Topic: Legality of Transfer of assets from SME ?

[purvis]

Because of a locked thread on some voting. I am posting here.

From previous experience of an effort in a non profit organization to sell it's assets equaling millions of dollars and cash on hand equaling miliions of dollars.
The president and chairman of the board called for an illegal Vote by the board of directors to sell the non profit organization to themselves.  The vote by the board of directors passed.

The vote has to come from its membership and not the board of directors to do that.
Even though I don't see SME as owning much now.
I don't think the board of directors do not have any right to transfer ownership to another organization under less a proper vote with proper time to be notified and proper time to vote is given.
That usually means two months at the minimum of time.

From a lawsuiit to the hostile effort, to sell the non profit organization and it's  assets to another entity was denied in court and the desicision was upheld in an appeals court.

At this point I do not really know much the stuff that had taken place in the beginning of this year. But it sure did look self serving from the offset by not having much input but by a select group of people.
In my heart I feel they were trying to do something good and meaningful.
But I do not believe it was done in the proper way.
I suppose either through not knowing better or through dispiration, this all came about.

In USA, if any transfers of SME organization has been made or is trying to be made to liquidate or trade assets to another non profit.
From the knowledge that I have now.
I doubt it was legal to do so.

I also doubt if any organization has the right to receive any  monies that it collected from donors or matter of fact any and all assets including money of any kind that belonged to SME.

My intentions of these words are to warn of possible issues that I feel likely exist but may not.

[purvis]

To put these words simply.
If Koozali is not the same organization of contribs.org or whatever the organization name of the SME organization. Then it has no rights of any here or to any assets tangible or not. And has no rights to conduct its business here.

If in some way Koozali is an organization such as a DBA of SME. That would be another story.

[newburns]

Is this true? SME is privatized now?

[Stefano]

NO

[janet]

purvis

I think you should stop talking nonsense about something you admit you know nothing about !

Get your facts straight & at least show you investigated the topic & have adequate knowledge of it BEFORE you start making nonsensical claims.

Your very wrong, inappropriate & inapplicable statements only inflame gullible people like newburns.

What you are saying is like claiming the President of USA is a Russian spy, terrible if he was, but we all know he is not, so why even propose it ???!!!

[newburns]

Gullible?!?

Snap on Purvis, not me. No need to call names here.

[purvis]

I am really tired of Janet's name calling or is it Mary.
And it is actually more than her name calling.
If she does not like what somebody thinks or writes.
She goes on a wild tangent.

I really want to give her a piece of my mind.

I have made a decision already before to just neglect her posting.
She must also think she is an psychologist because she demonstrates she that on post toward people telling them what kind of people they are.

Here in Louisiana we have names for people who demonstrate such behavior like she is doing.

Sorry fellas, I not taking her crap. She is out the box and thinks she can write her mind.
I have been subject to her bad conduct before and I see she has done the same to others even worst.,  and I did not say anything. But I am now. Thiis is the second or third time she has attacked me and it is not right.

[newburns]

Janet is Mary??!!
Well I have to jump off this boat. Mary and I have a relationship that is understood. Although some may see it as harsh, Mary and I actually have some good times together.
I am no longer offended if this is Mary.

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,48635.msg241758.html#msg241758

[purvis]

Most of you likely understand the point I wrote about.
Assets also mean data.
The question remains on the tab about organization ownership.
If improper ownership of assets where made. This can have big implications in the future if not already.

I do understand the operating in a financial crisis mades one sort of try to cut the edges.
But things are what they are and laws of organization are what they are.

I have been busy and did not realize what might have happened in the beginning of what was under development when this Koolali came to be.
Seems I did not login for a few months and found a lot of things had happened to the organization.
Or I would of said these things much earlier.

This thread is not about Shad at all. Matter of fact I want to thank him personally for his unselfish and financial support

[Stefano]

purvis,  what about starting with a big donation?

I see many people here barking but no one has voted or made a donation

Let's  see the money..

[johnp]

I am down with anyone who volunteers to help this community move forward. The only assests I see are the people who help support. My background is from the Mitel side, I knew about e-smith before their purchase, but joined this community after Mitel basically discontinued the all in one webserver to utilize it's strenghts for their own apllications.

I came here to increase my understanding of the interworkings of something I would be making my living on. If it wasn't for the people here, I would have to had spents numerous hours with tech support.

