Topic: Backup to s Desktop stops after 3.99 gb

[Garry]

backup to a desktop stops after 3.99gb
I am using sme server 5.6dev7 with all the patched applied
When i back up using the web interface to a windows desktop (win2k)
The backup gets stuck after 3.99 gb.  Is this a windows limitation or
sme server. I have tried on a win2k machine with ntfs and one with fat partition
Help?

[Darrell May]

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;93496

Unfortunately what is not clearly explained is a standard Win2K/XP install to a blank hard drive always starts with a FAT partition that gets converted to NTFS.  Therefore the original FAT limitation of 4GB remains after conversion to NTFS.

The only way around this is to use a disk utility (HDD manufacturer's Disk Manager or equivalent) to zero the hard drive, install as a second drive in a running Win2K/XP system and using Win2K/XP Disk Manager, create/format a single NTFS partition on the clean disk.  Place the drive back in your original computer, run the Win2K/XP install and it will recognize the NTFS partition exists during install and you should end up with full NTFS file size support.

Darrell

[Kelvin]

Hi Darrell,

I'm afraid I don't agree.

This was the case with Win NT4, but not with W2K/XP. You can specify to install W2K and XP onto a single NTFS partition the size of your hard disk at install time and you get a W2K / XP installation of that size when you finish. You do NOT have a 4GB size limitation after that (or all my video captures must be fakes as they are substantially larger than 4GBs each ! ).

Kelvin

[Bob Todd]

got to agree with Kelvin on this one - and I've only installed Win2k about 300 times or so :p

[Andy Parkinson]

Does this mean that the linux limitation that meant not more than 2 gig could be backed up with previous versions of  SME has now been solved ?

[Ray Mitchell]

Garry

You are referring to sme v5.6 which has the new journaling file system, does this have larger (4Gb ??) file size support also ?

With reference to backups on earlier sme 5.5 versions etc
This thread has a few interesting comments re backup & restore size limits etc.
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=15411.msg59200#msg59200

As I understand it, you can do backups to Win2K/XP but will run into the 4Gb files size limit, which I beleive is still inherent in Win2K/XP OS.

The problem is if you try to restore those files, then you run into a 2Gb size limit at the sme server end, so effectively you are limited to 2Gb files sizes for a backup to desktop & restore operation.

For Kelvin, I do video editing work on my Win2K PC and the software automatically splits my 13Gb of data (for 1 hour of video) into 4Gb chunks, so there is a definite 4Gb limit on Win2K. The software also automatically joins the chunks together, so its as if it is one big 13Gb file.
I cannot copy these 4Gb files to my sme v5.1.2 or 5.5 servers though, as the sme has a 2Gb file size limit.

Can someone confirm that v5.6 has larger file size support, and if so what is the file size limit ?

Regards
Ray Mitchell

[Kelvin]

Hi Ray,

>For Kelvin, I do video editing work on my Win2K PC and the software
>automatically splits my 13Gb of data (for 1 hour of video) into 4Gb chunks, so
>there is a definite 4Gb limit on Win2K. The software also automatically joins the
>chunks together, so its as if it is one big 13Gb file

This is a limitation of your Video Editing Software / Driver, not of W2K.

For example, my original Video capture card uses a Microsoft AVI 1 standard driver. This limits capture files to 2 GB only - does not matter what OS you run it on. You can capture beyond 2GB, but none of the capture files will work.

If your software / driver supports it, you can edit single video files that are multigigabytes in size (I've helped someone who was working on a 11GB segment at one time) using a Pinnacle capture card (I forget which one).

I repeat, you can store files bigger than 4GB in W2K/XP if you set it up right to begin with.

Kelvin

[dave]

I've run into problems backing up to a Win2K server installation also.  I have an Intel NIC in my SME box and approx 150GIG data drive on my Win2K Server box.  I can backup my workstations running Win2K Workstation, WinXP, Win98-SE and WinME to the server with no problem but the SME box has yet to fully complete a backup.  When it fails the backup, the SME box has become unreachable from the internal network, a reboot fixes access but I still don't have a good backup of my SME box.

BTW:  all of my workstations backup to the server and create backup files in excess of 4 GIG, the largest file is nearly 20 GIG.  I've had to do one recovery restore from a 6 gig backup file with no problems.

