Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Contribs.org Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: guest22 on September 06, 2013, 02:14:20 AM
-
It seems that the board list also includes non-board members.
http://lists.contribs.org/pipermail/board/
Why is this please, for I would like to pitch in my 2 cents on some or new topics, but I have been hand picked rejected. What does it take to be able to be a member of the board list? What is the rationale please?
If non board members can participate on a board list, why call it a board list?
guest
-
Why is this please, for I would like to pitch in my 2 cents on some or new topics, but I have been hand picked rejected. What does it take to be able to be a member of the board list? What is the rationale please?
You weren't rejected, you resigned.
If non board members can participate on a board list, why call it a board list?
guest
The board asked a couple individuals to be advisors to the board due to their exceptional contributions to the SME project. The advisors don't have an official vote on topics, but the board wants to hear their opinions directly instead of gleaning it from a community wide solicitation for comment or a private email message. Moreover, having their comments to the list instead of a private email, etc, keeps it on the record and open for all to see.
Perhaps John will chime in and add some additional comment. I hope this answers your questions.
Greg
-
Greg, you summed it up perfectly.
To clarify a little more for any one still left wondering.
A number of people privately mooted concerns that there were a couple of 'senior' members of the community who were not on the 'Board'. Ironically they had been asked, but were unable to join for varying personal reasons. It was felt that it may be a good idea to add them to the Board list in an advisory role. As Greg rightly pointed out they have no voting rights and do not participate in meetings.
There are plenty of channels for communication by the community available. The Board list is really just to maintain a clear line of communication for Board topics.
Anyone in the community can post their thoughts or comments here, on the discussion list, or contact anyone on the Board directly, and they will be listened too accordingly (hence both Greg and I have replied here). I would positively encourage everyone to ask questions or make comments and suggestions.
No one is excluded from making their thoughts and feelings known, good or bad. However, if you feel something is wrong or you have a criticism then I would ask that you make sure you have a positive alternative to go with it.
B. Rgds
John
-
You weren't rejected, you resigned.
Nope, after I resigned I wanted to contribute my 'skills' and experience as an advisor. It was rejected. Surely you must have a record of that board decision.
Thanks for the clarifications.
guest
-
ps. It seems that a lot of board discussion is going on off-list and private, despite the promises and referrals to the purpose and openness of the board list.
Could that be because the board uses Google tools which are not caught/synced by any SME Server organised provided tools?
For my questions are asked because of the lack of the board reporting about decisions and/or considerations (in advance), let alone consultations with the community by not publishing or sharing any board discussions. Let alone the questions by board members asking questions that do not get addressed or get 'silenced'.
Neither did the board comment on a final statement of the move/sell of 'SME Server private equipment' to other entities. That discussion was cut off by the board by means of advisors and/or assistants locking discussions. How's that for openness???
A SME Server version 8.1 (Simply updates, not structural changes) has been asked for, discussed promised etc, but no luck so far, despite promises and the general acknowledgement that such a release is mandatory due to the HUGE amount of updates upstream. (see lists and forums)
So what's the deal here? Open or not? Stop using Google stuff, for it it did not bring any progress. Use the lists as it has been done for the last decade or so.
This board brings us no where, and please reframe from putting arguments out there that you are 'working on stuff'. You try to take responsibility, but as it stands now, I do not back you (Koozali) up on your efforts.
The board has created a closed eco-system for themselves without any mandate. The previous poll was a very poor attempt to protect and harbour, for it was not a valid poll by any standard. It was 'sneaked' in and a HUGE violation of privacy. On that violation of (International)laws, the Koozali team chose to not answer.
Maybe we should kindly ask Daniel and Filippo to work together to the benefit of us all. I then will start pitch in my efforts again.
To all that have an SME Server 'hart', this is not the way to go forward. I understand that all are eager to have leadership again, but the self imposed leadership of this 'Koozali' gang is a mess. We need real leadership and professionalism, not ego's. Hence me not being on any leadership team, for I know other can do way better. They simply have to stand up and lead in a professional manner.
