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mail-account for Groups

Offline detlevp

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mail-account for Groups
« on: October 06, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »
Hello,

i have created a group "office" und arrange a couple of members. I want to connect in a Mail-Client (eGroupware) to the Group-Account "office" automatic for each member. Have the group "office" a own Mail-Account?  Can i use this account with webmail? What are the login-date.

Has anyone a tipp for me? Sorry for my enlish.

Regards Detlev

Offline janet

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2012, 10:05:19 PM »
detlevp

Users who are members of the group named office, will automatically receive a copy of any email sent to office@yourdomain.com

Email clients ie egroupware or whatever are not able to access Groups,
as email clients and Webmail can only access individual User accounts.

If you want mutiple users to access an email account called office (ideally using IMAP), then create a user named office, rather than a group. Note you will have to delete the existing office group before you can create the office user. The office user could be configured to deliver locally and forward to a group called say office2, which is configured to forward to multiple users ie user1, user2, user3 etc (if that's what you really need or want to do).
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
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Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 04:56:03 PM »
Hi mary,

thanks for your help.
Users who are members of the group named office, will automatically receive a copy of any email sent to office@yourdomain.com
I can not confirm unfortunately. In webmail, the messages that are sent to office, not sent to the members.

Email clients ie egroupware or whatever are not able to access Groups,
as email clients and Webmail can only access individual User accounts.
In the LDAP directory (slapcat -v) can I find for each group (dn: cn=office,ou=Groups,dc=domain,dc=com)
a mail entry "mail: office@domain.com". Can I use this mail entry and how can I call this in Webmail?
Why can not the Webmail access the groups and members. I get the message
"Adding users is not possible.
Your authentication system does not allow adding new users. If you want to use Horde to manage your users, you need to use a different authentication drivers."

But when I search in the address book, I find the groups and members of LDAP.


If you want mutiple users to access an email account called office (ideally using IMAP), then create a user named office, rather than a group. Note you will have to delete the existing office group before you can create the office user. The office user could be configured to deliver locally and forward to a group called say office2, which is configured to forward to multiple users ie user1, user2, user3 etc (if that's what you really need or want to do).
I had already implemented this way, but that makes little sense, when I create a group as a member.

I have also tried with "shared folder", but I'm here not further. I have created a ibay. In LDAP there has also a own Mailaddress. But where or how can I use this mail folder. Applies the password, which I put on the group?
Regards Detlev
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 05:14:12 PM by detlevp »

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 05:30:26 PM »
Is there a way, a group that was created in Server-Manager to create a password? Can i sign up via webmail with a group account? in the LDAP every group has a mail-address.

Offline Stefano

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 09:07:31 PM »
Is there a way, a group that was created in Server-Manager to create a password? Can i sign up via webmail with a group account? in the LDAP every group has a mail-address.

no

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 10:10:49 PM »

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 10:54:00 PM »
If you want mutiple users to access an email account called office (ideally using IMAP), then create a user named office, rather than a group. Note you will have to delete the existing office group before you can create the office user. The office user could be configured to deliver locally and forward to a group called say office2, which is configured to forward to multiple users ie user1, user2, user3 etc (if that's what you really need or want to do).

 I read also the following instructions at Pseudonyms:
"Likewise, when you create a group account, that group account name functions as an email alias, so that messages addressed to the group ID will be sent to all members of the group. If, for example, you create a group called "sales", messages to "sales@mycompany.xxx" will be distributed automatically to all members of that group. As you add and remove members to the group, your server automatically updates the email alias."

That certainly can not be the solution.
Any mail that is answered by a member lands in the personal "Sent" folder. This is a traditional media-fraction, the other members can not see the answer mail. Correct it would be if all members of a group to access an IMAP account and email responses are sent via the IMAP account. Or I'm lying here completely wrong?

Regards Detlev

Offline janet

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 12:28:36 AM »
detlevp

I gave you correct answers in my first reply but you have either ignored or misunderstood or denied what I said. I suggest you read my answer again very carefully.

