strings. Maybe you should try to pitch to those that can think and make decisions.

Yes the initial setup is via the console, but when done it is rare that the common user has to deal with it. I'm sure your common user isn't making major changes via some gui on a Win box.

It is a shame to see someone look elsewhere for a solution which requires more effort, but some will rise above and some will fall.

[Bert Rolston]

Thanks all,

As a wise man once told me "Pick the hills you are willing to die on."
This hill isn't worth dying on.

One of MY company aims is that the PERSON is more important than the technology.

I COULD give a full run down on the customer, and all the PERSON related dynamics. The thing is I don't have to justify the decision to the forum.

It's my company, my customer, and my decision.

When the time and their NEED is right I WILL introduce them to SME. By then they will understand why a GUI isn't necessary.

I appreciate your feedback AND the technical reasons why GNOME won't work on SME.

I already knew a little about the templates / underlying architecture as I have seen e-Smith mentioned in passing on other forums more than 5 years ago.


BTW
The reason I suggested SME first is BECAUSE I run one myself with HORDE installed for webmail and shared calendars.