It has been my experience from day one, that their hasn't been any or much of any true leadership, and to question those that will volunteer to provide it has me wondering WTF. If it wasn't for people like Shad, Charlie, Mary(Janet), Stefano....etal, there would be no community and this distro would have gone by the wayside.

FWIW, I voted to support the current volunteers without any regrets.

[purvis]

Stefano, you made same inappropriate statements in this year to the same effect just more child like in the previous statements.
I have donated in the past, but that is none of your business is it.
I chose not to correct you then when you put a similar but more rudely post up.

I also do not appreciate the fact that you and Janet wish to misdirect attention from my original post, which is what I feel you both are doing.

 

[johnp]

You should list the tangible and intangible assests, as you see them. Then we may be able to debate the issue IMHO.

[johnp]

Like I always say, The Who may have been born with a plastic spoon, but I was born with a shoehorn in my mouth. 

[purvis]

Support is not what i am referring to in my original post.
I am not even sure who actual knows who are members of this organization and who are not. That can be an issue when it comes to voting as to who has a right to vote and who does not.
If I am not a member that has voting rights, that does not bother me.
What does bother me, or deserves the question of ownership of certain rights.
If these rights are vague and possibly not legal, then there should be concern by all.
I am not saying here that the sky is falling.
I am disclosing what might be a problem.
This had crossed my mind when the location of the data of this community had changed and there was apparent concerns by the Koozali directors of who sad they owned the data and where it was located and other sorts of possible director's questions to managing the data.
Koozali Foundation may not even own the data or other assets what belonged to the contribs.org or whatever the organization name is called.

This is not a fun topic for me to write about. But I have seen large legal issues of who has control, ownership, etc and who has the right to make legal decisions concerning assets of various types.
I feel there had to be discussion of this sort by certain key members and who ever the directors might have been.
But there is a chance the discussion of this sort never was covered by those individuals and/or no actions taken concerning assets and their proper handling in a legal way.
I am like most of you who would prefer that legal matters would not exist.
But if there did not exist of a clear legal method to transfer or control assets, it would seem to me Koozali Foundation may have problems with right of ownership already that they are not aware of.

With hind sight, and not knowing the full details of whatever the Koozali Foundation actual is, I think it was not the best judgement to try to start another organization if that is what happened. Instead the current organization at the time could of branded the software Koozali without the creation of a new organization if that is what took place.
Like i said, that is all hind sight, but still yet, if things are not done in a proper way. Issues will come from this in the future if not already.

[johnp]

purvis,

I can relate to your concerns, you would be one I consider as an asset to the community. I don't know if you were around for the last time elections were posted or not, but that really IMHO didn't provide any leadership or the push to move forward.

From what I've gathered through the years, is that Shad has provided resources to keep this community going, and without his effort, my response wouldn't be possible.

You may have valid concerns, but looking a gift horse in the mouth, as it seems to me that you are doing with the new leadership volunteers, has me puzzled. JMHO

[purvis]

I do know that being a director or having a title in any organization comes with duties.
Because this organization(contribs.org) has a legal entity, there will always be responsibilities of those who hold office in the organization.
And like all responsibilities, there are those that we do not wish have or exist.
But it comes with having rights to those positions.

Because I have never seen what I would call a proper voting, if one was needed.
I question, not dispute, who (organization likely) owns what assets and was any transfer made and was it legal to make transfer of assets.
If this question cannot be clearly answered and its legality cannot  clearly be undisputed, there is are issues, no matter the best intentions of a person or persons.

I am not saying that any wrong doings have actually take place. I am disclosing what might be an issue. I do not know that it is an issue or not.

Is there a clear detail in writing of what took place organization wise. If not maybe now is the time.
Who would write on this. I would think it should come directly from the board of directors of contribs.org what actually took place.
Like i said, it might be entirely possible that Koozali Foundation has no right on this forum to conduct any business, access, or control over contribs.org assets.
If Koozali Foundation does not have these legal rights, this all needs to be looked into.
If there are issues that need to be addressed, which with my view today, there seems likely. There could be a discussion in a single thread to address particular issues of ownership by the members(whoever they actually are)  of both Koozali Foundation and contribs.org organization if the two are separate organizations.

[johnp]

I don't disagree with you logic. I tend to disagree that contribs ever had any assests, other than the members of the community. Please enumerate what you believe they are or were.

