Topic: A Proposal For An Organizational Structure For Our Community

[cranky]

It is good to see that we are going to try to make a fresh start (again).  While not being personally involved in the recent dissention, it was disheartening to see our community splinter and possibly fork.  Perhaps with our new stewards, we will see our community develop:
- a roadmap for the next few minor (and/or major releases) with a tentative timeline
- clear procedures for deciding what will be included in the releases
- clear procedures for how we resolve conflicts amicably
- some sort of rudimentary, minimal organizational structure to update the roadmap, communicate news and issues to the community, and establish some order.

I know there are some that abhor structure.  Many would say 'just jump in and do it' when someone in the forums asks why something hasn't been done.  The fact is that there are many lurkers in the community that would like to contribute, but don't know what is needed, who decides what, and/or where we are going.  The end result with this situation is that they contribute nothing as they don't want their effort wasted if they guess wrong and contribute code, content, or documentation that ends up not being in the next release.  I'm not talking about work done outside of the base release (such as contributions, how-to's, etc.).  That work is always welcome and appreciated.  But there are also those that want to see the base release updated, documented, etc. that feel they are not able to contribute to that effort as they don't know what the plans are.  I'm not referring to the SW engineers in the group - they can checkout something from CVS, read it and change or document it.  I'm referring to the others in the group that are not SW engineers that would still like to contribute).  

We all GREATLY appreciate those that have took it upon themselves to issue the next release (and are working on future releases, contributions).  But in a way it is sad that they did this out of frustration(?) rather than as part of a larger group effort.  Our collective efforts are stronger if we all move in the same direction, right?

With this in mind, I offer the following proposal for a stripped down organizational structure and constitution.  You can find it here http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Proposed%20Organization

I have made a second copy on the wiki for community input/changes.  You can find it here:
http://no.longer.valid/phpwiki/index.php/Proposed%20Organization%20Scratchpad
Make your changes on this copy!  The idea is to freeze the first copy of the document in stages (like a 0.X alpha release) so that the community can reflect on and vote(?) for each revision while the second copy can continue being updated.  In this manner, maybe we can work through this process and organize!

I've tried to address issues such as corporate stewards, how the community can influence future development, election procedures, terms of office, etc.

The proposed Debian structure is nice, but IMHO, I think it's too large for our group at this point.

If I've stepped out of line here with this proposal, skip the flames - just ignore it and submit your own ideas.  This was my way of 'just doing it' (see above).  Hopefully this will lead and/or spur the growth of our community (even if what we adopt is nothing like this proposal).

[cranky]

just trying to keep this in view for a while...

[electroman00]

Frank Barone "Holly Crap"

Looks good so far, haven't total digested it yet.

Will contribs.org be moving again to another server
or has that aready been done transparently?

Also is there a list of the current leadership & titles somewhere?

Have a good day...

[wellsi]

The proposed Debian structure is nice, but IMHO, I think it's too large for our group at this point.

Even this is quite large - I don't know if there will be enough people to support it.

Having said that I see this as a good thing - something more is needed comared to the current situation.

[RonM]

Even this is quite large - I don't know if there will be enough people to support it.

I think it's best to have a lot of roles available for volunteers, but only a few that are absolutely required.

Thanks for the work!

RonM[/quote]

[cranky]

The proposed Debian structure is nice, but IMHO, I think it's too large for our group at this point.

Even this is quite large - I don't know if there will be enough people to support it.

Having said that I see this as a good thing - something more is needed comared to the current situation.

Hi Wellsi!
  This may look large at first glance, but only three  people need to be elected.  The rest are volunteer slots.  The three group leaders would nominate people / delegate tasks to people based on their talents and what they volunteer for.  By looking at the work thats been done already (ex. - in the wiki and by the developers), it appears that many of the current volunteers would slip right into some of these slots now.  The difference is that we would have a better handle on who's doing what and who we should contact!  Much of this proposal attempts to keep the existing working relationships between volunteers the same (relationships that I inferred - I'm not 100% sure).  It simply tries to formalize things a bit to reign in some of the perceived confusion.

