Topic: rude moderators

[phredd]

I just read the recent thread about nano.

Interesting that the moderators chose to shut the thread down, Charlie Brady getting the last (incorrect) word.

Charlie said, "cactus gave and answer, and then said "please take the trouble to search".

No - what cactus said was, "Please try and investigate some more yourself instead of raising every question you have here. How hard would it have been to just type nano and hit enter and then see for yourself?"

This is a slam on Newburns. Pure and simple. No other way to look at it.

There are many good reasons that SME is in decline, not the least of which is the lack of people skills on the part of the developers. Charlie is downright curt and rude most of the time. Now cactus is joining him.

I have moved on and away from SME. Not because it isn't useful, but because this forum's attitude toward people who need help is pathetic. You will continue to see SME fall behind other similar products because you have failed to help people who know less than you.

[Stefano]

interesting post.. first one.. does it add something usefull?

you say "have moved on and away from SME"; just for curiosity, what takes you here again?

[phredd]

Good point.

Curiosity, mainly. To see if anything has changed. I have used SME from 5.x-on (and have contributed a modest amount of money to the project) and have seen over the years a growing lack of tolerance of people who are just seeking help. That and the glacial pace of development meant that I just can't  stay with SME any more.

[Stefano]

Curiosity, mainly.

oh, yes..

have seen over the years a growing lack of tolerance of people

phredd, SME is a server distribution.. I know that is one of the easiest distro to create a enterprise class server but.. but if you see a "growinlg lack of tolerance", I see a growing laziness of the people coming here, asking for help without giving any detail, without having spent a single minute searching the forums/wiki, without ever looking at the documentation.

If you ask me "what editor can I use on SME8 because I see pico is not there?" and I answer you simply "nano", I expect you to go to your console and type "nano [enter]".. nothing more, nothing less.. I expect you to search here and there (Google knows almost everything).. I expect that you, as a new forum user (and maybe as a newbie linux user), have a humble attitude toward of who is trying to help you..for FREE, in the spare time.

some users think that the forum is an helpdesk: they come here, ask, ask, ask.. may I say that sometimes this kind of attitude is tedious and irritating?

[phredd]

(sigh)
I rest my case.

[Stefano]

(sigh)
I rest my case.

do you think I'm rude with you?

[phredd]

No, but you don't seem to think that newburns had a right to ask a question that could be very simply answered without slamming him for not searching. Or just say, "google the word nano" or "type 'nano' on the console". Just that simply. Sooner or later it will sink into him/her that, "oh, google really IS my friend". But instead, he is one more person who has been spanked by the powers that be here for being a noob.

It's happened to me, too. I have become very leery of asking questions because I got tired of being told, "NOT HERE - IN THE BUG TRACKER!", or "silly noob! search first!", even after I have searched or am not sure if it's a bug or just my noobness. Even with a problem with this website's functions - "use the bug tracker". What? Who would know that?

This site is not easy to use. Using google for a search engine was a step in the right direction, but searches do not always bring up answers, and often I have had to ask questions that were met with the scorn of others here. Why would anyone want to put themselves through it?

You mentioned that this is my first post(s). I use another name, but charlie seems to delight in pouncing on me. I decided to be anonymous.

I don't bring this stuff up lightly or flippantly. I see it as a cancer that you folks need to address. This is the only forum of it's kind that I feel that I can't fully participate in because of being slammed for asking a dumb question and don't think that I am alone in my views.

[janet]

Hey phredd

(Editing my post after seeing your answer above).

I do not see you giving any useful answers to noobs, or to anyone else for that matter. OK then so I read you are hiding under a different name.
If you start answering questions here on a regular basis it would be a better use of your creativity than criticising "the style" of those who do answer questions.

You and all participants in this forum need to grasp the fact that any answer, when given for free, should be appreciated by the recipient, even if they do not like the answer.

As far as being emotionally reactive to answers, in many cases that is simply inappropriate. Written text with or without emoticons cannot possibly convey emotion, so therefore when recipients apply a negative connotation, it seems to me to be based on their own emotional persona or attitudinal perspective, rather than that of the poster (who gave an answer).

What is really so bad with saying, please search the forum as you will find many answers ?
What's so wrong with answering so succintly in one word ie nano ?