[purvis]

Johnp,

I agree with you up the point of a gift horse, but even I understand your words on that.
I have no problem even in turning the whole organization over to him, but I would think even he, Shad, would might think that would not be a gift but a liability.

It is nice to have the monkey on somebody else's back or at least not to carry the burden by oneself.

I not pointing my fingers as many would probably think.
I am trying to layout a huge possible issue that nobody, including me, wants to write about or think about.
But I have seen something of this sort go bad else happen, but the interested parties are quite different.
I believe it is the distasteful part in the duties of a non profit organization.

An organization cannot just take over another organization by its own means, and that may have happened here.
If that is what has happened, there is probably some back tracking  both organizations should make.

I still do not know why Koozali Foundation had to be organized if there was an organization already in place even if major changes needed to take place in the organization.
If contribs.org members want to sell off contribs.org assets and be no more, they can for a penny if they chose by it's members if the federal law concerning non profit organizations allows it.  Yep there are laws on what a non profit organization can do and cannot do, depending on the federal status of the non profit organization.
Even the transfer from Mitel might have had its own stipulations of ownership rights that could or could not be transferred.
Whatever the members of contribs.org wants is up to the membership. But Koozali Foundation if a legal separate organization has their own separate membership.

As far as Shad goes, if he wants and if there can be given a life time membership to the board of directors of contribs.org and/or an top officer of organization owning the data, then that should be allowed.
 

[johnp]

I don't think anyone dissuades your passion for this community. That is beyound my intent for sure. For along time the community has been under Shad's stewardship, like it or not. The new  Koozali Foundation org has me excited like no time before. Yes there may be some bridges to cross, but I'm happy they are building them.

I see it as an effort to move forward.

[purvis]

Assets can be many things. Cash, bank accounts, monies receivable(money owed to the organization), contracts with other companies,equipment, certain rights, brand names, even goodwill.
Liabilities can be any monies promised to another entity, short term debt, long term debt, contracts to other companies for goods and services.
Ownership can be made from almost entity. People or an organization.

I am not sure whether ownership of non profit organization that has a federal status can be traded. There are law concerning the different kinds of non profit organization and how they must be dissolved and depending on the by laws of the organization by which it was created, voting rights or i should just say all rights are usually disclosed in the by laws of the organization.

What sort of concerns me the most, is the fact that if Koozali Foundation is a separate entity organization. Then it must be treated as such. That goes for its assets, liabilities, and ownership  as well, no matter whether how we want to treat it in our own minds.

Also if Koozali is a separate organization and if contribs.org did not transfer ownership of the assets correctly, then Koozali has no right to even tell Shad what to do or act as a representative for contribs.org organization concerning the issue of who, what, where any data belonging to contribs.org.

I would even think if Koozali Foundation is receiving any pledges to contribs.org, that might not be legal as well to be transferred without proper consent of the pledgers.
These are issues that come from having a separate new organization if that is what has taken place.
Koozali Foundation may also not have any right to performing its business on another entities(contibs.org) properties, including asking and/or receiving donations.

The desire to go forward too fast may put one over a clift or sink a ship.
If what I have written about actually happened. Then it could possibly be fixed. How much time that would take, I do not know.
Who the members are is a big question is solving problems relating to non profit organizations.
Or I should say, who has legal voting rights to make big decisions. Many of those answers can likely be found from the original founders to contribs.org and what was laid out in the bylaws of the organization and if the bylaws of the organization where in fact legal to begin with.

[johnp]

I think anybody on the Koozali Foundation board has been forthright and approachable. YMMV

[purvis]

Whoever the directors are with contribs.org MIGHT have some unfinished duties to take care of.
That is for them to decide.
 
If I were a Koozali Foundation director and I saw this an issue, I would push for a resolution from the contribs.org organization on these various issues if they exist.

If I were a contribs.org director, I would make sure contribs.org did not have any liabilities coming from the direction of Koozali Foundation. Sadly, I would dissolve the website contribs.org and have Koozali Foundation operate their own web site.
These are the points one forgets or are unknown factors when one decides to create a new organization.
If Koozali Foundation cannot afford to do that, it is not contribs.org organization responsibility to provide it.