Frank Barone "Holly Crap"

Looks good so far, haven't total digested it yet.

Will contribs.org be moving again to another server
or has that aready been done transparently?

Also is there a list of the current leadership & titles somewhere?

Have a good day...

Hi Electroman00
Q1) I've been trying to get permission to upload some graphics (process flow diagrams, organization charts, etc.) that would make this document easier to digest.  I have not succeeded yet (see my wiki help post).
Q2) I'm not the one to ask
Q3) That's what the proposal aims to put in place.

[garret]

I think this is good mostly. The only issues I have are with trying to get the Core developers under the "Contribs" system too quickly. I think we need to concentrate on the community, contribs and docs first, then if it seems like a good idea, bringing core dev in also.

I like the idea of elections and also the checks and balances.

I think we need to get the entire contribs system to something like gforge or savane, which should also be able to handle the rest of our needs IMO.

Garret

[Black]

Glad to see some life getting back into this great distro! I would help out in anyway I can   I wouldn't mind sinking my teeth into those howto's and getting some organized format dealing ONLY with SME in a easy to read/understand format.

[girkers]

I thought this was going somewhere too, but the momental has seemed to stop.  At the start of last month it was all yep lets get going and lots of chatter etc.  But now, where has everyone gone.

[electroman00]

Appears as if the furture is still up in the air.

No news at all lately, doesn't appear to be good.

[bkrosco]

Anyone have any more info as to what is going on? I'd hate to see things start slowing down around here again.

Maybe everyone is just working really hard on SME and haven't had a chance to let everyone know what they're up to.  

[cydonia]

I've just about given up on SME's future to be honest.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but in general, I don't believe a community project on the scale of Contribs/SME can work.

There is no centralised direction, I think if SME were to go semi-proprietory, with good financial backing by an existing software company, then there exists potential.

I still love the basic features of SME like templating etc, it would be great to be able to build a custom Nix box based on an SME core.

[Skydiver]

Does not look good. I have posted issues and in some cases no one is about to help or im on ignore for being out spoken on the roffdoggs list.

CharlieBrady only responds to my posts to tell me to post it somewhere else, no assistance in fixing anything.

No emails coming from the Roffdogs List about the future of SME.

Very little seems to be happening with update scripts for 7.0 .

To be honest i have been investing a great deal of time looking for something else to replace SME.  

Anyone with info about Linux Server Platforms please pass the info on. Has to be something out there.

Or an update on whats happening with SME and the future would be good.

[Black]

can someone fork this?

[cydonia]

I reckon just ground up based on Fedora or even SuSe is the way to go.  As Novel always emphasize, its about support as well as the product...

Does not look good. I have posted issues and in some cases no one is about to help or im on ignore for being out spoken on the roffdoggs list.

CharlieBrady only responds to my posts to tell me to post it somewhere else, no assistance in fixing anything.

No emails coming from the Roffdogs List about the future of SME.

Very little seems to be happening with update scripts for 7.0 .

To be honest i have been investing a great deal of time looking for something else to replace SME.  

Anyone with info about Linux Server Platforms please pass the info on. Has to be something out there.

Or an update on whats happening with SME and the future would be good.

[wellsi]

The 6th Alpha for SME 7.0 hit the mirrors at the weekend so there is a lot of development going on.

At the moment some co-ordination and willing volunteers would help a lot. There have been a lot of people saying that they are willing to help - but then very little sign of actual work. This may be because 100s of people are being busy or may be because everyone is waiting for someone to lead them.

Over the last few weeks there has been an off-and-on discussion about maintenance on the ruffdogs list - but no-one has stepped up and volunteered to take care of this. Also only a handful of people have joined the discussion at all.

It would be a pity if SME Server died of apathy - but  it is hard to see the community achieving much at the moment.

So if you want to see SME Server continue, why not sign up and help out: http://listserv.ruffdogs.com

(See the news item regarding this list http://no.longer.valid/news/article.php?storyid=48)

I had also started plans to move my server to a new distro, but the work on SME7 and the new surge of interest in the community a while back meant that I put a lot more effort into SME instead.

