Topic: can't find SME from LAN (network neighbourhood)

[Lindsay]

G'day all,
I can't access the SMEserver files from the LAN, it won't show up in Network Neighbouhood and a search for computers returns no result. I CAN access the server-manager using a browser & I can ping the SMEserver OK.
My Setup: I have an IPCop firewall with SME on the Orange DMZ and a network on the Green.
I have added the network to "Local networks" in the server-manager.
I am logged in to the 98 or ME box as "admin" and the password is the same as the SMEserver.
Any help GREATLY appreciated.
thanks in anticipation,
Lindsay

[chris meredith]

Try to access the server directly without trying to browse to it.  Go to "Start", "Run" and try

\sme_machine_name
or
\sme_ip_address

If you have a lot of Win9X boxes you may want to configure the server as a WINS server.

[Lindsay]

G'day Chris,
Thx 4 reply.
I tried that, get the "can't find, check spelling etc" dialog.
We only have 7 clients using static IP's. Why would we need WINS?, I thought DNS was the way to go? If I shouldn't use static IP's or DNS. How do I configure WINS on the server (doco refs pls)???
tia
Lindsay

[ralph]

Hi Lindsay,

the TCP/IP implementation on the complete Win9x ( up to ME ) line is kind a - well not too well done.

Therefore your clients will need some kind of NetBios ( over IP ) nameresolution.

solution nr. 1 : turn your sme-box into a WINS Server ( server-manager ) and tell your clients to use it ( IP props ).

solution nr. 2 : as we are talking about 7 clients, you can tell them where to find the sme manually by doing the following :

on the clients open a command prompt ( DOS ), change to \windows dir and type in
edit lmhosts ( if it does not exist, it will be createt ); within the file enter the line :
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx ( ip of your sme ) followed ty tab or at least one blank then name-of-sme-box tab/blank plus #pre plus return
safe it and reboot your computer(s).

then you should be able to reach your sme ( if samba is turned on ).

hope that helps, cheerio,

Ralph

[Lindsay]

Thanks Ralph,
But
1). If Windows can't find \xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (sme ip address) then how would that help?
2). Wouldn't the DNS proxy server on the IPCop box resolve those names to IP's?
tia
Lindsay

[Schotty]

The Problem is with the Subnetting.

You have following setup...

Red = Internet
Green = Lan
Orange = Server (SME)


Green can connect with orange (through the firewall)
Orange is not allowed to contact green without green first starting the contact.

That means that only the IP-COP knows that SME is there....

If you made the SME Server to Wins and told the clinst that they should use the SME Server as Wins then i am sure ur problems are solved.......


thx for reading my part of the answer what hopefully results in u being happy.....

cheers

[Lindsay]

G'day Schotty,
Thanks mate, but where do I start looking for the WINS server in SME?
And, any other bits a newbie wouldn't think of  ?????????
tia
Lindsay

[Charlie Brady]

Lindsay wrote:

> We only have 7 clients using static IP's. Why would we need
> WINS?

Because you have broadcast isolated your server from the clients.

>, I thought DNS was the way to go?

Windows doesn't use DNS for "browsing". It uses WINS, if configured, and broadcasting otherwise.

> How do I configure WINS on the server (doco refs pls)???

Start by reading the manual.

Charlie

[Lindsay]

G'day Charlie,
At least one of us has read and it's NOT! you.
WINS is not mentioned in the manual I have "SME Server V5 with ServiceLink
User Guide - 5.5". I searched the entire document for "WINS", nothing!
How about you try to be helpful rather than trying to be a smart****?
If it is there, I withdraw and grovel at your feet.

OK, where is it, Section number?

regards,
Lindsay

[Ed Form]

Charlie Brady wrote:
>
> Lindsay wrote:
>
> > How do I configure WINS on the server (doco refs pls)???
>
> Start by reading the manual.

Since the word WINS does not occur at all in the manual, what good would that do him?

Why didn't you just tell him that WINS is enabled as standard, and advise him on what to actually do?

Oh! I know! It's because he hasn't paid, and it isn't your job to help those who don't pay. Why do you bother coming here at all? Your attitude and the tone of your contributions here are the reason why I cannot advise my clients to use your product. My experience of paid support in computer companies is that the same attitudes prevail inside the fence as are visible through it.

For Lindsay...

The simplest answer to your problem is to change all your Windows machines to use DHCP to get their IP addresses and make sure they are all members of the same workgroup you named during the e-smith setup. You can run back through the e-smith server post-install setup in order to correct any wrong assumptions you made first time around. If you do this the problems will go away. Don't make any special settings in the e-smith or Windows configurations, just accept all of the defaults. Forget about DNS - remove all references to DNS settings in the Windows network setups - and don't use domain networking, it's a complete waste of time with 7 users.

If you have two network cards in the server, particularly if they are identical, there is a strong possibility that your setup has them reversed. So try swapping the cables over.

f you need any more help email me.

Ed Form

[Rich Lafferty]

Ed Form wrote:
>
> Oh! I know! It's because he hasn't paid, and it isn't your
> job to help those who don't pay. Why do you bother coming
> here at all?

Well, it's not Charlie's job to help anyone; he answers questions here on his
own time.

(It *is* Charlie's job to develop the software that we sell and give away,
and that you're presumably using.)

