Topic: New Contribs

[RonM]

mbachmann - Yes, if you would... anything announced anywhere on contribs, that you see. Thanks very much!

Ian did this early on, and I find it so helpful for discussion I'd like to repeat it here:

Home page - http://no.longer.valid/news/
Doc page - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/
Dev page - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?Development
Contribs page - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?ContribsPage
How To Classification (HTC) page - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=How-to%20Classification
Topic page (example)- Administration - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Administration
Topic Page (example)- - Antivirus - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Anti%20Virus
Meta Data page (example)- - Administration - LDAP Clients - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=LDAP%20contacts
Meta Data page (example)- - Antivirus - Antivirus Scanning for SME 6.0 - Clam Antivirus and Amavis-ng - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Antivirus%20Scanning%20for%20SME%206.0%20-%20Clam%20Antivirus%20and%20Amavis-ng

etc.
So a Topic page is any page linked directly from the HTC page, and a metadata page is any page linked to from any of the Topic pages.

It sounds like you're suggesting to :
A. Remove all metadata pages
and
B. Replace the links to the metadata pages from the Topic pages with the table for that how to

is that right?

I could see where it might be a little easier to maintain these... but suppose it was up to date: how would we be better off?

I think it's a good service to have a page that lists the last month's worth of contribs - I've used the existing one for exactly that purpose

[gregswallow]

It sounds like you're suggesting to :
A. Remove all metadata pages
and
B. Replace the links to the metadata pages from the Topic pages with the table for that how to

is that right?

I could see where it might be a little easier to maintain these... but suppose it was up to date: how would we be better off?

That's basically what I'm suggesting.  But when (you/I) say remove - I mean take all the info from the page and put it into the table.  I think the easier to maintain part is important.  I know you and others have spent counless hours on these pages, and I totally respect that.  I think if I add a 'category' and 'last updated' row my table covers all the info found on a metadata page in a much simpler way.

I think it's a good service to have a page that lists the last month's worth of contribs - I've used the existing one for exactly that purpose

Me too - I look at the current month for whats new.  If we format those announcements in tables then the previous months tables can just be copied and pasted into the howto classification pages - much simpler than making a link and a metadata page I think.

Question for anyone - is it possible to have a link on a wiki page that opens up a new window - ie. target="_blank"

[RonM]

Hey Greg - there's no provision to name the pages when you save them, so you have to name them when you create them.

I tend to use something like :
[linkname | pagename or full URL]

but InterCaps will work too.

[gregswallow]

Hey Greg - there's no provision to name the pages when you save them, so you have to name them when you create them.

I tend to use something like :
[linkname | pagename or full URL]

but InterCaps will work too.

Do you mean name the links in the table?  I guess if you wanted to 'pretty up'/shorten the link to something generic you could change the output page's formulas (for the ones that are links) like this:

Code: [Select]

=IF(Contribs!H2>=1,CONCATENATE(" ",Contribs!H2),"")
to something like this:

Code: [Select]

=IF(Contribs!H2>=1,CONCATENATE(" [Devinfo Post | ",Contribs!H2,"]"),"")

Is that what you mean?  It would look neater that way I guess.

[gregswallow]

Meta Data page (example)- - Administration - LDAP Clients - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=LDAP%20contacts

Actually I will take back my idea to scrap all the meta data pages - I see now that some are more elaborate than others.  While one like - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Install%20PHP%20Accelerator - could be put in a table - the one above contains the howto/instructions.  

I still like the idea of having a table on the howto classification page though - it seems like an easy way to do it as a transition from the new dev. announcement page.  Either way, I am very willing to help out in whatever way you think is best.  

If you like the table idea but want it formatted differently maybe put up an example of one and I can make the changes in the excel sheet to match it.  I made another version that outputs like this: http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=test2 -and I put up the changed excel file here: http://www.skynetonline.ca/images/contribs.zip

[RonM]

Sorry Greg - I should have been more clear. I was trying to answer your question

Question for anyone - is it possible to have a link on a wiki page that opens up a new window - ie. target="_blank"

AFAIK, any word that is a WikiName (with the intercaps) or name in [brackets] will create a "blank" page once the question mark is clicked on, and the page is saved in the edit window. But all the dbase entries for the page don't actually "exist" until it is saved. You could definitely assemble pieces in excel that, when pasted into a wikipage, would give you the question mark, like concatenate "[", A2, and "]". But no page dbase entries would be made until the ? was clicked.

Was that your question? Or am I just being dense?:)

[RonM]

I think there's room horizontally to add more info on the HTC page. Perhaps a link to or the NewdevAnnounce: last 30 days table might also fit on there somewhere. I'm personally mostly interested in anything that makes contribs easier to find on the HTC page - I dunno, Top 10, most recent, bigger font, different organization (instead of alphabetical), etc. This page is where I really wish phpwiki had more capability; i.e. treeview, show/hide... But the page is already way too big.