If sending an email to the office group does not result in the message being forwarded to all the users in that group, then you have either set something up incorrectly or have a faulty system or have a bug.

You need to more specifically tell us what you did to create and test the office group email function.
I assume you are creating the group & users in server manager, correct ?

I repeat my earlier answers in a hopefully more understandable way.
Email clients including webmail are NOT able to login to a Group (as an account), so you are NOT able to do what you are asking.

The only way to achieve access to a common account called office, is to create a User named office.
Then configure each individual user account (who wants access to the office email folders) to access the same office user mail folders by configuring the email client to use IMAP. You can do this with Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Thunderbird & most other email clients etc. I am not sure if this is supported in egroupware (ie the ability to access multiple users email accounts via IMAP protocol), it's been a long time since I used egroupware.

I am also not aware whether this can be achieved in Horde webmail, as I have not tried it, but I think webmail can only access email for the account the user is logged in as.

So if you insist to use webmail, then different people would have to login via webmail to the office user account. I am not sure if webmail behaves correctly with multiple concurrent logins as the same user (the office User in this case), so check this to your satisfaction.

As you note, if you use a Group or Pseudonym to forward the office mail to other users, then the Sent (& all other) mail folders will not be common.

Having individual users directly accessing the office User account via IMAP is the only way to have a common set of email folders (including Sent folder) shared by multiple users.

The issue or question you are really asking is "How do I share those folders amongst many users ?"

I believe that question has been answered here, & has limited ways it can be achieved.

You will have to modify your approach to resolving this, as it cannot be achieved in the way you originally proposed.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 02:47:42 AM by mary »
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
The Search & other links to useful information are at top of Forum.

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 03:51:40 PM »
Hi Mary, thank you for your detailed answer.


I gave you correct answers in my first reply but you have either ignored or misunderstood or denied what I said. I suggest you read my answer again very carefully.
I lid does when I'm not on your last posting in more detail. My problem is that my English is so bad that I could not perform adequate discussion to explain well to my concerns. But I understand your text very well. I have almost four hours deals extensively with this subject. I also believe that to understand the topic EMail very well.

If sending an email to the office group does not result in the message being forwarded to all the users in that group, then you have either set something up incorrectly or have a faulty system or have a bug.

You need to more specifically tell us what you did to create and test the office group email function.
I assume you are creating the group & users in server manager, correct ?

Yes.
I try to explain the issue to gradually times:

1. I have a email-account office@domain.com at a Provider xyz. All member have a account at the same Provider
2. In my SME-Server i have users with her own account as the provider
3. I have a group named office and a cuple of users are member of this group
4. I use Fetchmail to fetch Mails from the Provider
5. I can't fetch Mails from the user office@domain.com to a group named grp_office@domain.com (mail-address), only at a user.
6. in webmail only every user can connect with his own user-mail-account.

The only way to achieve access to a common account called office, is to create a User named office.
Then configure each individual user account (who wants access to the office email folders) to access the same office user mail folders by configuring the email client to use IMAP. You can do this with Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, Thunderbird & most other email clients etc. I am not sure if this is supported in egroupware (ie the ability to access multiple users email accounts via IMAP protocol), it's been a long time since I used egroupware.

ok, I understand, and that's exactly what I also used forever.

I am also not aware whether this can be achieved in Horde webmail, as I have not tried it, but I think webmail can only access email for the account the user is logged in as.

Horde Webmail is absolutely not my favorite. It serves me just to test the mail access.

So if you insist to use webmail, then different people would have to login via webmail to the office user account. I am not sure if webmail behaves correctly with multiple concurrent logins as the same user (the office User in this case), so check this to your satisfaction.
This would not be necessary, it would not make sense.

As you note, if you use a Group or Pseudonym to forward the office mail to other users, then the Sent (& all other) mail folders will not be common.
This is the wrong terminology. I want to route/forward the mails, I want the user to access the group-account uniformly.