As long as SME Server assets (wiki, forums, website, ibiblio master accounts etc) are under control of a one man show (and now under control of ClearOS) SME Server is not open. It's controlled by ego's.
How can I get a copy of it all please for sponsors are in line waiting to sponsor this project properly, just not with the ego's at hand.
I had prepared corporate sponsorship, it was killed by the Koozali 'gang', so I felt it was not in the best interest of the SME Server community to continue this effort with the 'Koozali' persons leading this to no where. Real leadership would lead to real sponsorship., so I did not want to waist my/others time on this anymore.
guest
-
HF, I'm talking for myself but, sincerely, you should ask for psychological support.
you have no reason to believe and talk in such way, no one.
really, take a deep breath and think about taking a long vacation, far from here, from work..
you suffer of paranoid personality disorder.
there's no way to talk with you, there is no way to have a constructive dialogue with you
ALL, I repeat, IMO
-
HF, I'm talking for myself but, sincerely, you should ask for psychological support.
you have no reason to believe and talk in such way, no one.
really, take a deep breath and think about taking a long vacation, far from here, from work..
you suffer of paranoid personality disorder.
there's no way to talk with you, there is no way to have a constructive dialogue with you
ALL, I repeat, IMO
Very unprofessional Stefano. And you did not respond to any of the topics I mentioned. Whilst I try to discuss SME Server you personally attack me?
ps. You are a board member at all times, you can not excuse yourself from that role at will.
-
So it seems that if one provides comments or does not agree with the Koozali 'gang' way of doing things, you are are immediately recognised as person with a mental disorder by the Koozali 'gang'?
-
ps. It seems that a lot of board discussion is going on off-list and private, despite the promises and referrals to the purpose and openness of the board list.
I know for a fact that there is off list/forum discussion going on. Discussion isn't happening here (the forums), the public mailing lists, or the board mailing list (open for viewing). I've not been party to these discussions but have been the subject of them. I feel very offended at the stuff that has been brought to my attention that has been said and feel that if John and the board have issues it should be brought to light. Quit hiding behind your private communications and and start discussing things in public like you promised to do.
Neither did the board comment on a final statement of the move/sell of 'SME Server private equipment' to other entities. That discussion was cut off by the board by means of advisors and/or assistants locking discussions. How's that for openness???
Let me put this topic to bed. The equipment that is being sold to ClearCenter is owned by ME (and ONLY ME). It isn't SME's equipment. It isn't contribs equipment. Nobody but me had, has, or will have any say in what is happening with it but me. Once it is fully paid for by ClearCenter then they will have the right to do with it what they want. I have had and always will have the best interest of contribs in mind. And if the time comes that contribs can't be hosted on the equipment it is currently being hosted on, then it will be moved to other equipment. I didn't need to ask permission from anyone. I didn't even really need to give notice that I was moving it to a new datacenter. As long as contribs continues to run, function, and say up the community should care. The fact that RequestedDeletion and the board have made this a huge issue is beyond me.
A SME Server version 8.1 (Simply updates, not structural changes) has been asked for, discussed promised etc, but no luck so far, despite promises and the general acknowledgement that such a release is mandatory due to the HUGE amount of updates upstream. (see lists and forums)
If you want a new ISO the get out and build it. All the tools are there as are all the scripts. Instead of sitting there complaining that things are getting done, step up and do something. Nobody is stopping you. If you put together a good ISO that is of quality then we can copy it into the right location and push it to the mirrors.
As long as SME Server assets (wiki, forums, website, ibiblio master accounts etc) are under control of a one man show (and now under control of ClearOS) SME Server is not open. It's controlled by ego's.
How can I get a copy of it all please for sponsors are in line waiting to sponsor this project properly, just not with the ego's at hand.
