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Webmin on e-smith?


Webmin on e-smith?
« on: October 13, 2003, 01:27:10 PM »

Will an admin tool like webmin (www.webmin.com) work on SME5.6? I have installed it once, and it did run on the test server, but I scratched the server again as I had to use it elsewhere.

My concern is e-smiths use of templates, is that a regular linux feature or is it an e-smith speciality?

Regards Henrik.


Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2003, 02:41:46 PM »
1 word, Don't!  Do a search on webmin and you'll see many reasons why.


Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2003, 02:42:09 PM »
The Template feature is something e-smith does...

Why would you want to use webmin?? when e-smith has it's own interface


Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2003, 03:59:26 PM »
Utter rot, I run a modified 1.110 on a 6.03 beta box. If you want to cope with the web interface of 6.0 or 5.6 thats fine, but some people need to work. It's the ONLY way to make ESmith palatable and commercially acceptable.

I dont like Webmin but the MAS box commercially available from Mitel is handicapped by lack of thought, design credibility and intelligent reaction to functions that ship WITH the distro.

Take QMail and Samba. There are easily flaggable options that a cgi that takes 5 mins to write could be made to work but in two years all we've had with ESmith is port forwarding added....

Web frontends are childs play. Very very simple.

I love ESmith - Dan York and I worked together at Linuxcare and its SO close to being exactly what people need. It's so close yet so far.



email: dick@dickmorrell.com, website: www.dickmorrell.com
Award Winning author - SmoothWall - Linux Format Award Winner 2001-3, PC Pro finalist 2002.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2003, 04:44:59 PM »
Any chance then, Dick, that you could go to the far end, and start fixing?
And I don't mean the near far end. I mean the FAR FAR end....

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2003, 04:55:22 PM »
none at all I'm maxed out. The daft thing is all this would take would be some senior ESmith package maintainers, toilet roll, food and good coffee. Lock them in a bunker for a week with a wishlist and they get a present. The keys to a new revenue stream and the keys to a prosperous future. They'd get the kingdom of heaven.

What do I know ? I only made about seven times more revenue from web based distros than Mitel made from ESmith last year.

I love ESmith but it has all the forward movement and motion and passion of a frog squashed by a lorry.

There is so much revenue to be made too. Shame that their channel is so lethargic and so badly trained. They are so damn close and there isnt much I wouldnt do to sort it but Mitel dont return calls and emails.

If I look at my Mitel 6.0 boxes they run a third faster than stock 6.0, they're tightened to hell with automated security procedures, SpamAssassin is installed, Perl upgraded, Apache upgraded and tied down, PHP upgraded, webmin cut the hell down and the bulk domain and some third party add ons added. I've added in a lot more Samba functionality, support for CUPS and also X509 VPN server certificate creation with road warrior support (that works).

Sure I could have done this with RedHat but having met some of the board of RedHat I'd rather trust my cat to be a technical leader of the new free world.

Mitel could make a FORTUNE if they just got a big sheet of paper, listened to people and delivered a product on time. This stuff we have in beta 3 is plain crud and it takes an hr to make it into a product. It's laziness. Sure Charlie will slap me down to size but hell thats what I'm here for :) I had the SAME discussion four months ago with a Mitel engineer who worked with me at VA Linux and he was also lost for answers once he got less cocky. They could have the world on a plate all for the sake of being a little more switched on. I'm sure their shareholders would love the increased revenue and the increased dividend return.


Jens Kruuse

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2003, 10:41:57 PM »

You may have technical savy, but you come across as an arrogant and very, very bitter man. Lighten up a bit - Charlie & co were not the ones who "stole" SmoothWall away from you. I can't help wondering what exactly possessed you to post your trolls here in the first place?

To paraphase you: "I love this piece of crap developed by moronic slugs who have done nothing with a product (RH) I distrust". Riiiiight. :)


Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2003, 10:51:20 PM »
Stole SmoothWall ?? I sold SmoothWall... Wasn't trolling just stating a fact Jens. I suggest you check your information. I sold with attornies and auditors my majority shareholding. I'd watch your step discussing something you know VERY VERY little about. I made a nice pile too. Enough not to work for a very long time which considering three years of giving away and funding OpenSource is pretty good going.

No-one is trolling - only you. If you're looking for a rise thats cool you'll get one.

This is a technical fact the ESmith interface is handicapped by the ability of project leads to push it - basic fact. If a user with some common sense can extend the use of the system at the command line how tricky is it for a company to add value via a cgi. Thats the question Jens. Lets not try and be clever or start a flame war.

We're talking technical features NOT trolling.

If you need an adult to help you with the previous postings put your hand up.

Jens Kruuse

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2003, 01:38:54 AM »
I stand corrected. The fact is, that nobody "stole" SmoothWall from Dick. His posts were not trolls, and my attempt to paraphrase him was sorely lacking in accuracy.


Ed Form

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2003, 03:07:06 AM »
Jens Kruuse wrote:
> I stand corrected. The fact is, that nobody "stole"
> SmoothWall from Dick. His posts were not trolls, and my
> attempt to paraphrase him was sorely lacking in accuracy.

