Topic: Better hardwaresupport!

[Mike]

Is there an kernel-update in sight for better hardware support of newer chipsets, IDE controllers and so on, because I thought I would go crazy trying to patch the kernel to support my chipset.
That is no work for beginners like me.
SME runs on 2.4.18-5 and the chipset of my brand new motherboard (VT8235) is supported from 2.4.20 and higher.
Really frustrating.

http://www.e-smith.org/bboard//read.php?f=1&i=28632&t=28632

Hope Mitel will see this and update Kernels with a bit higher frequency in the future.

Thanks Mike

[Kelvin]

Hi Mike,

I take it this means you have given up. I don't blame you.

>Hope Mitel will see this and update Kernels with a bit higher frequency in the
>future.

I would much, much, MUCH prefer if Mitel stuck to the kernels that comes with the standard download versions of RedHat. Hardware support would be MUCH simpler. If security is an issue, no problem, I can put a hardware firewall / router in front of it and you can EASILY convince clients to put out the extra money for them. (Besides, hard-core security people will tell you that a firewall should be just that, a firewall and nothing else). I'd rather have a functional file server that has better (read as WIDER) hardware support.

Kelvin

[Mike]

I never really give up but I had enough of it for a wile (short while).
Also saw your other replay.
I have been checking out the source of the patch.
I will have a look at it again with your printed out explenation.
Hope I will get it then.
For patching the kernel I got a person at work who has much more Linux knowledge.
Got some tips there on how I should have a go at it.
I never give up.
When I know how to do it than You and Nathan are the first to know.

[Jon Blakely]

Mike,

I have managed to patch the kernel for VIA8235 support. It took several other  patches to get it to the state where the final patch worked without hunk errors.
I was able to "make config" but "make modules" broke with errors which I havn't had a chance to track down yet.

Jon

[Charlie Brady]

Jon Blakely wrote:

> I have managed to patch the kernel for VIA8235 support. It
> took several other  patches to get it to the state where the
> final patch worked without hunk errors.
> I was able to "make config" but "make modules" broke with
> errors which I havn't had a chance to track down yet.

Why don't you just use RedHat's 2.4.20-18.7 kernel RPM?

Charlie

[Jon Blakely]

Charlie,

I like the challenge

Honestly, I felt it would be educational to have a play with patching and compiling kernels.

Jon

[Mike]

>Why don't you just use RedHat's 2.4.20-18.7 kernel RPM?
Wish I would have known that sooner
Just found on the internet yesterday that kernel-2.4.20-18.7 is the last kernel that is supported by Redhat 7.3.
I run an Athlon so I found the right kernel here:
http://www.klid.dk/pub/redhat/linux/updates/7.3/en/os/athlon/
Am going to try that on a fresh installed system at the end of the day.

Thanks Charlie, and Kelvin, there is still hope....

[Kelvin]

Hi Mike,

I actually knew about the RH kernel upgrade. However, without knowing what else is tied to the normal kernel used in SME 5.6, I was not game to try upgrading the kernel.

And what if all my favourite contribs stopped working as they should due to the upgraded kernel   ? I'd be in the same boat as SME 5.6 unpatched, as far as getting some of the other controllers, etc. that I'm working with to work anyway.

Additionally, upgrading the kernel is something that can only be done after the fact. If you need to install onto a currently unsupported controller (but will be once you upgrade the kernel), you still can't do it until the kernel gets patched, and you can't patch the kernel until you install it, and you can't install it until ...... Of course, there's always a possibility your could install it onto another (supported) controller first then transfer it after upgrading ...... but wait.... that won't work with some RAID controllers as the RAID pack must be established first ......

Kelvin

[Charlie Brady]

Kelvin wrote:

> I actually knew about the RH kernel upgrade. However, without
> knowing what else is tied to the normal kernel used in SME
> 5.6, I was not game to try upgrading the kernel.

I've mentioned a number of times that PPTP functionality is the only standard feature linked to the kernel version.  Any IPSEC addon will also be tied to a particular kernel. (You will probably find that the  required modules are probably available in RPM form for any RedHat kernel.)

> And what if all my favourite contribs stopped working as they
> should due to the upgraded kernel   ?

Why would they do that? And if they did, you could just downgrade the kernel again, couldn't you?

> I'd be in the same
> boat as SME 5.6 unpatched, as far as getting some of the
> other controllers, etc. that I'm working with to work anyway.

Kelvin, as seems often to be the case, you want to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to use the off-the-shelf software, use it only on hardware which is fully supported - there's plenty of such hardware available. If you want the software to be "enhanced", then you should be prepared to be part of the research and development effort to enhance the software. Your part, in this case, would simply be to try upgrading the kernel, and reporting whether it solved your problem.

Charlie

[Kelvin]

G'Day Charlie,

>> And what if all my favourite contribs stopped working as they
>> should due to the upgraded kernel ?
>
>Why would they do that? And if they did, you could just downgrade the kernel
>again, couldn't you?

Could we just downgrade after an upgrade ? Without knowing exactly what the contribs are tied to (kernel wise), I am in no position to know if they will work correctly or not after a kernel upgrade. .noarch contribs probably won't care, but binary based contribs might.

>> I'd be in the same
>> boat as SME 5.6 unpatched, as far as getting some of the
>> other controllers, etc. that I'm working with to work anyway.
>
>Kelvin, as seems often to be the case, you want to have your cake and eat it
>too. If you want to use the off-the-shelf software, use it only on hardware which is
>fully supported - there's plenty of such hardware available. If you want the
>software to be "enhanced", then you should be prepared to be part of the
>research and development effort to enhance the software. Your part, in this case,
>would simply be to try upgrading the kernel, and reporting whether it solved your
>problem.

