Topic: web application outside of the ibays

[Arnaud]

Hello,
I've got 3 general questions related to the web applications and the ibays:

• I wonder that contribs (joomla<3, openupload, ajaxplorer, dokuwiki,    ) exist for web applications that can be simply "put" and installed in ibays.
  
  What are the advantages of these contribs vs the classical version of the application? Parameters pre-set for a SME? Database already set? Authentication (in spite lot of applications can run natively, of with plugins, over LDAP)? More simple to install for lazy admins who are satisfied with the default parameters?
  
  A disadvantage is that it is difficult to be up-to-date and that the native update systems of the application can not be run.
  A second one is that the URL to reach the application can not be set (ex: dokuwiki installed by the contrib will be find  into www.domain.org/dokuwiki but can't be (without tricks) in www.domain.org/my-private-documentation as possible with the ibay "my-private-documentation").
  .
• I wonder that these applications installed by a contrib  aren't stored in ibays, but somewhere else (/etc, /opt, /var/lib/ etc...) into the folder tree.
  On SME, Ibays are the place build specially to store datas and to manage the access of them (from extern, from intern etc..), aren't they??
  And ibays are more or less natively taken in consideration by the backup tools. That is good for lazy admins or admin with out brain. When datas are store somewhere else, the admin must think about modifying the backup set-up and...... not forget to do it!
  If the ibays don't manage fine enough the permissions, for example, why can they not get the right parameters like /opt or /var/lib to reach it?
  .
• In the same meaning but with the opposite question: why exist ibays? And specially the folder "/html" of them? When should be data and php-scripts stored inside it? Which data should be stored there?

You see, I slowly discover the world outside of ibays and I don't understand why there is a wold "inside" and "outside".

Please give me some explanations.

Thanks

Arnaud

[Daniel B.]

It's hard to respond to several questions in a single thread. I'll try though

For 1), there are plenty of reasons to use packaged contribs instead of manually install it in an ibay. Here are a few of these reasons

• Simpler to install. Most of the time, it's a matter of yum install followed by a signal-event and you're done
• There can be a much better integration out-of-the-box. Most, if not all of my webapp contribs are carefuly configured to work with SME without any action. By using SME authentication when it's possible (either basic auth, or with LDAP), by making sure the SME admin user is an admin of the app, by pre-configuring emails, links, database
• By providing simple DB props for the most common settings, so you don't have to mess in the app config to set a bigger file upload limit for example, you just set it from the cmd line (it's usually explained in the wiki)
• It can provide automatic integration with other contribs. For example, all of my webapps contribs can be used with LemonLDAP::NG (a WebSSO)
• It can (and usually does) provide a much higher security level. Installing web application shouldn't be limited to extracting it somewhere and hoping for the best. Yes, it'll usually work, but if you want to hardden it, you have to carefully look at the app to see which folders must be writeable by www, and which should not. This is not really possible in ibays. It's possible in Shared Folders, but still painful. There're also some php tuning which might be needed, and some includes folders which should be denied by the webserver. All of this have to be done manually if you install your app manually. With the packaged RPM, it's already done for you
• It's much much much (much much much) easier to maintain when you have several servers to manage. If you just maintain your own server, yes, you can afford to manually check the app you have installed, and update them manually from time to time. If you manage, say 10 servers or more, it's not desirable. Just yum update, and you're done. So, I disagree with you on this point, it's much easier to update when using a packaged contribs
• For the access path, yes, the contrib does choose the default for you. It's a bit less flexible. But you can create a custom template, or ask as an NFR to set the alias in the DB, so it's easy to change. Or you can use http://wiki.contribs.org/Webapps-common and create the sub-domain you want pointing on your app

For 2), yes, you must be careful with backups, as data won't be automatically backed up with the default tools.

For 3) ibays are more for network shares IMHO. They can be used to serve files through HTTP, but are not the best for this. BTW, you should take a look at the Shared Folders contrib, which work a bit like ibays, but are much more powerful (supports finer grain ACL, webdav, etc..)

[stephdl]

• For the access path, yes, the contrib does choose the default for you. It's a bit less flexible. But you can create a custom template, or ask as an NFR to set the alias in the DB, so it's easy to change. Or you can use http://wiki.contribs.org/Webapps-common and create the sub-domain you want pointing on your app

I wonder if instructions for subdomains are well documented in the relevant wiki page you pointed to us, do you have some hint please daniel

[Arnaud]

Many thanks for your explanation Daniel.   
I was not aware about all these details and especially about the interactivity of the different installed contribs.
Bye
Arnaud

[mmccarn]

You can also use ProxyPass to access webapps at the URL of your choosing.

The wiki page talks about forwarding requests to another server, but the 'other' server can easily be another URL on the SME itself.

There is also an implication that the 'other' server needs to be 'internal' (on your LAN) - this is not the case.  You can use proxypass to proxy any server on the planet that your SME can get to.