[bkrosco]

I agree that the work on SME7 is promising. Plus, I'm just finding anything close to what SME offers. It sure beats doing things from scratch.

[treyh]

I agree that the work on SME7 is promising. Plus, I'm just finding anything close to what SME offers. It sure beats doing things from scratch.

I agree with the above quote. I have found nothing else that even begins to compare with SME 6.

Yes, I could build a linux server from scratch and not sleep for several weeks lol.

SME allows users to install, configure, and put in place a fully functional email, web, and vpn server in a matter of minutes. Which important in the line of work I do. Also plugs/contribs take a matter of minutes to install.

For now, SME just can't be beat. I will be very unhappy if this project dies.

[nickbrown]

First of all, Hi! I’m Nick, a network admin who also manages a few websites and maintains company Network Infrastructures in my spare time.

I have used SME for several years, and this is the first time I have made a post, Simply to show my support for the project and let people who are new to SME know that, While the structure of SME is a little unstable at the moment, it is still by far one of the most user friendly and powerful Linux builds.

The proposed structure, I believe will be a positive change for the SME community and look forward to seeing it take off. I also endeavour to assist the future movement of the SME community, both by offering assistance with the use of the product but also assistance from a business point of view if relevant.

Thankyou to the numerous other supporters who help make this project possible.

Nick Brown  
IntiCon.net

[simnux]

While the proposed organization is a positive step, I find it has one major flaw. It offers too much product control to developers.

Developer control of a product can be a positive thing when a product is immature and needs to expand its feature set rapidly. As a product matures, however, developers are notoriously bad at managing changes outside of their own development process. They tend to get pet projects that require lots of care and feeding, or they decide an otherwise worthwhile feature is not going to happen on the basis of some obscure technical nuance or personal preference, or conversely they implement features for their gee-whiz factor rather than their general applicability.

I'd prefer to see this three person committee formed from persons who are not directly involved in the work. For example, technical needs can be addressed by a competent developer, but that developer should not be an SME Server developer. Likewise, communications can be overseen by an experienced writer or webmaster, but that person should not be doing the actual work. And so forth. This would afford the community a certain level of abstraction, which would be a good thing in translating between the technical desires and community desires of the product.

[wallyrp]

Good Morning,

Campaign Ad: The proposed organizational structure is a great base for better things to come. Make sure your vote is counted! Stand up with the proud and how many?  

I would agree with the above posting regarding developers in a general way. My angle on this is based upon my years of experience in the school industry dealing with teachers. Teachers teach everyday and use technology to assist them. Being a computer technician sometimes conflicts with their abilities to use that technology. Over the past two years, I've had the chance to meet a number of teachers that are somewhat tech savvy. They have "enlightened" me as to their duties and responsibilities. This type of liason between the two worlds has assisted me in providing better service while still being able to implement things behind the scenes that bolster security and the likes.

Basically, the above rambling means that I would like to see a committee or some kind of panel that is made up of a mixture of folks. Example: Redneck, City Slicker, College Educated - Regular user, High-end support user, Brainy Programmer. This would provide an all angle approach that would hopefully provide balance to SME.

This and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee in most places.

[cranky]

Hi to all that are following this thread.

As you've probably seen in the news postings, a small group of people are working on refining the draft constitution that was posted some time ago.  This group is a cross-section of the members here and hopefully the finished document will be balanced and workable.

To those of you that are still referring to the first draft (the link to which appears in the first post in this thread), I would refer you now to the segments of that document that have been reworked by our group and published.  The links to these new segments are found in the news postings.  They replace the corresponding segments in the original draft and should be used as the basis for any future discussions.

Ron has done a good job (as always) of keeping the community posted on our developments and we hope to meet the timetable as discussed in the news.

So to those that have been lamenting the passing of SME server in the earlier posts - hang in there.  Between the work on the new releases (6.5 & 7.0) that is underway and the fact that we are organizing, IMO this could be an exciting year for SME fans and users!