Having individual users directly accessing the office User account via IMAP is the only way to have a common set of email folders (including Sent folder) shared by multiple users.
Ok, this is just what works in any IMAP-enabled mail clients. I would in addition to the user account a group account. This is the default, and this works always.

The question remains to what is in LDAP the entry for a group or a shared folder (eg ibay)? Can an email being sent to the email address of the group? Therefore came my question at can the fetchmail mail from user office@domain.com can collect the email address of the group.

The whole issue has a cause. I use eGroupware at my SME Server. In eGW i have a mailclient (felamimail). For all members of a group I manually add the account-data (IMAP-Informationen) from the group and must have everywhere the same parameters are set. Changed a parameter, it must be adapted it in all accounts. It would be better if set up only one point, namely the group's account and all group members would use the entry. But that is surely not the task of SME Server.

I therefore apologize if I have caused confusion.

Regards and Thanks
Detlev

Offline Stefano

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 04:08:53 PM »
detlevp:

you already have:
- a remote email account office@domain.com
- a local group grp_office@domain.com

create a user, say usr_office, and configure it to forward emails to grp_office@domain.com
then configure fetchmail for usr_office user to fetch mails for remote office@domain.com

just remember that:
- you need domain.com to be setup on your SME server
- remote mail server (lets say pop3.domain.com) must be manually added in "hostnames and addresses" panel in server-manager, ad it must be a remote server pointing to remote ip; fetchmail must point to it

you're done

and yes, if remote user send an email to office@domain.com, it will work..

if you move your MX record to your server, each group name (i.e. groupname@yourdomain.tld) is a valid email address

HTH

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 06:50:04 PM »
Hi Stefano,

Thanks for your help.
you already have:
- a remote email account office@domain.com
- a local group grp_office@domain.com

create a user, say usr_office, and configure it to forward emails to grp_office@domain.com
then configure fetchmail for usr_office user to fetch mails for remote office@domain.com
But the result is about the same as Mary's proposal.
The inboxes would be distributed to the members - I have not tried it yet - but here is exactly the media break. Answered  a member of one of these emails, see the other members of this not.

and yes, if remote user send an email to office@domain.com, it will work..

if you move your MX record to your server, each group name (i.e. groupname@yourdomain.tld) is a valid email address

That is good news. But the mailbox of the group will be an IMAP-enabled account, or the mails, as described above, only distributed?

Regards Detlev

Offline Stefano

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 06:58:35 PM »
I'm sorry, but I'm a little bit confused..

I my personal and professional experience, I use a single account (user account like info@, office@ etc) and a shared imap account.. so all the people involved use/share the same imap account..

I have an info@ account shared between 10 user, about 20 GB, about 44k messages.. no issues
sincerely, I can't see your problem

use a single user account created ad-hoc for shared email addresses; groups and their email account must be considered as "distribution list"

all IMVHO

Offline detlevp

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 07:14:02 PM »
Stefano,
I'm sorry, but I'm a little bit confused..

I understand your confusion. Basically everything is correct as you described and I also work exactly as you describe it.

The problem is only that you have to set up all party members the IMAP account. Right? In MS Outlook and other IMAP-enabled clients, this is not to do otherwise.

It would be nice if in a "smart" groupware system in which there is a group functionality, all members of a group automatically in this IMAP account would have access. Do you understand what I mean? It's hard for me to formulate my problem in English

Regards Detlev

Offline Stefano

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Re: mail-account for Groups
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 07:33:21 PM »
Stefano,
I understand your confusion. Basically everything is correct as you described and I also work exactly as you describe it.

The problem is only that you have to set up all party members the IMAP account. Right? In MS Outlook and other IMAP-enabled clients, this is not to do otherwise.

It would be nice if in a "smart" groupware system in which there is a group functionality, all members of a group automatically in this IMAP account would have access. Do you understand what I mean? It's hard for me to formulate my problem in English

Regards Detlev

this sounds clear to me..
AFAIK with dovecot (imap server running on SME) this is not possible; there are imap servers (cyrus IIRC, but I could be wrong) that allow to login as a user and "see" maildir of another one.. think about an admin user..