[johnp]

Fair enough, but I don't think there is a contribs.org director. Why your argument fails IMHO

[purvis]

There is some responsible person, the money from donors can be traced.
If new directors where not elected, that should make the old ones still active, unless they resigned.
In that case, just about any attorney would be glad to pick up the duties.
Was there an attorney on the board or one that serviced contribs.org They may be able to act as one.
But I really do not trust attorneys always to do the right thing.

I would think if there where no board members and no officers. Then Shad should be able to make decisions for contribs.org if he was the only custodian.
Shad might have been both a director and an officer, I would not be surprised if so and I do not know.

But i can almost assume this. If contribs.org did not have a director. How could Koozali Foundation accept ownership of any assets from contribs.org.

[purvis]

If there needs to be directors to make actions to resolve these kinds of issues.
I have seen elsewhere there might be something like this.
To make up a voting membership.
The membership of the organization would be made up of those that made a financial contribution to the organization from the last two or three years, two years being a minimum.
Any amount accepted by the organization is to be a member and each one of those members get a single vote.
Nominations are mailed in and disclosed and votes are mailed out to the members with a date of the election to be set.
I would let an attorney do the physical mailing and receiving of the mail.
I would also have the directors send out a ballot to vote on approval of transfer of assets to a certain company.
I would not do any proxy voting.
Every member gets one vote.
I would also make the voting membership list available by name only to be viewed.

[janet]

purvis et al

As I understand this e-smith to sme server community scenario, Mitel handed stewardship of the forum posts & some other data to contribs.org, which was created privately by one man (forget his name just now).
There was some difference of opinions & that man handed contribs.org onto others, so we had iteration number 2 of contribs.org.

Around the time of sme 7 development, the SME server name (business entity & domain name) came into existence, moreso as a vehicle for commercial development, usage & promotion of "the GPL thing called SME server". When SME 7 was released the Leadership of the volunteer team resigned (having done their job for a few years) & new leaders were called for by way of elections & with a constitution. Those elections never really resulted in any substantive outcome as only a minimal few people volunteered for jobs & some positions were never filled.

Shad has been involved probably since the early days of the community stewardship (I'm not sure exactly when). In essence though he was the unofficial technical steward of all the "data" & no-one else volunteered to the level of comittment that he did.

So the contribs.org & SME server are really different entities (in a practical sense & I think a legal sense too).

Contribs.org has continued on for many years without any elected leaders, everyone has did what they did as volunteers, & nobody stopped them. You or anyone else could get in & do what they wanted, as long as those who had physical control of the site & wiki & forums etc allowed them. The rules were simply what was considered decent & fair, although I believe the constitution did mention a few things. The SME server name was adopted by popular consent & usage, was it as early as the v6 community release after Mitels handover.

So nothing really happened with SME server Inc (I think it was called), ie the entity setup to promote the business/financial/promotional side of SME server. It was simply a case of no-one volunteering their time for this. Developers were happy to keep coding, Shad was happy to code & maintain the backend etc, & here we are today. In the meantime variants of smeserver domain names & URLs were poached by those hoping to make a quick buck in the future as no-one had done anything to secure those.

If you read the posts & maillists from early January 2013 onwards about this, & under a background of comments from Charlie & others to just get in there & "do it" rather than creating lots of hot air talking about it, a new leadership team (of volunteers) was created. They did ask for more people to volunteer so a full complement of positions could be filled.

For various reasons eg website poaching & legal considerations etc, they felt/decided a new name & legal entity (Koozali Foundation) was the appropriate vehicle to use.

As I understand it now, the stewardship of the GPL data will now be handed to Koozali, just as happened from Mitel to contribs.org. Mitel decided upon a responsible party to be the steward, & so now contribs.org (or moreso Shad as he physically controls access) is also deciding if Koozali is a suitable responsible party. It seems Shad was cautious & wanted to hear from the community members by way of vote, that they morally agreed with his decision. Anyone who visits this website is considered a community member & could vote.

It was pointed out recently that we are talking about GPL data which by definition is publicly owned by the open source community. The entities, legal structures, associations etc that we set up, are just the physical side of the stewardship.

As I see it, ownership does not really apply here & never has, the community freely gives & the community freely maintains (free meaning of their own free will, rather than free of monetary cost), and the community freely donates money to support the infrastructure etc. The issue is stewardship, & this seems to come down to personal effort & personal decision that cannot be governed by anybody or any rules. There may be an onus of expectation upon individual stewards to "do the right thing", but I doubt that Shad could be forced by any law to give us the password to "his" servers.