But it would be really good if he stopped posturing and put all these wonderful improvements he brags about into the same public domain as he took SME from to start the excercise - or would that compromise his ability to look like a super hero?

Ed Form


Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2003, 04:05:09 AM »
I've already heard enough of your insulting barking on the smoothwall ground.
Your attitude made me switch from it to SME and IPCop.
If you don't like SME, go ahead and make it better, then share your innovations.
Otherwise, just shut up keep on leaching quietly.

P.S. No, I do not want to be polite with this dick. I tried once before and it didn't work.

P.P.S For all other forum readers: please ignore this post. Its not intended to start the wholly war or flame.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2003, 05:13:51 AM »
Well, Mr Morrell, I must say that you're a rather well known individual. I have associates that regard you significantly lower than fly blown canine faeces. I'll admit to rapidly losing my struggle to keep an open mind on you personally. I have been told of your willingness to resort to threats of physical violence when faced with the possibility of losing an argument. I've been forwarded emails that supposedly originated from you, proporting this.
Please don't hold back in replying to anything on this list. I need a few more examples of your flowing prose and witty reparte to compare with the examples I already have.
I know of people who refuse to let smoothwall in their businesses because of your association with the project. I also know of renewed interest in it since you left, so perhaps it is your greatest contribution to smoothwall.
Rather than bring this decrepit operating system up to speed with your deft brilliance and intellectual prowess, I would request that you utilize your rights under the GPL and fork it.  Prove to the community that you're not just a windbag by forking off.
Alternatively, you could punish us by denying your glowing contribution to this project. I think we're pretty much unworthy of any help, advice or project leadership that you could offer. Yes, actually, I'm damn sure of it.
I'm also of the opinion that no-one would be able to appreciate fully your contributions, if you were to stoop so low to make them.
Perchance you would be better served on a project devoid of interaction with lesser beings?
I'm sure I could find no short list of people who could offer an indication of the direction you should take.
So, rather than dilute your brilliance in the sea of

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2003, 05:21:07 AM »
e-smith contributors, would it be possible for you to demonstrate your ability in another area? I hear Iraq is in need of leadership at the moment.
Don't forget your Union Jack waistcoat.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2003, 05:33:37 AM »
So a thread about a server process manager and the use of cgi's in the administration and automation of processes turns into a flame war.

Rather sad when actually ESmith is a cool product that I've used for three years in various remanufactured guises and sold in MAS form.

Andy - is this usual fare for you to behave like this or who do I sue ? I presume you attacking people over a perl script or a reasonable discussion over hows best to flag and turn on a system call or stop and start a process.

Regarding your comments on SmoothWall, I support IPCop with hardware and software donations. I also put more than you probably earn a year into supporting OpenSource projects. It's called putting back. Regardless of what you think of me (and judging by the fact you hide behind a hotmail address and got an erection typing that) you haven't the balls to stand up and be counted. No surprise there then.

Congratulations on spelling faeces correctly. You gained an extra point. Now was there a valid point to your post or do you troll for fun. I was hoping someone would say WHY they assumed webmin as a service on a non standard port using the redhat/esmith perl base was non sensical or insecure. I was hoping someone might point out issues with base rpms or with qmail borking. I didn't expect to find someone like you with the maturity and ability of an amoeba lurking.

As for companies not using SW - millions do. You're in a very very very very dust sized particle percentage. If it wasn't for me getting off my arse and standing up and putting my money where my mouth was there would be millions of networks all over the world not benefitting. I doubt the people who make McDonalds are out for plaudits or culinary awards. Doesnt stop them serving 30bn burgers  a year and dining out on the fiduciary benefits. I've made a lot of money from SW and associated technologies and a lot of it has gone straight back into funding community projects, charitable donations and making a difference in learning. Attack me if you will but all the time you do it with such crass punctuation, language and utter BS references you gain no credibility. I on the other hand have the credibility with the peers who I work with in the OpenSource industry. In fact I've been working with Linux Journal today on a new Iraqi project and I've just come back from giving two talks on OpenSource and security to two major universities. People listen and give qualified argument, you on the other hand represent the unwashed fragrant GPL troll who has nothing to add but plenty of volume.

Now back to the topic - why do you think webmin replacing the frankly dated and poor template based logic in ESmith or a replacement written in perl/php wouldnt help ESmith gain plaudits, and a place at the table where they deserve to be. A revenue stream for Mitel beckons if they can grab it. And say what you like about me there is only one unfunded Linux OpenSource house thats made the profits no-one else has and I founded and spent 20 hrs a day developing it.

Either stop trolling and being abusive and add or take this offline or come over and do it in person over a beer. I doubt you'd have the balls.



Enhancements to e-smith (was Re: Webmin on e-smith?)
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2003, 06:29:05 AM »
Dick Morrell wrote:

> actually ESmith is a cool product that I've
> used for three years in various remanufactured guises and
> sold in MAS form.

How/where can we obtain the source code to these improvements to e-smith?