Nothing is under the control of ClearOS (or ClearCenter). It is no different then if we were running on a VM at rackspace. Would you be raising issues about rackspace taking over contribs? No! The equipment is at ClearCenter's datacenter and the underlying hardware is being sold to ClearCenter. The VMs are under my control (and the admin team I have hand picked to back me up). Nobody at ClearCenter is going to do anything that will harm contribs or cause liability for them. Please stop the witch hunt.
It is your ego that keeps getting in the way here. When I was first handed the reigns to contribs many years ago you had your eco bruised and tried to get a full copy of things then. You are now trying to do the same thing again. Truth is I'm the steward of things at contribs. I will not hand over the community intellectual property to anyone. I will maintain it and when the time comes for me to step down I will hand it over to a responsible authority that will continue to take care of contribs as I have over the years.
The "vote" that took place was for me to hand control over to koozali. I agree that it was very quick and have a pitiful turnout. I think if this was a major issue either for or against that we would have had a lot more voices. As it is I think the community doesn't really seem to care that much about who controls things. Just that they work and are up.
If and when koozali gets their domain and website setup and are ready to handle a dump of the content of the database I will help them transition the data to their new servers. Until such time I will continue to run contribs as I have in the past and keep things running.
I have seen nothing from you RequestedDeletion that indicates that you would be a good steward of the assets of the community. I will not oblige your request for the information.
-
I know for a fact that there is off list/forum discussion going on. Discussion isn't happening here (the forums), the public mailing lists, or the board mailing list (open for viewing). I've not been party to these discussions but have been the subject of them. I feel very offended at the stuff that has been brought to my attention that has been said and feel that if John and the board have issues it should be brought to light. Quit hiding behind your private communications and and start discussing things in public like you promised to do.
Interesting and at the same same time a very disturbing 'board' development. Please remember, this self chosen board still has to prove itself, and so far did not in any way. No updates on SME Server, no news, no progress, no openess, no roadmap that came true and especially no progress at all.
So what was the benefit to this community of this board again please, except from stating there is a self appointed board?
guest
-
If you want a new ISO the get out and build it. All the tools are there as are all the scripts. Instead of sitting there complaining that things are getting done, step up and do something. Nobody is stopping you. If you put together a good ISO that is of quality then we can copy it into the right location and push it to the mirrors.
I can't and I won't. I contribute by other means. But I do regret the fact that even 'board' members and others have to 'beg' for an updated ISO. I'm disturbed by the fact that the 'SME Server hardware and setup' is so highly appreciated and yet, nothing can be done unless an 'external' individual pitches in. It was advertised that the SME Server 'development eco systems' costs thousands of dollars a months and was top notch due to the the very advanced building scripts.
As it turns out, this 'SME Server building equipment' (thousands of dollars o month) was not SME Server only and the hardware was used for many purposes (read ClearOS) and other projects. So calling for help and asking for donations for SME Server was under false circumstances.
SME SERVER CAN BE BUILD AND MAINTAINED ON A *486 DESKTOP acting as a server for all maintaining services. A 150Mbit connection goes for about 25 dollars in Europe. So what's the deal here???
Any other choice was based on dictatorship, no control, luxury and other processing power needed for other projects.
guest
-
Nothing is under the control of ClearOS (or ClearCenter). It is no different then if we were running on a VM at rackspace. Would you be raising issues about rackspace taking over contribs? No! The equipment is at ClearCenter's datacenter and the underlying hardware is being sold to ClearCenter. The VMs are under my control (and the admin team I have hand picked to back me up). Nobody at ClearCenter is going to do anything that will harm contribs or cause liability for them. Please stop the witch hunt.
Correct, according to publicly available record Greg is still in control.
http://www.who.is/whois/contribs.org
A move from domains (IP's) can only happen with his (legal) corporation. Funny how Koozali has no control what so ever.
What a mess.....
