Topic: Backup Solutions

[newburns]

Is it possible to have a better solution for backing up? I know most who use their SME within a VM, and, as of yet, I can't find a decent backup workflow that will maximize space with automatic configurations.
AFFA would have been nice, if it actually worked as expected. However, I love the ideal workflow behind it.
I may not be utilizing the current backup procedures properly, but, if not, I would like a feature request for the new Koozali. Something that is ideal in a VM. Possibly something that rsyncs to a NAS/SAN, or HA setup that can be utilized in a VM that uses a NAS/SAN. Or, even like AFFA, an exact duplicate of a single/multiple server.

[Stefano]

I think this post has nothing to do with the topic of this forum

in any case, please define:
- why Affa doesn't work as expected
- what do you expect

will move to general discussion

[newburns]

I have had issues with AFFA restores.
I have SME 8 64bit restoring 1.8TB of data. Apparantly, AFFA is supposed to use hardlinks when doing a RISE, and rsync when doing a --full-restore. I understand --full-restore is not the supported way to recover from a server malfunction onto a new clean base installation ( http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7681 -- http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7687 ).

An AFFA --rise uses hardlinks, however, I do not believe this is sufficient for users and home files. When the files are copied to the appropriate places and hierarchy, the system seems to work fine.
Whatever the case, AFFA does not operate as suggested in the WIKI, and the issues that arise are normally after a server malfunction. Which is not a good time to start debugging

[idp_qbn]

I do not believe this [AFFA] is sufficient for users and home files.

and

AFFA does not operate as suggested in the WIKI

Goodnes me! In what way? I have used the affa --rise several times (at least 5) and never had a problem.

I have even used the partial and full restore functions (sounds like I have had a lot of problems but I look after several systems and I have to test ....) and AFFA has never given me any grief.

But then again, I just wanted a simple backup system that allows recovery as well as the ability to quickly morph the backup system into the production server by following a few simple, clear instructions. (They are in the AFFA wiki). Suits me.

Good luck with your quest, whenever you can clearly enunciate it. This is not meant to be a criticism - I do wish you well. Tell us clearly what the problem is and people will help find a solution.

Cheers
Ian

[newburns]

I thought I was being clear.

Issue: Automated backup solution that resemebles or replaces a High Availability Scenario
Possible Solution: AFFA backup performs automated backup using rsync. Beneficial using links to keep the total capacity down. Backups performed according to WIKI.

Errors with solution: AFFA --restore performed a Pre-Restore command and rsynced the data to production server. Users were not accessible for use and I was instructed that the --full-restore was not the proper way to do a recovery from backup. I should have used affa --rise. So, I duplicated my SME AFFA Server and performed a --rise-all. This resulted in users and email issues which are noted in some bugs ( http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6983 ).

This may be an issue of how many users were restored (over 20). Their password strength not being the appropriate standard, as this was changed with http://wiki.contribs.org/Password_Strength, or a number of other things. You can see the progress of my attempts to debug this issue.

However, aside from the AFFA restoration, AFFA would have been the perfect solution. But if it does not restore properly, there is no point in using it.
I am setting up a new Proxmox server, and I want to elect the best backup solution. Either backup through Proxmox snapshot, CARP/HAST the NAS that will hold the VM, or use a backup native to SME. Right now, I am gearing towards a the Proxmox Snapshot/Backup solution, but I miss the rsync functions of utilizing as little disc space as possible. That allows to have more rotating backups/snapshots in storage that does not need x2 or x3 overhead. That is why I am asking/investigating backups native to SME. Then my SME servers will have more rotating backups and a small downtime window for restoration (according to AFFA) .

[Brave Dave]

I have more confidence in affa than any other backup I use - it works

Coupled with shadow copies to give the user some recovery ability

the logic of the system (take a copy of a file if it has changed) tells you it works

[janet]

newburns

Look here (for i386)
http://distro.ibiblio.org/smeserver/releases/obsolete/7.6/smecontribs/i386/RPMS/
and you will see
smeserver-rdiff-backup

It's a backup solution created by Gordon Rowell for sme server and is used/favoured by professional support personnel who have business associations with Gordon.

I think there are install & setup notes somewhere on these forums so search, or I think I have them in my tech support notes if you cannot find anything.

It is a rsync type solution, but uses command line only to set it up etc, so it is good for remote support via ssh.

It's used by the pros so it's reliable & robust.