Cheers,

--Rich

[Ed Form]

In article <44a58d9b362b8771a5e70e72d8ca9d34.phorum-owner@e-smith.net>, richl-forums@e-smith.com (Rich Lafferty) wrote:

> This message was sent from: General discussion.
> http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=5029.msg17646#msg17646
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ed Form wrote:
>
> > Oh! I know! It's because he hasn't paid, and it isn't your
>
> > job to help those who don't pay. Why do you bother coming
>
> > here at all?
>
> Well, it's not Charlie's job to help anyone; he answers questions here
> on his own time.
>
> (It *is* Charlie's job to develop the software that we sell and give
> away,
>
> and that you're presumably using.)

Nope! I keep a watching brief on it because it is near to what I need and I hope it will be sorted out sometime. I dropped my intention to use it commercially after the dial-up debacle that cost me so much money and which, contrary to Mr Brady's supercilious claims here to someone else suffering with the same problems, *was* the fault of your bad design assumptions. So if he's the developer, and his apparent contempt for non-paying users is carried over into his general attitude - a near certainty - it would appear that a properly thought out version of the software isn't due any time soon.

Ed Form

[Charlie Brady]

Lindsay wrote:

> At least one of us has read and it's NOT! you.
> WINS is not mentioned in the manual I have "SME Server V5
> with ServiceLink

I said *start* by reading the manual. I'm sorry if this mislead.

You can read more about samba and WINS here:

 http://www.csm.ro/samba/smb_se-5.html

Charlie

[Charlie Brady]

Lindsay wrote:

> My Setup: I have an IPCop firewall with SME on the Orange DMZ
> and a network on the Green.

It's worth noting that the product and its documentation is not designed to be deployed in this configuration. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this configuration, but it does imply customisation on your part.

Charlie

[Lindsay]

Thanks Guys,
I'll try that.
Charlie, all the installs I've heard about since I first looked at SMEserver are behind a firewall and most of those are behind IPCop. So maybe? it would be worth covering this in the doco's? It seems those who don't use a firewall go for ClarkConnect.
I didn't realise you were from e-smith till Ed pointed it out. While I'll probably stick with e-smith I'll certainly consider the tone of your & Rich's response before I decide weather to go this route. I've found with software that support is *everything*.
Some unsolicited advice from an old bugga, your 2nd response was something of an excuse, I try to avoid that. As Ed pointed out, I asked for a "ref to the doco's" and you say "Read the doco's", lol, you didn't look properly did you . tsk, tsk. I would have immediately said what I would have wanted not too. Enough ramble, have a good day and once again thanks for your reply.
cheers
Lindsay

[Charlie Brady]

Lindsay wrote:

> Charlie, all the installs I've heard about since I first
> looked at SMEserver are behind a firewall and most of those
> are behind IPCop.

Quite unusual in my experience.

> I've found with software that support is *everything*.

I don't provide support, and moreover Mitel doesn't support its customers via this board. Anything anyone posts here is a voluntary and personal (as opposed to corporate) contribution.

Regards

Charlie

[Prabhjot Gill]

I experienced similar problem when my Windows 98 & Windows XP machines could not find SME server. When I changed their WORKGROUP to the same as SME, the problem was resolved.

SME & other workstations shoudl be in the same workgroup.


Thanks.

[Schotty]

This is not correct. SME (or any other server) does not have to be in the same domain as the clients.
With a little understanding of the TCP/IP Protocoll and domain working then this would be obvious.

With Lindsays case it is a matter of routing broadcasts. The SME sends a broadcast to the master browser (in this case the sme server -if its on his own in the orange segment), and the clients dont get his browser list.

If you switch on clients and the sme server and they arnt in the same domain then before the browser list fron sme gets to the clients can take some time....
To reduce this time you have to set up neworking properly - at least one domain will have to have a wins server and ALL computers in both domains have to use the wins server -or 2 wins server and these wins server have to "swap" info....

I dont really like the way this discussion has ended.
Before i moan i would like to point out that i dont have a connection with e-smith other than being a keen user of it.
Instead of concentrating on your problem u (lindsay) raised a mean tone in a couple of messages what u posted....

this is quite a common "newbie effect" .....software is released for nothing and the skys the limit.....they want free support as well.

I might try that oneday.....Ill buy a plane and post somewhere ive got a plane how do i fly it.......


Well ill go now ...hope u manage to solve ur problem......... Im not sure but u could use wins on the ip-cop too.......u have to tell ur clients and sme server to use it though.

even though u have only 7 clients i would use the domain model. R more clienst planned? with the domain modell administration is easier.....
But wait how the hell have u got a domain when u have no server in ur segment??

hmmm

[Ray Mitchell]

Dear all
Can anyone explain this please.
As I understand it sme server is a Firewall and from the documentation published and the efforts of the developers  it seems a pretty good one.

Why does one use, and what are the advantages of, separate Firewall products such as IpCop (or others).
Thanks
Ray Mitchell

[schotty]

Hi!!!

Now i dont want to be flamed from e-smith (i dont work for e-smith) but i do recomend and use there server! Now i use smoothwall because of its easy configuration (install-use-forget). Also i dont quite like the idea of a data server being directly in the internet -I use a dmz for all my servers.

I have not used the firewall function of e-smith so i cannot really say if it is good or bad.


hope to have helped

schotty