Charlie, as I deal with hardware on a daily basis, I am fully aware of how quickly "supported hardware" gets superceded. In the case of VIA southbridge support for example, it is getting harder to buy brand new boards based on the older "fully supported" chipset, but this is just one example.

Off the shelf software that cannot easily install drivers to support newer hardware become harder to support or use and in some cases, simply unsable at all on newer hardware. This is the reason I continually test to see if I can get SME to run on new hardware like new IDE RAID controllers etc. If and when I do, you should have seen that I have been more than happy to help others in these forums when they hit similar problems with similar hardware and contribute back with howtos, etc to the best of my knowledge (after all, I've often stated the fact that my background is Windows not linux), as was the case when I worked on the integration of the OnStream DI-30 drives back with SME 5.1.2. Therefore, your implication that I am not willing to be part of the r&d effort is unjustified and certainly unappreciated. If I really could not care less about putting any effort into getting things to work, you would not know it, because I will simply be a silent participant of these forums, as is the case with a number of people I know. Besides, if you don't rock the boat sometimes, you don't get anywhere fast .

Kelvin

[Mike]

Ho ho guys

Hope I was not the reason for a quarrel here.
Charlie, in the first place I would like to tell you that the fact that I have problems with hardware on E-Smith doesn't mean that I do not like The SME server.
I am absolutely sure that the SME Server is a VERY GOOD product.
I always liked to work with it.
The only problem I always have is the support of hardware.
It runs fine on old boxes but if you would like to run a more modern faster server than I always run in to problems.
Mostly it is the IDE-drivers.
I hope you don't see it as an attach on the SME Server because it is not meant to be. It is mearly a statement that I hope Mitel will use to improve the hardware support on the SME. For your information, I have an 200Gb WD 100MB/s harddisk that I am using with the SME server.
The problem is that I have never run it without problems.
Not because the harddisk would not run on SME but because I tried to have it run at it's full speed (100MB/s, not 33MB/s). I have run it on:
-a "Highpoint HPT366 will not run at all.
-a "Highpoint Rocket Raid 404" (HPT374) will not run at all.
-a Promise ULTRA100 TX2 PC hangs with harddisk I/O errors, sometimes dayly an sometimes not for weeks (Latest BIOS).
-and now on a new motherboard with a vt8235 chipset wich is not supported and therefor doesn't let me switch to hdparm.
And no, it is not the harddisk that is faulty because it runs O.K. on 33MB/s on my new motherboard and it also has run O.K. on old motherboards on 33MB/s.

>Why don't you just use RedHat's 2.4.20-18.7 kernel RPM?
I was unable to find kernel-head*-2.4.20-18.7.*.rpm

I wish I was capable of upgrading to 2.4.20-* or to patch 2.4.18-5, and beleve me I have put a lot of effort into that but I'm just not a Linux heavyweight (Big understatement).
Like Kelvin, my knowledge is based on Windows and I also work with hard and sofatware on a dayly basis.
Charlie, not everyone has so much Linux knowledge as you and can just upgrade or downgrade the kernel.
That's a matter of fact, since I have been searching through the internet on how to upgrade or patch a kernel, I have only seen people writing where they failed in the path to upgrade the kernel. I have never ones seen a description of someone telling exactly how to do it and what you sould do if the patching or upgrading failed at some point.
I think that upgrading or patching a kernel is only for the few gifted or experienced people.
Searching the internet I even think that less than 1% of the people that are running or experimenting with Linux are really capable of upgrading or patching a kernel succesfully.

Someone asked me if it was worth the hassle because he thought that it would not be such a difference. I don't know anymore who asked me that, I was unable to quickly find it back but here are some figures from VIA (VT8235 Patch).

Harddiskspeed without a kernel-patch:         5.96 Mb/s
Harddiskspeed with the VIA kernel-patch:   39.51 Mb/s

Quite a difference, don't you think.
When I now FTP a ISO-file to my server from a fast computer over a 100Mbit network with no other network trafic, my transferspeed is about 3MB/s and ofter even drops underneath the 3MB/s.
This while I have seen 10MB/s when I was running on the Promise ULTRA100 TX2 when it did work and that was even WITHOUT HDPARM enabled.

Charlie, I'm sure it would be highly appreciated by many people if you would make a document available on how to patch or upgrade the lastest SME-kernel with hints and tips about what could go wrong and how to solve the most common problems.
Me and obviously most other people too, have problems with the right versions of the RPM's (Glibc-devel, Kernel-Headers,...) they need to install to succesfully upgrade the kernel of the SME Server.
That way you would probably get much more input on succesfull patch and upgrade possibilities and that would be a PRO on the SME research and development especially for hardwaresupport on SME.

[Clint]

I would appreciate a guide on recompiling the kernel as well, for various reasons.

One quick question, if I was to download the 2.4.21 kernel from kernel.org and attempt recompiling the system kernel, would/could it work (under SME 5.6)?

[Mike]

I ended up trying many kernels because I have a real POOR Linux knowledge but I am determaint to get my chipset supported.
Now trying kernel-2.4.20-18.7
Follow this latest thread:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=7880.msg29171#msg29171
If I succeed than I will put on there how I did it.

[mike]

I finally have got a SME-dual boot with 2 kernels.
2.4.20-18.7 does not yet run wel but the beginning is there.
For a description on how to do it go here:
http://www.e-smith.org/bboard//read.php?f=1&i=29007&t=29007