Koozali
Greg
Mitel
Shad
John
Board
Contribs.org
No wonder (potential) interested parties run away from SME Server as hard as they can.
guest
-
I have seen nothing from you RequestedDeletion that indicates that you would be a good steward of the assets of the community. I will not oblige your request for the information.
You must be overlooking the fact that I was not asking you as a individual. But it seems that you have the 'power' to overrule anybody. Even the 'self appointed board'.
Stefano did the same and worse, you do the same, John is silent, Greg is silent.
So 4000 soles are demanding professional leadership and this is your response?
guest
-
As it turns out, this 'SME Server building equipment' (thousands of dollars o month) was not SME Server only and the hardware was used for many purposes (read ClearOS) and other projects. So calling for help and asking for donations for SME Server was under false circumstances.
Here you go again making statements that are totally false. If SME server were to go somewhere else and host exactly what is currently being hosted then it would cost close to US$4k/month. IF they were to buy and maintain the exact same hardware that it is running on with a 3-5 year lifecycle it would cost close to US$3k/month. Current donations don't even cover 1/10 of this cost.
I haven't been asking for any more than that cost of covering my Internet and Electricity bills. Most months I don't even receive this.
As it is/was my computer equipment, and it had plenty of excess room to do other things, I have hosted many other projects to help cover my costs. Please show me where there is anything wrong with that! It doesn't matter what else was on the equipment.
SME SERVER CAN BE BUILD AND MAINTAINED ON A *486 DESKTOP acting as a server for all maintaining services. A 150Mbit connection goes for about 25 dollars in Europe. So what's the deal here???
I would sure love to see you try this. You are living in the past. SME 8 won't even run on a i486. There is no way to build the 64-bit version of packages on a i486 either. You might be able to build the i386 packages on it if you are lucky, but I doubt it. I know that SME 9 won't run or build on a i486 as all packages are either i686 or x86_64.
RequestedDeletion, you really have no idea what it takes to develop, maintain, produce, and push SME server. Feel free to try and setup something up and maintain it yourself. Then come back and make comments. Right now you just look foolish stating things that you don't know anything about.
-
You must be overlooking the fact that I was not asking you as a individual. But it seems that you So 4000 soles are demanding professional leadership and this is your response?
Please show me the petition of 4000 names demanding this leadership. I'll I'm seeing is one individual throwing a tantrum because he can't get his way.
-
RequestedDeletion
So what was the benefit to this community of this board again please, except from stating there is a self appointed board?
Hsing, you really need to mellow your attitude, or to use a vernacular expression, "get off your high horse".
People are trying to do things & you continue to derride them.
What has happened & the processes involved have been adequately explained for my & many others liking, based on various comments read.
You use the phrase "self appointed" as if there was something wrong with it.
We are all self appointed as I see it.
We all voluntarily make our personal efforts for the continuance & betterment of sme server.
No one here gets paid a salary to my knowledge.
No one is being forced to do work for sme server.
We could all walk away anytime & use some other distro if we really wanted to or had to.
You chose to self appoint yourself to the board & then chose to resign.
If people did not self appoint themselves then nothing would start, nothing would happen, there would be no sme server.
Further on from that though, the acceptance of the board by this community was voted upon & agreed by those who made the effort to vote.
No one forced these people to vote, they took that self appointed action to do so.
Really Hsing, if you want to see change, then self appoint yourself to do something & get in & assist (despite the comment in your most recent post that you do not want to do certain technical things).
You do not have to like a certain way people are doing things, but you do have to co-operate with those who are also involved.
This co-operation needs to at least be a civil & workable level of social interaction & communication, & generally speaking you need to follow or adhere to the consensus agreed upon game plan.
As far as I read (which is publicly available to read), the board are working on various matters.
Not everything happens instantly.
Volunteer your efforts to build the web site for Koozali if you want to see something happen faster than is happening.
Volunteer your efforts to create the sme server 8.1 iso if you want a new release faster than someone else will do it, Shad advises that all the information is available to do so.
