Koozali.org: home of the SME Server

A word from a humble W98 nerd

Erik

A word from a humble W98 nerd
« on: July 22, 2000, 01:20:45 PM »
I know you e-smith developers peek into this anthill of messages with great interest...

As a plain and Linux-ignorant but DOS/Windows-knowledgable e-smith user (I know, I see your smiles and hear your giggles all the way over the atlantic :´-() I feel I can´t refrain from expressing my thoughts. I love e-smith, that´s not the problem. What I don´t like is when it ships with new "features" without a word from the author... No, go away, ugly thought - they couldn´t be the "problems" fixed by the contact provided by the $595 annual subscription fee?? ;-)

My e-smith 3.1 i-bays had long wonderful names, that sort of explained something about the content. 4.0 found the names and accepted them. But, as by logic of a politician, my next i-bay could only be 12 letters long. Now, what would come next? Would my old i-bays be automatically erased at midnight, to protect me from the dangers of long i-bays names? To be certain the i-bay contents would not suffer any harm, they would be painlessly killed if I erased the i-bay and created a new one. Well, I had a W98 machine to back up the content, so I made new names with maximum 6 letter (you never know about the future "features"!)

The Windows nerd kind that I represent is the Big Market for e-smith, let´s face it... We get the creeps from the Linux root#! Now, how would you ever understand the feeling... Yes! Use a W98 machine as your corporate server, and rely on it over night! Now, you get a hang of the belly ache?

The Bill Gates gang hasn´t provided the world with reliable servers. If that had been their mission, Bill and his companions would still be counting thousands instead of billions... But they did what the technofobian world of average customers wanted, and I think this way of thinking is the clue to their success:

1. They developed software that installs itself during the lunch break.

2. They didn´t call alfa versions Final Releases.

I guess the vast majority of e-smith users want e-smith for it´s outstanding stability and simplicity. Yes, simplicity! For upgrading and installations, I guess most of them rob some of the LAN workstations of the keyboard, mouse and screen, plug the stuff into their 1996 model Pentium75 leftovers where e-smith resides and ask their teenage sons to help them understand what is going on.

Why? Because they expect to have to do it twice a year... but when it turns out that they have been provided with software that needs bug fixing twice a month, and they read in the Bulletin Board that someone in Taiwan fixed it by some Cyrillian alphabet command line in under root#, they pray Bills forgiveness and go back to their Windows server - they happily restart it once day to be ahead of the next hang-up. Hey, so what? They have a herd of Users in their LAN who want to be able to log in to access their files - and they love the mandatory server restart break at lunch time!

I feel e-smith might be the bridge between user simplicity and Linux reliability and low pricing. Please, don´t offer too many functions before you loose grip and can handle them with simplicity! You´re in no hurry - no Linux software I know of comes close to the user friendlyness - you can afford an extra few months of thourough testing before releases. It might be better to have $55 annual subscriptions by 100000 users answering simple questions than 10000 at $595 solving elaborate problems at root#.

Thank you for your attention.

Erik

Joseph Morrison

RE: A word from a humble W98 nerd
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2000, 06:25:19 PM »
Dear Erik,

> I know you e-smith developers peek into this anthill of
> messages with great interest...

Yes, that is true :-) Actually we keep close tabs on this bulletin board to find out what people are looking for in our products and services and to learn how we can do a better job.

> As a plain and Linux-ignorant but DOS/Windows-knowledgable
> e-smith user (I know, I see your smiles and hear your giggles
> all the way over the atlantic :´-() I feel I can´t refrain
> from expressing my thoughts.

Good! You are exactly the kind of customer we are trying to reach, and we would like to know your thoughts.

> I love e-smith, that´s not the problem.

Also good :-)

> What I don´t like is when it ships with new "features"
> without a word from the author... No, go away, ugly thought
> - they couldn´t be the "problems" fixed by the contact
> provided by the $595 annual subscription fee?? ;-)

No, we are not that cynical :-)

> But, as by logic of a politician, my next i-bay could only be
> 12 letters long.

We've done extensive testing and found that some Windows machines cannot access shares with names longer than 13 characters. So if you create a 14-character i-bay name and try to access it from one of these brain-damaged Windows machines, you get "share not found" error messages from Windows - and of course it looks like e-smith is broken. So that's why we decided to implement the restriction. What would you recommend? We are open to changing this behavior in the next version. Normally our reasoning is that we normally prefer to impose limitations in order to eliminate a possible type of weird failure.

> Now, what would come next? Would my old i-bays be
> automatically erased at midnight, to protect me from the
> dangers of long i-bays names?

