Topic: Ethernet woes

[del]

Hi Rhys,
The fact that after you uninstall netbuei your windows machines could no longer see each other tells you that tcp/ip is not configured properly, netbuei is a protocol that is normally foolproof on Windows machines and needs little or no settings other than to be installed on all the windows machines. Like Ray said you should check that all the windows machines have tcp/ip installed, they are configured to get a tcp/ip address automatically, they are all in the same workgroup and that the SME server is in the same workgroup and DHCP is set to ON in the SME configuration. If you are unsure about what IP range to use just keep the SME default values. I suggest you try these things after you uinstall netbuei (as you have discovered it is easy to reinstall netbuei).
Take a look here for Private IP Addresses: http://www.more.net/technical/netserv/tcpip/ipaddressing.html
Good luck and please try to follow our advice instead of going off on a tangent and creating other problems, if you go through your settings methodically on each machine one at a time making sure that the settings are correct you should have no problems at all and as Ray said if you don't understand anything post it here and you normally get an answer. I have solved 9 out of 10 of my problems with help from the good people here.
Del

[Andrej Fercic]

Hay Rhys !!!

If SME detect rtl (or whatever NIC) in the Setup mode, but this NIC does not work after reboot, be SURE to check BIOS (be Carefull) . Iy your BIOS have options like PnP OS present (installed) or whatever near this, be SURE to answer NO !!! I have the same expirience on my ASUS MB which runs now with 3 NICs (rtl and 3COM)...

Just check PnP OS in the BIOS , and answer NO !!! Then reinstall...

Please do a RE to the list !!! Good luck!

P.S.
Do NOT compare NT server with SME ever again !!!

[rhys]

I've checked PnP in the BIOS. It says "No" and as I've never changed it, I assume it always has said "No".

I've just done an ipconfig -all and copied down all the data from the configuration window of SME.

Interestingly, SME is not shutting down when I say "shutdown now". It's hanging after dropping down to single user, on sh-2.05.a#. It's also refusing to allow me into edit mode on the console menu. I have to do everything via a root login instead.

Here's the ipconfig of my Windows 98 machine. I can't run a monitor on both as I have just one monitor.

C:\AWKWARD>ipconfig -all

Windows 98 IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . : PERSIUS
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
        NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
        NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No

0 Ethernet adapter :

        Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
        Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . :
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
        Primary WINS Server . . . . :
        Secondary WINS Server . . . :
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

1 Ethernet adapter :

        Description . . . . . . . . : 3Com EtherLink PCI
        Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-50-04-36-AB-00
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.40.10
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . :
        Primary WINS Server . . . . :
        Secondary WINS Server . . . :
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

C:\AWKWARD>



                  Description . . . . . . . . : 3Com EtherLink PCI
                  Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-50-04-36-AB-00
                  DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
                  IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 169.254.72.239
                  Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
                  Default Gateway . . . . . . :
                  DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
                  Primary WINS Server . . . . :
                  Secondary WINS Server . . . :
                  Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 04 06 03 20:58:07
                  Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

                  From the Configuration window

                  Ethernet settings
                  Ethernet driver 1: 8139too
                  Ethernet driver 2:

                  External network settings
                  Operation mode: Server only - dedicated
                  Gateway IP address: 192.168.40.1

                  Local network settings
                  Local IP address: 192.168.40.1
                  Local subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
                  DHCP server: enabled, using host numbers from 192.168.40.65 to
                  192.168.40.250

                  Miscelleneous settings
                  Primary domain name: Sageworld
                  system name: zeus
                  external proxy : no
                  status reports: off
                  console mode: auto

                  contact details
                  contact email:
                  contact name:
                  contact organisation:

Any ideas? And can somebody explain concisely what a DHCP Server is and what a subnet mask is?

Rhys

[Cyrus Bharda]

Rhys,

google is your freind

What is a DHCP Server:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=what+is+dhcp

What a Subnet Mask is:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=what+is+subnet+mask

Both searches click on the first link for more information.

Cyrus Bharda

[Ray Mitchell]

Rhys

Your server IP is
Local IP address: 192.168.40.1

your workstation IP is
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.40.10

problem is your DHCP range is
DHCP server: enabled, using host numbers
from 192.168.40.65 to 192.168.40.250

I don't believe it will work this way.
Your workstation I suspect is not setup correctly to have its IP allocated by the DHCP server

Also have you got more than 1 NIC in your workstation, why the multiple config info ?? If you have more than one please remove all but one for now.