That I believe is where Koozali Foundation comes in, to be a joint steward with more than one person having access, thus ensuring the continuity of the community GPL data if any other people with access or Shad, should one day get run over by a bus. The stewardship can continue to be handed on as the morals of the leaders dictate, those morals being governed or moderated by the rules of the Foundation. That of course is not the only task or responsibility of the Foundation.

This community has never really had that before, to this degree of surety, so I, & I'm sure many others, feel this is a good thing & a positive step forward.

Apologies for leaving some parts of the story & names out, eg Gordon Rowell, Ruffdogs, & the original founder of contrib.org (for he & they really created the start of what we are today). If there are any inaccuracies that are of significance, please correct what I have said, but please lets not get into a useless discussion of semantics or accusations or so called name calling verbiage etc. Thanks.

[purvis]

Johnp

I have no argument.
If I do have an argument, it is only of issue that might exist and needs to be corrected now rather trying to fix something in the far future.
It is kind of like making sure the title is clear on a piece of land you are buying.
If you purchase property that is not owned by the seller, basically you lost your money and what you thought was your purchased property.
There are properties that do not get sold because the owner is not identified properly.
In that case, most time it will eventually get in the hands of the government through a sheriffs sale from non payment of taxes.

There are plenty of intellectual laws in the state of Louisiana, if the data is in Utah, I am sure Utah has intellectual laws too.
If Shad has a contract with contribs.org and contribs.org has not be paying him. Then Shad will would likely own all the data property.
And if that where so. Shad holds the control over the data to do as he wishes with it. He can sell it, rent it, destroy it.

From the looks of things, I believe at this point, ClearCenter or  ClearOS has an interest to see the SME project go forward and exist.
So I really believe that Shad having a relationship with the owner of ClearCenter is positive to have.

But like i have said, i do not think Koozali Foundation has rights to the data from what i have knowledge to.

[purvis]

Janet with that said and to be true.
I think Shad should be made executor of the GPL data and if has been decided clearly by a majority of the members.
I think it would be wise for the transfer to be made formal in writing.
And I think Shad should be sent physical letters of approval with xx number of letters with signatures and phone numbers through registerd mail.

That should clear things up.
The letter should also say something to the effect of why this is being done similar to Janet's above posting of the history of the organization.
That should be enough documentation for Koozali Foundation to have in writing and enough to comfort Shad as being an executor of contribs.org data.

Any letter should be specific with intentions so that the signed letter would have value.

[purvis]

I had an aunt die many years ago.
She had been sick for many years and recessed back to life a few times.
Here wishes where not to be recessed back to life any more.

There came that awful day when she was put on an ventilation machine after being transferred from her house with another emergency.
My uncle waited till all family members where there, at the hospital, that could be there, including her mother, my grand mother.
With everybody packed into this larger emergency room that was closed off by door to the rest of the rooms.
Then there was a time to order the removal of the respiration system keeping her alive.
My father, that was his sister,  asked that all the her brothers and sisters and their wives or husbands sign their name under my uncles signature of consent to remove the respirator.
That is a sign of support that cannot be changed and a sign of emotional support too.

Shad has apparently given a lot. This is his baby, even if an abandoned baby and this is easy for us to see.
He has protected the baby like all babies need protecting.

If this is Shad wishes to grant rights to others, or give them all rights.
Then a sign off on that in writing in significant numbers to support that decision would be a good thing to do.
It would be best if two identical papers where signed. One for Shad to keep and another for Koozali Foundation to keep.
This will help keep actions by Shad safe.

Any other assets of question might be handled in similar manner.
I would suppose the contribs.org would be closed by some legal manner.
The tax reports have to be filled don't they?

[janet]

purvis

No-one really owns the data/intellectual property, so how can anyone appoint Shad as a executor of the data, & who has any rights to appoint an executor.
To me it's as simple as saying Shad has control now & if Shad wants to, then he will pass control to someone else, no letters or no appointment from any authority needed.
Koozali Foundation is the entity he is looking at passing control to, discussions re Koozali legality etc are really another issue, but I see nothing wrong with any group of like minded individuals from this community getting together to legally create a "vehicle" to support their common interest (ie SME server or shall we now call it Koozali SME server).

Having said that, I do not know what procedure the Koozali board have in mind for a handover. They can create as many letters or handover documents as they feel necessary. & it is really their decision.