I don't know... that seems kind of drastic :-) But we're thinking of automatically deleting i-bays that haven't been accessed for over one month. *Just Kidding* :-)

> I feel e-smith might be the bridge between user simplicity
> and Linux reliability and low pricing. Please, don´t offer
> too many functions before you loose grip and can handle
> them with simplicity! You´re in no hurry - no Linux software
> I know of comes close to the user friendlyness - you can
> afford an extra few months of thourough testing before
> releases.

Please explain more. Do you have any bugs to report with 4.0?

And as for the months of testing, you may not be aware of our history. We were a husband and wife team working from our home until March 5, 2000. We closed our first round of financing in April and in the last three months have hired 18 staff, moved into office space, replaced our P-90 server running on a residential ADSL connection - with a rack of VA Linux servers running on high-speed Internet connections. We're serving hundreds of Gb of e-smith downloads (at significant cost) to give away our software for free - whereas we were serving a tiny fraction of that only a couple of months ago. I think we've done pretty well considering the changes we've been dealing with!

Now that we've stabilized, I think you'll see a more orderly release process for future e-smith versions though. You are right that we can always do things better.

> It might be better to have $55 annual subscriptions by
> 100000 users answering simple questions than 10000 at
> $595 solving elaborate problems at root#.

With our new pricing, we're trying to clarify what our business is. We're still going to continue giving away our software for
free via our FTP site. However, our primary product is a complete solution for small business comparable to Microsoft Small Business Server - including media, support, and upgrades. We are tentatively discontinuing the media package to eliminate the confusion that it has been causing.

Still, as a small company that is growing, we are listening to what you say and will take it into consideration.

Thanks for listening, and please stay in touch!

- Joseph Morrison, CEO
  e-smith, inc.

Erik

Another word from a humble W98 nerd
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2000, 10:45:17 PM »
Thank you. I like your history, and I´m certain you will do well. Your product has excellent potential.

A problem with nice Internet pages is their tendency not to discriminate a small family business from industries the size and reputation of Mercedes Benz. To the end user, however, it makes a difference:
When someone upgrades his model 2000 Mercedes 310 to a model 2000 Mercedes 400 because he likes the cylinders in two groups instead of all in a row, he expects the rest of the car to behave just like the old one. When he realizes that Mercedes also permanently locked the left back door because other cars had a tendency to run into it in the street if it opens, I guess he is surprised. At least he had expected a little note in the car mentioning it before the upgrade. Now his kids will fight their way through the right back door until the next upgrade, the model 2000 Mercedes 410... He chooses to drive his Buick98... Never know about the front doors!

I hope you don´t mind this humorous metaphore. Metaphores are ideal in serving the purpose of making people (you) see a problem from another angle. I admit, however, that my metaphore is effectively punctured in one respect: He doesn´t get his Mercedes upgrades for free...

To be more serious, a little note of the "12 character" problem in your download "Readme" would have left me with a choice: Upgrade for the benefits and take the hazzle of copying, deleting and renaming the i-bays, or stay with tho old?

Bugs?
Yes, I was thinking of country specific letters. There is a problem with Norwegian letters in i-bays, but this problem is a heritage from e-smith 3.1. It´s inconvenient not to be able to save file names by their domestic names, including domestic letters. I have seen in the bulletin board that others have had the same experience. I can live with it, but not the ones who share domestic documents. The name of Scandinavian Meetballs get a dirty ring with an "o" in it, so it´s hard to share recipies. Also domestic characters can´t be used in the short Descripion of groups and i-bays. I know, it doesn´t come in handy for an english speaking engineer to think of testing this, but the customers in the 700 million people European market notice this bug instantly. And good luck with chinese...;-)

By the way, the links in the left frame of your new home page don´t point right.

Thank you.
Erik

Paul Nesbit

RE: Another word from a humble W98 nerd
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2000, 02:41:56 AM »
Hi Erik,

Erik wrote:
>  Bugs?
>  Yes, I was thinking of country specific letters. [...] Also
> domestic characters can´t be used in the short Descripion of
> groups and i-bays. I know, it doesn´t come in handy for an
> english speaking engineer to think of testing this, but the
> customers in the 700 million people European market notice
> this bug instantly. And good luck with chinese...;-)

You should be pleased to know that we are now working towards internationalization (I18N) for the e-smith server and gateway version 5.0.

>  By the way, the links in the left frame of your new home page
>  don´t point right.

Can you elaborate?  They seem to be working fine for me.

Erik

RE: Another word from a humble W98 nerd
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2000, 08:20:55 AM »
Good news!