Just do it, & everyone will be thankful.
What is your problem with that approach ?
It would be far more productive than all your whingeing words that you have written lately.
As I said though, you do need to have civil communications & make a conscious effort to "get on" with those "in charge" or "in control", as well as "getting on" pleasantly with the rest of us.
-
RequestedDeletion, you really have no idea what it takes to develop, maintain, produce, and push SME server. Feel free to try and setup something up and maintain it yourself. Then come back and make comments. Right now you just look foolish stating things that you don't know anything about.
Shad, please stop your silly defence.
Just hand over the SME Sever content to the community. Keep your silly scripts and other 'magic' and I do not have to prove anything, and let the community prove otherwise. I will back off if you do provide all current content. Heck, I will keep silent for 5 years if you do. You can do many things, but in my opinion
YOU ARE NOT SOCIALLY ABLE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY
What is the real problem here please?
guest
-
RequestedDeletion
Hsing, you really need to mellow your attitude, or to use a vernacular expression, "get off your high horse".
People are trying to do things & you continue to derride them.
What has happened & the processes involved have been adequately explained for my & many others liking, based on various comments read.
An who are you please?
-
What is the real problem here please?
maybe you and your attitude?
-
Please show me the petition of 4000 names demanding this leadership. I'll I'm seeing is one individual throwing a tantrum because he can't get his way.
Oops, you never wondered for who you 'stewarded' the distro?
Shame on you Shad. A real steward and/or leader/maintainer would know what's gong on and would serve a real purpose. But then again you personally know for you personally are the only one that collects the mandatory SME Server feedback notices. Wether it be the 'internet connection test' or the mandatory 'SMOLT" service that reports every single SME install to one of your (Clear OS) private servers. SMOLT is was an 'opt-in' service. You made it 'active by default' without an 'opt-out- option. Completely against international privacy rules.
guest
-
maybe you and your attitude?
Maybe, but in the mean time I did not called anybody retarted or ready for mental care. You did, and despite the opportunity, and as a board member, you never apologised for your attitude.
guest
-
Really Hsing, if you want to see change, then self appoint yourself to do something & get in & assist (despite the comment in your most recent post that you do not want to do certain technical things).
You do not have to like a certain way people are doing things, but you do have to co-operate with those who are also involved.
This co-operation needs to at least be a civil & workable level of social interaction & communication, & generally speaking you need to follow or adhere to the consensus agreed upon game plan.
No can do.
I want to start a separate effort to the benefit of the Open Source community. But as you can read from Shad's response, he will not share anything, for he alone is in full control. Despite the board puppets.
And that puppet board is accepting this by means of complete silence, complete absence and complete lack of vision. Let alone any progress at all.
guest
-
To a Moderator & Forum Administrator
I humbly request RequestedDeletion be banned from these Forums for unacceptable behaviour.
I personally do not want to keep reading his rants. He obviously has some gripes about this project, the people behind it & the decision making process, but to continue his personal attacks on good members of this community is UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR, & as far as I know is not accepted by the general rules under which this community operates.
I have had enough of him, & I am sure many others have also had enough.
-
To a Moderator & Forum Administrator
I humbly request RequestedDeletion be banned from these Forums for unacceptable behaviour.
I personally do not want to keep reading his rants. He obviously has some gripes about this project, the people behind it & the decision making process, but to continue his personal attacks on good members of this community is UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR, & as far as I know is not accepted by the general rules under which this community operates.
I have had enough of him, & I am sure many others have also had enough.
Really? what is my unacceptable behaviour on these forums please?
I may speak my mind and I may discuss topics. Unlike Stefano, I did not call anybody names. Could it be you (Greg = Janet) are trying to get me of the forums/lists to your own benefit and try to put me in a bad position??