In Windows 98 Control panel select Network/Configuration tab
If you have any other protocols eg NetBui or SPX/IPX installed then remove them.
Instal the TCP/IP protocol ONLY if not already installed.
Highlight the  TCP/IP protocol that is bound to your NIC eg
TCP/IP > Intel Pro 100+ or whatever in your case
select Properties
under the various tabs you should have the following
IP - obtain address automatically
Wins config - Use DHCP for Wins resolution
DNS config - disable DNS
gateway - blank
the other tabs wil probably set automatically to the correct default values

Under the control panel/Network/Indentification tab
workgroup - should be the same name as shown in sme server manager panel for workgroup setting

Save all the settings

In Windows 98
select Start/Run then type winipcfg OK

you will see some figures displayed
select the NIC adapter you have from the arrowed list (rather than a PPP setting)
clck on Releaser button, this will release all settings that the w/s got from the sme server
Then click on the Renew all button to re-establsh new settings.

You shoul see something like
adapter address - whatever
IP address - should be in the range 192.168.40.65 to 192.168.40.250
subnet mask - should be same as your serevr 255.255.255.0
gateway - 192.168.40.1 same as your server assuming your server is setup to be the gateway for your network.

Try all this out and report back to this same thread please.

By the way, do you only have one server on the network and is it a sme. If you have multiple servers you can only have one of them as DHCP server.

>                   Primary domain name: Sageworld
would generally be entered as sageworld.com (or whatever)

>                   console mode: auto

you need to change this setting to "login" using the server console/configure this server option, step through all the settings without changing them until you see this one, it is near the end.

By the way you have been told this before and obviously didn't change it.

If you want sme server as your internet gateway you will need to change this
>                   Operation mode: Server only - dedicated
to gateway mode

That'll be $130 tech call out fee please !!! Ha ha

Regards
Ray Mitchell

[Terry Brummell]

I believe rhys mentioned a while ago that the sme is not his gateway, I think he said he uses dialup on the 98 box.  That's coming from memory, I could be wrong.

[rhys]

I'll have to print out Ray's advice now. That's the problem with using two computers and only one monitor.

Terry - you're correct. My network is configured as follows:
PC (Persius) - P166 SS7 (AT) handles the modem tasks and connects to Laptop (Aphrodite) and server (Zeus) via RJ45. Currently Laptop and PC won't talk via RJ45 but will via BNC. Server has no BNC.

Only one NIC card is in use on each machine.

Persius has a 3 com combo card set to auto (so that it'll work with both BNC and RJ45)

Zeus has a Sitecom card with solely RJ45. (I do also have a 3Com RJ45 card for Zeus but it's not installed and its condition is untested - I got it from a junk box).

Rhys

[Geeze]

One other question that should be asked is ,  how is he trying to connect the SME box to any of his other pc's? Since he is using as he says rj45, is he using a hub in the middle or does he have a crossover Cat5 cable? Since he is also saying that his other pc's are connected with thinwire(coax), could he be thinking that cat5 works the same, and he doesn't have the correct wiring between the boxes? just my 2 cents.  Sound like he needs a networking 101 class adn a tcp/ip 101 class, anyone have a link on the web to a good place that explains this stuff for a novice?

[rhys]

I do have a hub sitting on top of my server, unconnected, at the moment.
The current setup is Zeus and Persius are connected via RJ45 patch cable and a crossover adaptor.

When I run my BNC setup, that's just a connection from my laptop to Persius.

Just one thought... Does it matter that I haven't unplugged the BNC cable from Persius? I haven't got Aphrodite connected to the BNC cable. Just a thought.

Rhys

[Dan Brown]

I don't believe the NIC in Persius (or any other NIC) will communicate via both BNC and RJ45 at the same time.  Try unplugging the BNC, and see if that makes a difference.  The card would be able to sense that the cable is connected, and might be trying to use that connection instead of the RJ45.

[Dave Liquorice]

One thing to be aware of when changing network cables type (from BNC to RJ45 or vice versa) is that the machines will almost certainly need a cold boot and may even need to be power cycled. Simply swaping cables about won't work, the cards detect the network cable at boot time and stick to it. Also having both types  of cable plugged in simultaneously may lead to troubles, especialy if the other end is connected to anything powered up.