If you feel you have valuable & vital input to make, then get your facts right, do the research, read the constitution of both contribs.org/SME server & Koozali Foundation etc & work it all out based on facts rather than guesstimation & supposition.
There is little point making unbased claims or suggestions (as these only alarm people who believe what they read), most of which in this thread have had no merit & are are non existent. As was said, your whole scenario is flawed as your first "argument" was invalid.

PS Just saw your latest post. I thought I read that contribs.org would continue "as is" for the time being (and really it is just a name AFAIK).
Koozali Foundation is just a clean unencumbered legal entity, that path probably being chosen to dispense with some of the concerns you elude to.

[purvis]

Janet,
I don't believe in half your words you posted as usual.
Because you have issues with my words, your back to name calling or just a play upon words to discredit.  Does it ever quit?
It is apparent to me that you have little legal knowledge and that is ok, we all have different backgrounds.
Wishing for a land of Oz is ok, but it does not exist in USA at the moment.

I have outlined some things that should stand in court if ever questioned.
Courts and laws do not believe in the good ole hand shake these days, or words to convey an agreement, plus they are not honored.

Facts, facts?
Apparently I was right about what I was writing about all along from your own words, if they are correct. About Koozali Foundation possibly not having any right to the assets from contibs.org thru self procurement of their own along with other issues that may be more serious when it comes to receiving monies from contribs.org donations.

These are serious concerns whether you acknowledge them or not for both organizations and people who have been given custody of said assets. Be it a cash, fixed or intangible asset.

In the case those did not know. A non profit organization is organization that operates under a certain federal tax law. There are many different types of non profit organizations allowed by the US federal government and they are not all treated the same by federal law. That is pretty much the only difference between them and other organizations.
And for those that also do not know, there is more abuse in non profit organizations than you shake a stick at. I dont think contribs.org is one of them, but who knows what is down the road.

Well I am not going to lose sleep of what good warnings and suggestions I have issued.

[janet]

purvis

I see no reference by myself to name calling against you anywhere in this thread & I would request you withdraw that accusation.
It seems you quote that whenever someone says something you disagree with or is in opposition to your stated words.
I can ask also, will you ever stop that behaviour, it is quite unnecessary.

FYI I have had extensive experience with Non Profit organisations for over 30 years.
FYI re earlier comments, I have also had extensive training & many years of practical experience in counselling & treatment of emotional & attitudinal problems, which is quite common in seemingly normal people, who for example go overboard on their pet topics etc without being factual etc.

Please quote where in the rules of contribs.org, SME server & Koozali Foundation, that you think someone is doing something wrong here.
It's all great to be theoretical & quote other cases & situations, but I'm sure you know, the judge is only interested in the matter before him.
By the way, whoever is going to take Koozali or Shad or contribs.org to court ?
Come on, get real !

Your concerns are noted, but show us where it applies, drop the hypotheticals please.

You can carry on here as long as you want, but I see no reason to add more to your rambles, I have said my piece & I believe I have been reasonably polite about it.

I have confidence in Koozali Foundation & the members of the board, I read all I can about them, & I'm sure they have adequately addressed legal issues etc.

[purvis]

from Janet from here recent post

If you feel you have valuable & vital input to make, then get your facts right, do the research, read the constitution of both contribs.org/SME server & Koozali Foundation etc & work it all out based on facts rather than guesstimation & supposition.

I had asked or inquired to what had happened and if a situation existed.
You say otherwise of me!

from Janet from her recent post

There is little point making unbased claims or suggestions (as these only alarm people who believe what they read), most of which in this thread have had no merit & are are non existent. As was said, your whole scenario is flawed as your first "argument" was invalid.

Unbased claims or suggestions?  The way you wrote it, this calls me a liar.
No merit?  Who says? You the queen?
Argument. You are the only one arguing here. I made some suggestions based on actual past experience concerning non profit organizations.


And Janet,  Your observations of human behavior are lacking. Maybe it is good enough for a self proclaimed physiologist in non profit institutions  So you should leave that some where else. It is very distasteful here.

How does it feel now to be personal and  being you are on the receiving end.
It did not think it felt too nice did it.
Don't start something unless you are willing to go the mile.
I can also go back to words you addressed me with in the past along with others just days ago.
Your behavior should stop. I do not like being addressed in an offensive personal manner as you are doing.
I resent it and i will not put up with it.