Easy talk if only Shad or Chris can moderate. Your personal pals. But it looks nice if you try to look like an innocent forum member. Oh deer. (But many know who Janet is, so stop the b**sh**)
guest
-
I humbly request
I humbly request you stay out of this unless you tell me/us your real name. You were never part of the board, the preps or the follow up. So please keep quiet. You are welcome to read tho, just like everybody else.
guest
-
HF, please desist from further inflamatory comments, you had your say.
OK?
chris
-
RequestedDeletion
I want to start a separate effort to the benefit of the Open Source community.
Then please go away & do so.
No one here is stopping you.
Virtually all content is publicly available.
Make the effort to copy it if you really feel that strongly about it & no one will agree to hand you a copy.
But please just stop your unproductive & annoying rants here in these forums.
I & I'm sure the majority of community members just want to read about positive & uplifting efforts that are productive to this community & sme server here in these forums.
Please go away & air your petty grievances somewhere else.
-
HF, please desist from further inflamatory comments, you had your say.
OK?
chris
With all due respect and for you, yes Chris, I will.
-
Maybe, but in the mean time I did not called anybody retarted or ready for mental care. You did, and despite the opportunity, and as a board member, you never apologised for your attitude.
guest
HF, please re-read my post:
- I never thought you are retarded.. read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder
- I was talking for myself.. not in name of the board.. only me.. and no, I will not apologize.. you really need to get a life
-
With all due respect and for you, yes Chris, I will.
Thank you HF.
-
RequestedDeletion
Could it be you (Greg = Janet) are trying to get me of the forums/lists to your own benefit and try to put me in a bad position??
That is an entirely false conclusion & accusation. I am a totally seperate person from Greg or anyone else on the board or in control of contribs.org etc.
I am a long standing end user & contributor to the sme community.
You yourself have put yourself in a bad position & are now trying to make false claims that certain individuals are ganging up on you. Shame on you !
-
HF,
What is the real problem here please?
I’d like to ask you this…What is your “real” problem here? Don’t say it is about sharing content because unfortunately I’ve “known you” on the forums for a number of years (10+) and you have always made yourself look silly the way you conduct yourself on these forums and mailing lists.
Easy talk if only Shad or Chris can moderate. Your personal pals.
Just for your information I too can moderate forums.
As Janet has mentioned to you virtually all content is publicly available.
I can't and I won't. I contribute by other means. But I do regret the fact that even 'board' members and others have to 'beg' for an updated ISO. I'm disturbed by the fact that the 'SME Server hardware and setup' is so highly appreciated and yet, nothing can be done unless an 'external' individual pitches in. It was advertised that the SME Server 'development eco systems' costs thousands of dollars a months and was top notch due to the the very advanced building scripts.
I have seen no “begging” as you put it but I can understand if there are delays because as you know all work is unpaid and done in one’s free time and given we’ve just had summer holidays I’d expect little work as the kids will be off schools and parents enjoying timeout.
It really does also go to show how little you know as there is no “external” individual but in fact a small but dedicated group of individuals as Shad mentioned.
Shame on you Shad. A real steward and/or leader/maintainer would know what's gong on and would serve a real purpose. But then again you personally know for you personally are the only one that collects the mandatory SME Server feedback notices. Wether it be the 'internet connection test' or the mandatory 'SMOLT" service that reports every single SME install to one of your (Clear OS) private servers. SMOLT is was an 'opt-in' service. You made it 'active by default' without an 'opt-out- option. Completely against international privacy rules.
Please take a moment to read this post and in particular Pfloor response from back in 2007
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php?topic=37880.0
Also, have a read of this bug:
http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868
You can see that Fedora had smolt service online so why not bring it to SME which we (the community decided we wanted) and I very much doubt it broke any privacy rules as smolt never collected any personal data/information.
One thing I do know from reading your various threads HF is you do need to publicly apologize to Shad because for as long as I have “known” you on these forums I have Shad and just like Gordon, Mitel/Charlie, e-smith; Shad has/is been a great steward and deserves more respect than you have shown.
Thanks.