Elaborate?
At e-smith.NET the links from Developer Partnership and down point to the page named in the link below. Yes, I do use the Bill Gatez browser, but it isn´t THAT bad...

Erik

Joseph Morrison

RE: Another word from a humble W98 nerd
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2000, 06:48:08 PM »
Hi Erik,

> Elaborate? At e-smith.NET the links from Developer Partnership
> and down point to the page named in the link below. Yes, I do
> use the Bill Gatez browser, but it isn´t THAT bad...

Are you sure your web browser hasn't cached the navigation bar? I've tried it on multiple web browsers and it seems fine. Try refreshing the navigation frame.

Bye for now,
- Joe

Erik

Word from a total nerd
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2000, 08:07:26 PM »
Sorry about that! It did cache the old nav bar. There I got my words about not testing back into my throat...;-)

Won´t bother you again unless having doublechecked on another computer, I promise.

Sorry I took your time
Erik

David Campbell

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2000, 08:13:41 PM »
LOL

Refresh
Reset Web Settings
Clear Temporary Internet Files
Clear History

Nightmares...  I say this stuff on a minute-ly basis at work (phone tech support for winblowsians who use the words "huh!?" or "whaa!?" as opposed to "pardon?")

E-smith - Are you guys based in Ottawa?

Kim Morrison

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2000, 09:46:00 PM »
Hi David!

We have offices in Boston and Ottawa.  We were founded in Ottawa and the majority of our staff are located in Ottawa, but we are a US company, headquartered in Boston.

- Kim

Mike Stoddart

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2000, 02:57:09 AM »
I know this is getting off-topic, and treading areas I probably shouldn't go, but how are you guys doing financially with the E-Smith software, excluding financial backing (Red Hat and Greylock)? Are you anticipating long-term financial success (which of course I wish you)?

Kim Morrison

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2000, 03:19:21 AM »
Hi Mike!

Thanks for your inquiry  and for the support you've always shown us.

Well, e-smith is a pretty new company - we only closed our first round of financing the end of April. Before that time, it was really Joe and me running out of our home.  Despite being so resource constrained, we've done amazingly well at reaching early adopters through such free forums as Linux Today and through public relations.  

Since we closed our financing, we have built up our infrastructure and staff and have begun the PR process.  We are also moving aggressively toward building out services that to an even greater extent will simplify and enhance the networking experience of our customers.  

At the same time, we will be devoting attention and resources to reaching the SME audiences that are the kind of customers willing to pay us sustaining revenues in exchange for services.  We are also working hard to sign up systems integrator partners.

The SME internetworking infrastructure market is huge (approx $50B!).  The e-smith technology is wonderful.  Our vision of supplying enhanced services that leverage off of that technology is really exciting.

So, do we anticipate doing well financially??

oh yaaaaa.  Astronomically so!  :)

- Kim

Mike Stoddart

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2000, 03:30:37 AM »
Well keep your feet on the ground, and good luck! Without sounding too brown-nosey, I prefer E-Smith over say Redhat simply because the quality of your releases are vastly superior. I got tired of installing Redhat (and derivations) and finding it bloated full of stuff I didn't use, and also finding so many things that didn't work. I'm busy downloading E-Smith 4 as we speak. I installed E-Smith 3.1 a long time ago and it has never failed me. The machine's only been rebooted because of power failures (storms - damn you Nepean Hydro!! - and maintenance in the apartment building). Now that HAS to be commendable! (Can I have a job?! *chuckle*)

Cheers

Kim Morrison

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2000, 03:32:22 AM »
Mike Stoddart wrote:

Aw, thanks for the encouraging words.  

(Can I have a job?! *chuckle*)

We *are* hiring, you know!

- Kim

Mike Stoddart

RE: Word from a total nerd
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2000, 03:40:49 AM »
:)  My pleasure - I don't jump on bandwagons for the sake of it. E-Smith definitely has my support.

Are there any plans for including mirroring or a journalling file system, or for providing similar functionality?

Christophe

Wordzz from a total nerd
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2001, 01:46:04 AM »
This is getting way off-topic, but still !
I was a W98 constraint guy, got my way and found your distribution.
Amazing, just that and you deserve much more than what we can read here.
Do you plan to translate (yes, said it before, you are getting more and more on the french network, i can see from the typos. Need any help for translations ?
Salary wished : Tell me how to remotely (internal network, on windows ME or Linux mandrake) check the incoming/outgoing traffic (not the police tracing, just the ips and the number of packets

Sorry for bothering, just thought you'd like to know that you're getting well known, in all acceptances of the sentence ;>)