What do you think of using your tables idea as a "quick update" step? Every so often, tableize the Newdev 30, paste each piece on a wiki page and link it in to the appropriate Topic page(s). That way they'd at least be accessible there, and we could later use Ian's php page to generate the howto.

Downside is we'd need another page w/list of all pages to keep track of what meta page was what. Been thinking we need something like that anyway, though.

[gregswallow]

I meant something similar to a html link that pops up a new window...
eg. <a href="http://blah.com" target="_blank">blah.com</a>
...but I did a bit of reading and I don't think its possible for security reasons.

Did you like the 2nd version of the tables better - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=test2 - Anything you would change/add?

I think I'll gather up more contribs/links in the excel sheet for starters - Were you in agreement to scrap the Web Links section?  Do you think we could get an admin to somehow output or share the contents of the web links database? - http://no.longer.valid/mylinks/ - instead of copying and pasting...

[wellsi]

Were you in agreement to scrap the Web Links section?

For me yes.

Do you think we could get an admin to somehow output or share the contents of the web links database? - http://no.longer.valid/mylinks/ - instead of copying and pasting...

A good idea.

Most of the information has already been put into the HTC, just the recent ones to add. There are also a huge number of links on the HTC that are not in web-links.

Did you like the 2nd version of the tables better

One issue to raise is that Topic Pages such as Anti%20Virus are already big enough - I think that we don't want to make the page any bigger.

Looking at test2 (and the meta-data page) do we really need all that information? In terms of value for the end-user, maintenance and space that it takes  up.

I think that there are some good ideas being made - now to decide which ones to take.

[gregswallow]

Looking at test2 (and the meta-data page) do we really need all that information? In terms of value for the end-user, maintenance and space that it takes  up.

That's a good point - Could combine category and title into one line - eg. '(VoIP) Asterisk', remove the dates (as by the links that should be obvious) and comments (as they should go in the forums).  Really even the contributors name(s) could be left off the table too, as it could be found in one of the links, and the status row isn't really needed - that cuts it down to 4 rows from 10. eg. - http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=test3

[RonM]

gregswallow wrote:
Were you in agreement to scrap the Web Links section?
wellsi wrote:
For me yes.

For me as well. Though it means the community will depend on the HTC for contribs. It will have to be kept up to date.

gregswallow wrote:
Do you think we could get an admin to somehow output or share the contents of the web links database? - http://no.longer.valid/mylinks/ - instead of copying and pasting...

wellsi wrote:
A good idea.

Most of the information has already been put into the HTC, just the recent ones to add. There are also a huge number of links on the HTC that are not in web-links.

Would be handy, though we don't need to remove weblinks, just the links to it.

gregswallow wrote:
Did you like the 2nd version of the tables better?

The small ones do look a lot cleaner on the page. I made a test-contribs page using small tables, seems to work ok. Feedback?

http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Contribs-temp

[wellsi]

I like that page
However I think that the Browse link is to subtle when compared to the rest of the page - I think most people would miss it.

What is the relationship between this page and the NewAnnounements page?
* They could both exist
* This could replace that page with a link to 'previous months' at the end which shows the month by month results.
* Who does what.

Would this new mini-table be adopted on the Topic Pages in HTC? i.e. replace the current one-liners?

What should the links link to? Maybe initially whatever is available but then include a TopicPage link - or is that always necessary?

The assumption is that the meta-data pages are kept -  what changes should be made (if any)

Does the feedback go into the Experienced Forum or are there other suggestions?

For the main HTC I was thinking of three columns, to improve the use of screen space - any ideas?

[gregswallow]

http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php?pagename=Contribs-temp

To minimize the work for Wiki moderators (such as yourself) I would keep the Contribs Page more of a static page with bold links to the Howto Classification Section, New Dev announcements, maybe a 'how to announce your contrib' page, and the contribs.org/contribs directory - If you put links to Individual contribs/updates like that then you are the only one that can edit it, and you would pretty much have to on a monthly basis.

[RonM]

Actually wellsi and other folks could edit it, and if you wanted you could get access to do it too (email to staffATcontribs.org). It's a valid point, however, access _would_ be more restricted.

I would want to clean it up and rework it so content was more seperate from markup, anyway. I was thinking the excel spreadsheet to table idea could help, or Ian's php

The question for me is whether we want to try to make the pages more attractive and informational, and if so, how?

It's difficult to do in just the wiki, but maybe that's the best solution anyway. :-)

[gregswallow]

The wiki does suck in terms of lack of layout/columns, etc - It is hard to get used to it in those ways if you are used to html.  Use HTML on the main pages by all means, but those pages should not have content that has to be updated monthly IMO.

I think its better to have a slightly uglier page and let 1000+ people be editors when they have the time, rather than a have a few feel obligated to be editors on a regular basis - I think the wiki works really well for the purposes of this site, and we should try to make it less intimidating to make changes to a page.