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SME 8 release

Offline bas60

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SME 8 release
« on: January 18, 2011, 12:43:00 PM »
I know SME8 is in final beta.... 

I'm looking at moving a customer from Windows 2000 to SME Server over the next couple of months.

Should I be looking at SME 8 or stick with 7.51

Is there likely to be an upgrade path?




Offline byte

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 04:25:14 PM »
Quote
Should I be looking at SME 8 or stick with 7.51

As its a production environment you should use SME Server 7.5.1, as SME Server 8 is still in beta (although some will say its production ready) final choice is of course yours to make :)

Quote
Is there likely to be an upgrade path?

There will be an upgrade path yes.
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Offline erroneus

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 11:59:09 PM »
Is SME8 "production ready" for you?  That's something only you and your confidence with Linux and e-smith can determine.  If you are more of a "uses admin tools, can do backups and can follow directions" type of person, then perhaps 7.5.1 is good for you at the moment.  But if you are like me?  SME8b6 is more than good enough.  SME8 has become a work that SME developers can be proud of, but as it tends to be with developers, it's never quite ready enough.  And perhaps there ARE some known issues that might be classified as "show stoppers" for some.  I haven't experienced any of those issues yet though.

Offline bas60

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 10:26:41 AM »
Yes I am one those "uses admin tools, can do backups and can follow directions" type person....

Although I will dabble...

Since my post I have installed and played with SME8beta6 - so far so good.... its looks and feels & smells like 7.51 - not goood ! [IMHO]

I have a background in Novell for Server  - Novell ...who ??? I hear you say??

Well it was one of those companies that had an attitude - they knew what was best for users to have
(in other words couldn't care less "techy" attitudes which is all to common)

For years I have been saying give users what they want - not what you think they want!!!

SME Server is a great product and I appreciate the efforts of ALL the developers & I'm sure the it will continue to be well supported and used.



   

Offline byte

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 10:54:02 AM »
Since my post I have installed and played with SME8beta6 - so far so good.... its looks and feels & smells like 7.51 - not goood ! [IMHO]

Although you say "looks, feels and smells like 7.5.1" SME Server 8b6 does have quite a few major updates, one being the support for joining win7 clients.
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Offline bas60

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 11:12:52 AM »

I haven't tried that yet...

Actually I didn't appreciate Windows 7 was a problem with 7.51


Offline erroneus

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2011, 12:33:59 PM »
Yes, moving forward, the Win7 issue is an important and inescapable requirement.  Make no mistake about it, it is as much of a necessary incremental upgrade as is upgrading PHP and MySQL is... which SME8 also offers.  I guess I should have taken that angle as well -- SME8 is an important incremental update to SME 7.x.  Why is it a whole version number higher if it is an incremental update?  It is based on CentOS5.x rather than 4.x.  I don't see any major changes in e-smith or its behaviors -- that would mark a serious change in the way SME behaves in my opinion.  LDAP integration improvements are another serious upgrade mark from 7.x to 8 as well.  Those things may not be what is important to you.

In any case, I think it would come as no surprise that it is recommended that you put SME8b6 through all of its conceivable paces for your needs (and maybe some that go beyond your needs) to see if there are any serious blocks.  I have observed that contribs from 7.x work quite well and even (especially) the more radical ones that require upgrades to newer PHP and MySQL versions since they are already present in SME8.  But since Win7 support is important to you, I would pay attention to that and to login scripts and the like.  I believe there are still some registry tweaks required -- could be wrong on that though.

Offline polarair

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 10:24:09 AM »
But the question realy is how long till the new SME 8 will be Released
live is to short not to enjoy it :lol: ......

Offline byte

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 10:27:43 AM »
But the question realy is how long till the new SME 8 will be Released

And the usual answer is...it will be done when its done, we do not have a roadmap of release dates due to the very, very, very low number of actual testers.
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Offline Jáder

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 12:49:34 PM »
Hi Byte

I'd like to help in Q&A, debug, verifying bugs... anything I could help without program anything.
I have spare/old machines (P3) to install, external HDDs , USB, lot of toys to test.

I just do not know how to "adopt" bugs and help to speed up SME8 testing to move it to a RC/final release.