[purvis]

Janet,
Congratulations on another temple to try to divert the issues I had brought up.
Good try.
But I am not distracted from my initial post.
My thoughts stand.


 

[janet]

Stefano etc

Would a moderator please close this thread, it has gotten out of hand.

[purvis]

Why should this be closed.
I posted a topic and Janet comes in with rudeness to me beyond what should be tolerated by an individual.
Then she ask that this thread be closed.
Another act of rudeness on her part I feel.

I don't she understands I don't appreciate her post that choose to be little me or others in other threads.
I have good phycology skills too.
But I don't go around demeaning people with my thoughts.
I made a mistake once and misunderstood Charlie's intention of his words in another thread and spoke very bad to him. Which I was very wrong in I believe I apologized to him.
So I have been guilty of too of not being so kind before.
I turned that leaf and also it appears others turned that leaf as well.
But it is not right what Janet does with personal attacks and how she chooses to word those harsh sentences.

Also don't close this post so that she has an opportunity to apologize.
I am not hiding my breathe on that.
I think anybody who attacks somebody out of no reason on numerous incidents should also be muzzled from making personal attacks.

I feel I have the right to defend my honor from attacks from anybody.
And I also feel these words should be left for all to see.

[idp_qbn]

Oh purvis, do shut up!

No one has called you names> Your concerns have been noted (several times).  Get a good night's sleep.

Ian

[chris burnat]

Good people (and Purvis in particular) , we are a distinguished community and the first rule of any community is for its members  to control their  tempers and be respectful to one another.  This thread is getting out of hand, and whilst it is not my intention to take sides or even voice an opinion, as a moderator, I have no options but to close it.
With regrets.
chris

[gzartman]

To put these words simply.
If Koozali is not the same organization of contribs.org or whatever the organization name of the SME organization. Then it has no rights of any here or to any assets tangible or not. And has no rights to conduct its business here.

If in some way Koozali is an organization such as a DBA of SME. That would be another story.

The previous entity associated with contribs.org, SME Server Inc, was administratively dissolved by the state it was registered in, so it is out of the picture from a legal standpoint.  Quite simply, it doesn't exist anymore.  All of the SME Server content is GPL licensed, so it is really owned by everyone.  The delivery system (the data/web servers) is proprietary -- Shad owns them.

Koozali Foundation, Inc was formed by a group of community volunteers under the direction of a attorney who specializes in the formation of non-profit organizations.  The entity was legally registered in the State of Oregon and then ratified by the community just this month in a open vote on the mailing lists and forums.  Koozali Foundation, Inc is now the legitimate, and legal, entity to represent the community and perform as the steward of SME Server content.  If anyone else wants to create a new community and distribution, he or she is well within his/her rights to do so under the terms of the GPL.

Moreover, there are no assets to transfer.  SME Server as a project was flat broke when Koozali was formed.  The content is freely available under the terms of the GPL.  All of the code can be downloaded from SourceForge, for example.   The wiki/docs are all freely available online and can be copied if someone had the desire.  Things like the buildsys Shad engineered are proprietary.   Other things like forum user accounts are not GPL, so they can't be transferred. 

[gzartman]

Is this true? SME is privatized now?

No, SME is not privatized. 

A new non-profit foundation was formed to for project stewardship:  Koozali Foundation, Inc. 

That's it.

[gzartman]

Koozali Foundation may not even own the data or other assets what belonged to the contribs.org or whatever the organization name is called.
.

As a point of clarity, the content and code (community assets) are all GPL.  They are owned by everyone.  The web/data server that contribs.org is running on is owned by Shad.  Shad was running contribs.org out of generosity, as a one-man band.  There wasn't any entity in place to guide nor assist him.  The entire community owes Shad as VERY BIG thank you for his tireless and thankless efforts.  Without his efforts, this community would likely have died long ago.

Koozali is a new beginning for this community.  The name comes from re-birth.   There is no transfer nor take over.  This organization was formed by us, the SME community.  Myself and everyone on the Koozali board of directors are just like all of you.  We are users and we love the distribution.  We just decided to step up and do something to help keep it alive and advance it.  We organized ourselves and you all voted this month to ratify us to represent the project. 

This really is an amazing and exciting time.  We are taking ahold of our distribution and working to give it a bright future instead of letting it slowly fade away!