Cheers
Dave.

[Ray Mitchell]

Rhys
Is there a reason why you want to use the workstation (Persius) to connect via modem to Internet, the sme server is designed to do this and share this connection to all PC's connected on the network. sme server has a built in firewall which you should trust as do many many other users.

You need to set up a basic system and troubleshoot it, and then you can add other workstations etc later.
My suggestion is:
For now only connect the server (Zeus) and a workstation running Windows 98(Persius) together using RJ45 cable with the crossover adapter.
Remove ALL BNC type thin ethernet cables.
Remove all protocols from the workstation except TCP/IP and configure the workstation as per my previous instruction.
Confirm or check that your sme server NIC setting is correct for the NIC you have in the server.
Shutdown the windows workstation.
Shutdown the server, you can log on as admin to the Server console and select shutdown from the menu.
Start the server and after it has fully started, then start the workstation.
Assuming you have done all the settings previously advised then  on the Windows 98 workstation do Start/Run/winipcfg OK
Select the NICadapter name you have installed, you should now see (hopefully) correct values (as per previous advice). Click OK to exit this screen
Select Start/Run and type in ping  192.168.40.1   OK
You should see the workstation "pinging" the server and see some response eg Reply .........

If this works, then good you have a connection between your w/s and server.
If not something is still not right.

Please report back to this thread again your results, good or bad.

More to come later depending on what's needed. Please don't rush ahead.

Regards
Ray Mitchell

[Ray Mitchell]

Rhys

> I do have a hub sitting on top of my server, unconnected, at
> the moment.

You have a hub but are not using it, why not ??

> When I run my BNC setup, that's just a connection from my
> laptop to Persius.
> Just one thought... Does it matter that I haven't unplugged
> the BNC cable from Persius? I haven't got Aphrodite connected
> to the BNC cable. Just a thought.

You can't just plug and unplug BNC thin ethernet cables and not have computers connected to the end of the cable, they generally have to remain permanently connected as they need to be terminated correctly. Do you have termination set internally "on" inside each NIC for the BNC cable. Alternatively do you have a T connector and a 50 ohm terminator resistor on each end of the cable at the back of each NIC card.
If you don't terminate ethernet cable correctly it just won't work !!

Anyway this is an aside as you do not really want to be using BNC & thin ethernet cabling.

Your final arrangement should be to plug each workstation and server NIC directly into the hub using Cat 5 twisted pair cabling with RJ45 plugs. Nothing more to do it's that easy.

Get a NIC card for your laptop that supports RJ45 if you do not have one at the moment.

Please report back to this thread.
Regards
Ray Mitchell

[rhys]

OK. Latest news.
I'd tried using RJ45 without unplugging my BNC cable from Persius, when I wanted communication between just Aphrodite and Persius (NT4 - W98). That didn't work. As soon as I unplugged the BNC cable from Persius (despite the fact that the BNC cable didn't communicate with anything else, I had a connection.

Next, I removed the Netbuei connection from Aphrodite. Netbuei was the only connection protocol in use. I substituted it with TCP/IP and gave it an address of 1 greater than Persius.

Hey Presto, Aphrodite and Persius now talk to each other down an RJ45 line.

Having got Aphrodite to work like this, I'm probably in a better position to whinge about Zeus. I'll have to try Zeus later. I'm pushed for time now. There's a local Linux group meeting (nobody there uses SME) so I'll be back after a few (what's the Aussie slang) Schooners?

Rhys

[Ray Mitchell]

Rhys
If you want your workstations to be able to talk to the server then the w/s and server must ALL have the IP address in the correct range.
One of your w/s (persius I think it was) has an IP of 192.168.40.10 whereas it needs to be in the range 192.168.40.65 to 192.168.40.250 which your sme DHCP server is providing to the network.. This should happen automatically if you set everything up correctly (as advised).

Things are obviously improving but you are going about it the wrong way.
Get one workstation to talk to the server (troubleshoot it if needed) and when things are running right then add other workstations.
Nothing is gained greatly by getting two w/s to talk to each other. This connection between workstations will happen automatically when you get the workstations talking to the server.

Regards
Ray