I'd like  a wiki page showing how to get a bug and test it (confirm/verify) and how to return that info to developers so bug can be closed (are you beliving what I'll say or do I need to prove it and how??)

regards

Jáder
...

Offline bas60

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 02:10:36 PM »
Yes, I can help too...

What do you want to test - I have access to over 50 PC's / Servers
anything from P4 (sorry no PIII) to Intel QuadCore Xeon and AMD too
my newest toy is HP Microserver

IDE / SATA / SCSI - Adaptec, LSI controllers
Gigabyte, Intel, Biostar, ASRock Motherboards

lots of different manufacturers stuff 

Hate to be an absolute Neanderthal and guess it will start a flame !

Don't see what the hold up is?

There's little or no "external" improvements..

smacks of technical ....

Let me say I think SME server is a great "Product"

One of the problems with Novell was good Technically but never considered the end users who generally wants flashy stuff, new stuff.... and Will pay for it

Get people to pay a SMALL amount and have a paid support option

Apple's Server costs £ 120 Trade, AppStore apps are cheap - some FREE

I'd hate for SME server to become like Novell - irrelevant...

here is awaiting flame ....

Offline Jáder

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 03:19:18 PM »
I'm an Novell orfan too... would like to help SME8 move forward and see final release.

Please developers, tell us how to help test , verify bugs, ... and we'll help!

Jáder
...

Offline cactus

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 07:31:27 PM »
I just do not know how to "adopt" bugs and help to speed up SME8 testing to move it to a RC/final release.
Just have a go at one you think is doable, if you are having doubts or questions, please raise them in the bug so we can give you guidance in testing and verifying.

I'd like  a wiki page showing how to get a bug and test it (confirm/verify) and how to return that info to developers so bug can be closed
That might be a good thing, I am not sure if there is one ATM, but in general you can get a good idea by looking at recently verified bugs.

(are you beliving what I'll say or do I need to prove it and how??)
In principle the process is pretty straight forward.
  • First using the faulty package proof the problem can be reproduced on your testing system, be methodical here and test all variations and permutations of a bug and/or functionality which might be touched by it. Being methodical will help you in the next steps. Also show the current version of affected packages.
  • Now perform the upgrade
  • After the upgrade show that the affected packages are really updated and retest functionality in the same way you did before when showing the actual problem could be triggered on your system. Report every abnormality you observe in the bug or in a new bug report (if the problem is different and not related). Once again be sure to test all variations and combination, do show that problem is gone but also make care no undesired side effects are occurring.
  • When you feel satisfied that you have done verification properly toggle the status of the bug to VERIFIED, if not and issues that need to be addressed REOPEN or OPEN a new bug. If in doubt, just ask. We would like you to help us test our fixes and will certainly help you in trying to do so.

If the old packages are unavailable it might be hard to reproduce the original problem, but be sure to test that with the updated packages in place the problem is fixed and does not occur anymore.

If you will have a look at the bugs we have VERIFIED you will see we try and stick to a certain template, we would ask you to try and do so as well when verifying bugs, this will help you not to forget certain steps and will help you structure verification.

Finally here is the filer showing bugs VERIFIED for SME Server 7.5+ and SME Server 8, just to see how we do verification as an example.

If you would like to find out which bugs you could work on to verify either look in the matrix and find the bugs that are in a state RESOLVED FIXED or click for SME Server 7 or SME Server 8.
Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than its worth ~ Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)

Offline cactus

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 07:36:33 PM »
Don't see what the hold up is?
Mainly lack of testers helping us migrate bugs from FIXED to VERIFIED.

Get people to pay a SMALL amount and have a paid support option
That would be an option, but at the moment most of us are doing this next to our daytime jobs as hobby in our spare time, for the simple reason that is hard to gain a stedy income from doing as you suggest.

here is awaiting flame ....
Woooosshhh... eternal flame ;-)
Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than its worth ~ Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)

Offline cactus

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Re: SME 8 release
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 07:52:10 PM »
I'd like  a wiki page showing how to get a bug and test it (confirm/verify) and how to return that info to developers so bug can be closed (are you beliving what I'll say or do I need to prove it and how??)
I will start documenting this the next few days if I can find the time, for now I have put up a place holder for it:
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:QA

Feel free to add links to sources on verifying, testing etc. that we might already have available and which I might not be aware of.
Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than its worth ~ Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)