Re Affa
I have not looked at the Affa issues (but will do one day soon), but would suggest that you use the generic v3 Affa available from another site (refer Wiki), which is a more recent (& maintained) release than the v2 Affa release that smecontribs uses.
Perhaps the bugs are in v2 & that's why there is a v3 ???
See
http://wiki.nikoforge.org/How_to_move_Affa_from_SME-Server_to_a_Server_with_Affa_V3
and http://wiki.nikoforge.org/Talk:How_to_move_Affa_from_SME-Server_to_a_Server_with_Affa_V3

[sti]

what about the --rise option in AFFA v3 (it's not in documentation)

I am a the moment looking for a good backup-solution (and not familiar with AFFA)
in case of a desaster it seems to be a importend function...rigth ?

best regards

[newburns]

My understanding is that AFFA v3 will not do a proper Rise because it is not an SME installation. The files and templates are not in place to do a rise.
Again, this is my understanding. I'm not sure about the truth.

You can do a --full-restore with AFFA v3 (From my understanding)

[idp_qbn]

I think AFFA is a wonderful add-on for SME, mainly because of the multiple backups and (most importantly) the RISE feature.

Fancy that -  a 20 minute turn-around to recover from a failed server!
When you have over 600Gb of data (I have) it can take hours to do a full restore over the home network.

Is there any way we can get the AFFA v2 contrib (the one that runs on SME and includes RISE) updated to V3?

I would like to help but have no coding skills in Linux. I can (and do) contribute money if that helps.

Would this be a New Feature request, or is it outside the SME parameters?

Cheers
Ian

[janet]

idp_qbn

I may be stating what you already now, you seem to be reasonably clued up around here.

Is there any way we can get the AFFA v2 contrib (the one that runs on SME and includes RISE) updated to V3?

Is there any need for it (v2) to be updated ?
If v2 works fine, & does not have known bugs or wrong coding, is an upgraded version needed ?
Did the affa code need to be updated to suit newer versions of sme server, ie were things done subtly different etc in the "new" sme OS, so therefore some changes were needed in Affa code ?

I do not specifically know the answers to those questions.

It seems v3 is a totally different beast, v2 was more integrated with sme server (as well as being able to be used on other server OS's), whereas v3 has dropped specific sme server support/functionality. I think I recall reading a good while ago that the original author went away from using sme server, so therefore produced a more generic version of Affa ie v3.

Is there anything in v3 that is needed by current v2 users & is not in v2 ?

I read some suggestions of bugs with affa v2 but never experienced those myself.

Would this be a New Feature request, or is it outside the SME parameters?

It's not part of the base code, so is an external contrib, & therefore in the hands of whoever wants to rewrite the code.

[idp_qbn]

Thanks for the quick reply, Janet.

AFFA v2 works for me and I have had no problems. As I said, I really like the RISE feature.

I only asked because others have reported problems, especially to do with hardlinks - I think they were using SME 8.
Once again, I use SME 8 on real boxes (not virtual) and have had no problems with recovery - or at least none that I have noticed. 

I was responding to the concerns voiced by others....and I probably should not. I ended up just adding to the clatter.


Cheers
Ian

[chris burnat]

Thanks for the quick reply, Janet.

AFFA v2 works for me and I have had no problems. As I said, I really like the RISE feature.

I only asked because others have reported problems, especially to do with hardlinks - I think they were using SME 8.
Once again, I use SME 8 on real boxes (not virtual) and have had no problems with recovery - or at least none that I have noticed. 

I was responding to the concerns voiced by others....and I probably should not. I ended up just adding to the clatter.


Cheers
Ian

Ian, you comments about affa 2 working for you including the raise feature are good news.  I am aware of some reports of problems at Bugzilla, if you have time, can you please post your experience on relevant tickets.
Thanks.

[sti]

...according to this discussion (thanks)

I will setup a native Backup-server with SME 8 and AFFA 2.
then additional questions arise...

My production- fileserver: raid 5  (hardware-raid) with 10 ( TB.
Is a software-raid for the SME-backupserver ok ?

since I am still not familiar with AFFA...
AFFA does not do full backups, it only does incremental backups, right ?

how do your backup plans look like, and how many space is needed ?

best regards

 

 

[janet]

sti

The hardware used by the dedicated backup server is not so important, you can use software RAID, just ensure there is enough disk capacity.

AFFA does not do full backups, it only does incremental backups, right ?

Incorrect, the first backup is a full backup. You specify how many incremental "daily" backups are done using the Scheduled, Daily, Weekly & Yearly settings.
If you want, Affa will do a full backup every day or even multiple times per day (if data & time allowed), or as infrequently as every few years, backup hard disk space allowing, with incrementals done every day for a few years.

Please read the Contrib Affa wiki article, it gives indications of size usage

Backup hard disk size will depend on how long you want to retain backup data for ie original full backup plus many daily incrementals.