[Mark Kaishar]

Just to clarify, there is no 4GB limit on NTFS whether NT or Win2K.  I managed an Exchange Server a few years back on NT4 and the priv.edb file was 30GB, and pub.edb was 18GB, the entire exchange database was close to 50GB.
 
So this is not a problem on the Windows side, but SME itself.

Just my 2cents worth.

Mark

[Kelvin]

The 4Gb "limit" with NT4 refers to the fact that you cannot do a clean install onto a clean HDD and have the boot partition bigger than 4GB due to the fact that the installer first creates a FAT partition before converting it to NTFS. Any additional NTFS partitions created can be bigger than 4GB (up to 2^64), and of course any files on these other partitions can be bigger than 4GB as well. This is what Darrell was referring to as the 4GB "limit". And as he suggested, there is a known workaround and that is to first create and format an NTFS partition on a new hdd on an existing Winnt PC first before starting installation of NT on that hdd, NOT a recommended practice I might add.

However, this "problem" does not exist in W2K or XP as their installers can create and format NTFS partitions during installation.

Kelvin

[Greg Bellamy]

Garry,
I too ran into limitations with the backup. We use an Ibay for an internal Access database and another for a share for a 25 user network. On these systems the backup to desktop is much bigger than the 4gig limit. My solution was found at:

http://www.dungog.net

Stephen Noble did some great work and got a backup to split files and compress them with RAR. You setup the share on the windows box that you want to use, setup the mount in his custom panel, setup the backup parammeters (what files, ibays etc along with when you want it backed up) and then tell it to do it.

This gives you an automatic backup option to a shared windows drive, done with compression that windows can use (WinRAR) and in size increments that you can copy to CD or DVD for incremental backups.

He also integrated it with the Mitel backup panel options so the restore from desktop works. The cost is cheap compared to replacing the data ($29 for RAR, and I think it was $60 for all of Stephens fine work.)

Just my 2 cents and YMMV.

Greg Bellamy

[Robert Birks]

After perusing this thread ( I have the same problem ), I grabbed a 30 GB MAXTOR drive and zeroed it out using the MAXBLAST program. I then booted off the XP-PRO CD ROM and did a clean install on the raw drive, telling XP install to format it as an NTFS drive.

(Once again) I'm sitting at the never-endum 3.99 GB so I figure it's a problem within SME itself. The last thing to try ( has anyone ? ) is to try backing up to a LINUX ( as opposed to Windows ) machine and see if it sticks there also.

Someone please, please, try and then post a response.

[Kelvin]

Hi Robert,

As an alternative, have you tried backing up to disk as per the following howto :-

http://www.e-smith.org/docs/howto/contrib/flexbackup-to-disk-howto.htm

This basically tells flexbackup to treat the smb share are a streaming target (like a tape drive) which does not appear to suffer from the same problems.

Note that I have never done this myself on backups that large. I have only ever used this howto in situations where the SME server only acts as the gateway and mail server (hence the backups are small) and do not have a local tape drive. I bakup to a Windows 2000 server share and the tape drive on the W2K server backs up everything.

The other advantage is this may be scheduled as per a normal SME tape backup and so do not require manual intervention to initiate the backup.

The disadvantage is restores are not so straight forward.

Kelvin

[Robert Birks]

Thanks for the idea, and I'll try it if all else fails. It's important for my clients that the SME server act as an appliance, as no one on their staff, including me, can do much beyond spelling LINUX. If we get into a situation where the cost ( including manpower costs ) of implementing the SME solution approaches an off the shelf Windows server solution, the Windows soultion will be much more attractive.

The SME product is only really attractive to those organisations exceeding 10 clients but less than some number ( probably around 100 ) of clients who can justify a full time support person.

The idea of SME as a limited fuctionality plug-in appliance is very seductive, but....

[Kelvin]

Hi Robert,

>If we get into a situation where the cost ( including manpower costs ) of
>implementing the SME solution approaches an off the shelf Windows server
>solution, the Windows soultion will be much more attractive.

Agreed.

I don't always recommend SME as a total solution onto itself, rather as something that complements existing Windows based infrastructures. That said, I do have a couple of sites that runs happily off the SME as their only platform as well. It all depends on the situation at hand.


Kelvin