Let's not pretend that users of this forum are dumb or stupid or uneducated, they are all here because they have installed or are using sme server. That requires some degree of technical knowledge or understanding beyond the ability of many "average" people.

So let's not pretend that noob users are "babies in nappies", they are definitely not. They are clever people to have setup a sme server, and clearly have a working brain, it's just that many "newer" users do not appreciate the use of various tools such as how to do proper searches etc etc etc.

....And let's all stop reacting emotionally to posts that are made.

[phredd]

I just said that I not using my usual name. I have helped here where I can and when I feel I know some answers.

"Any answer, when given for free, should be appreciated by the recipient, even if they do not like the answer."

That attitude is part of the problem. Sure, any help should be appreciated. But does a noob have to suffer the gauntlet at the same time? How often does it have to happen before people start to think, "Why put up with it when the folks elsewhere are friendlier?"

[CharlieBrady]

I just said that I not using my usual name.

Yes, that come as no surprise. You keep promising to move on - please do.

[phredd]

And I expected no less from you, Charlie.

Countdown to shutting this thread down in 3..2..1..

[Stefano]

No, but you don't seem to think that newburns had a right to ask a question that could be very simply answered without slamming him for not searching.

phredd.. you are putting too many energies to defend newburns.. sounds strange..

Or just say, "google the word nano".

no, I said

I expect you to go to your console and type "nano [enter]"

it's a bit different..

Just that simply. Sooner or later it will sink into him/her that, "oh, google really IS my friend". But instead, he is one more person who has been spanked by the powers that be here for being a noob.

no one will spank you if you are a noob.. you will be spanked if you come here, make 10 questions and demonstrate a lazy attitude

It's happened to me, too. I have become very leery of asking questions because I got tired of being told, "NOT HERE - IN THE BUG TRACKER!", or "silly noob! search first!", even after I have searched or am not sure if it's a bug or just my noobness. Even with a problem with this website's functions - "use the bug tracker". What? Who would know that?

sincerely, I think nobody told you "silly noob".. you've been told to search..
about bug tracker.. the rule is "if something doesn't work out-of-the-box, please open a bug".. is it so difficult to understand?
and yes, this is also valid for website.

This site is not easy to use. Using google for a search engine was a step in the right direction, but searches do not always bring up answers, and often I have had to ask questions that were met with the scorn of others here. Why would anyone want to put themselves through it?

did you open a bug for this? did you try to make some suggestion to make tih site better? did you ever tried to think that there are hundreds people coming here and that is not easy to please them all?
you could help this project simply collaborating to it..

You mentioned that this is my first post(s). I use another name, but charlie seems to delight in pouncing on me. I decided to be anonymous.

this is called morphing and it's really a bad thing to do.. and I'm sure that charlie doesn't like to be "bad"

I don't bring this stuff up lightly or flippantly. I see it as a cancer that you folks need to address. This is the only forum of it's kind that I feel that I can't fully participate in because of being slammed for asking a dumb question and don't think that I am alone in my views.

well, everybody here was a noob some time ago, me too.. but I never felt I'm being slammed here, even where I was told to search.. and no one told me that I'm a silly noob..  you seem a bit too sensitive to me..aren't you?
do you react the same way in the real life?

[phredd]

I do think I have hit a nerve.

[phredd]

...well, everybody here was a noob some time ago, me too.. but I never felt I'm being slammed here, even where I was told to search.. ...

And I didn't either, years ago. I do now.

[janet]

phredd

Apologies for reposting this part of my earlier answer as it may have got lost in the many rapid responses.

As far as being emotionally reactive to answers, in many cases that is simply inappropriate. Written text with or without emoticons cannot possibly convey emotion, so therefore when recipients apply a negative connotation, it seems to me to be based on their own emotional persona or attitudinal perspective, rather than that of the poster (who gave an answer).

What is really so bad with saying, please search the forum as you will find many answers ?
What's so wrong with answering so succintly in one word ie nano ?

Let's not pretend that users of this forum are dumb or stupid or uneducated, they are all here because they have installed or are using sme server. That requires some degree of technical knowledge or understanding beyond the ability of many "average" people.

So let's not pretend that noob users are "babies in nappies", they are definitely not. They are clever people to have setup a sme server, and clearly have a working brain, it's just that many "newer" users do not appreciate the use of various tools such as how to do proper searches etc etc etc.

....And let's all stop reacting emotionally to posts that are made.