Topic: How to install an unsupported package?

[raem]

raid517

I re-read all the posts in this thread, and the only agressive, defensive & hostile posts are yours !

Every other poster gave you good common sense matter of fact advice in a polite fashion, coming from a good understanding of sme & how it works, and advising you of problems you WILL have using webmin with sme.

There were no posts that said webmin is no good or that system A is better than system B, or that accused you of attacking anyone or suggesting you needed to apologize or even anything like that !

They all said webmin & sme server are not compatible with each other and you are therefore not advised to use webmin.
They even enquired of you for further specific information re why you thought webmin was so good & what features particularly were missing from sme that webmin had, that you apparently needed to have.
You were even advised to lodge a bug request for a New Feature Request as that IS the way to get something into sme base code.

The only lack of sensibility I read is yours, in your attacks on other posters.


> To be frank as I get older I have less and less time and much less patience....

Yes that is obvious.


>... for the frequently extremely misplaced puritanical and also often highly counterproductive attitude of many Linux users.

The only "attitude" I see in this thread is in your posts.
No one rubbished you or webmin, no one said not to use webmin, we explained why it doesn't work well with sme & advised you not to use it with sme.
After all that's what you were asking about in the first post where you said:
"I know this is going to sound like a horribly n00bish question. But that's possibly because I am a bit of a n00b."
which you further emphasised with
"and here I will show my n00bishness"

Advice was given as if you were a noob, and now you are purporting to be all knowledgable and even blasting us for giving advice you didn't like.

As you said you're getting older, so learn to receive advice in the friendly manner it was given, before you die !

[CharlieBrady]

Why you should feel that such an innocuous comparison was so threatening is genuinely beyond me.

I didn't. You made that up.

To be frank as I get older I have less and less time and much less patience for the frequently extremely misplaced puritanical and also often highly counterproductive attitude of many Linux users.

And I get less and less tolerant of people who complain about free advice.

[raid517]

Yes, it's true, webmin does provide a many, many, more opportunities for you to misconfigure your system.

Sorry but it's the tone of these responses that I find unsettling.

Webmin will NOT screw up your system. It may screw up your SME system and cause serious conflicts - but there are other systems and other platforms where it is a perfectly usable and respectable application. You do seem to make it sound like it is a contest over which package is superior and which is not. The fact is however that they are probably at least equally applicable and equally valuable depending on the platform in use.

webmin also has a bewildering set of features

Again this seems like a very specific and deliberate choice of words. WebMin may have a large number of features - but they are far from being 'bewildering'. Indeed the philosophy behind WebMin is very similar to that of SME - in that it presents a very KISS friendly type interface with several very clearly laid out options.

If you want server-manager to be more like webmin, then you are welcome to try to make it so.

Once more this simply sounds somewhat elitist, first because it seems to imply that I am in someway disparaging or hostile towards SME (I am not) and also because I took careful pains in a previous post to try to point out that I am not a programmer. Indeed I will re-post what I said here for good measure:

However as I work full time in the voluntary sector - am by no means a programmer, have limited time and limited insight into such matters - and am purely attempting to do something that is in this case in many ways outside the normal range of my abilities - which if I am successful may directly help a large number of vulnerable young people in need - any positive contribution towards a hacking effort is likely to be very minimal indeed.

So why would you re-post a comment that if I didn't like it I should fix it on my own when I spent half of my previous posts making the best effort I could to make it clear that I was not saying I didn't like it - and that an ordinary mere mortal non programmer I lacked the skills and ability to 'fix it on my own' in the way that you (have again) suggested? Surely you might be able to see why that might be a little frustrating?

[raid517]

And I get less and less tolerant of people who complain about free advice.

Good advice is probably something along the lines of

It's probably not a good idea to use WebMin as it may cause serious conflicts with a number of existing packages in SME.

Not so good advice is probably along the lines of:

Don't use Webmin with SME because it causes conflicts, is over-complicated and just plumb sucks - and the included software in SME is just WAY times more superior anyway.

It's all about striking a tone dear boy. The first comment is simply factual, reasonable and entirely acceptable. The second is opinion based, somewhat biased and a little loaded. Which I wonder out of these two do you feel your comments were closer to?

[raem]

raid517

Get back on track.
Are you really interested in learning about sme ?
The way you are "talking" here is just alienating yourself in this community, especially when you attack Charlie & others with a false premise.

Take on board the good advice that has been given to you in good faith & stop placing your own value judgements on the written words of posters.
They are all factual statements & have no emotive content (tone as you call it), on which you seem to be placing so much importance.

You are prone to gross exaggeration !

I read all the posters comments yet again and I see nothing of what you claim has been said.

If you are not interested in learning about sme & just want to attack people, then please go away !

[raid517]

I am happy to stay on track. Providing there isn't any more of this pointless comparing and saying that one application is necessarily better than another.

As I said, it just seems as though what I did say was being a little misrepresented.

What I did say was that Webmin has a large number of very useful and very easy to understand and manage facilities. What I did not say was that SME was in any way inferior in this regard. What I did say was that (since I am not a programmer and was simply fantasizing out loud) that it would be neat if SME included a configuration tool that offered the best of both worlds (while again retaining the technically superior approach of SME) - but what I also did not say was that I was by any means whatsoever unappreciative or ungrateful for the very great efforts that the developers have made to date.

I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh, but as I said I didn't quite see the reason why there was a need to repeat something that had already very clearly been said only a short while ago.

The original advice not to install WebMin was both very clear, very friendly and very well reasoned. I took the advice on board and subsequently opted not to do so. The rest as I said was simply an exercise in thinking out loud - and was probably intended to be not much more than this.

Anyway I don't even know what it is were are supposed to be getting heated over here? The question is answered in my eyes. Don't install it. Also there is unlikely to be a combination of WebMin and the SME Web configuration app - because (beyond personally fantasising that there was such an application) as I am not a programmer  and as there is little interest elsewhere in making it happen either, it is literally pointless to continue to discuss it.

[raem]

raid517

> ... pointless comparing and saying that one application is necessarily better than another.

You are STILL exaggerating/making it up. Please quote the exact phrase & poster who said that, as I certainly cannot see that post anywhere in this thread.

[raid517]

Yes, it's true, webmin does provide a many, many, more opportunities for you to misconfigure your system.

Seems like a good example. Why say it when a) it has already been clearly established that it is not a good idea to use webmin with SME and b) when the subsequent discussion was not about actually using it rather than a slight philosophical muse about the possible merits of an application that combined the best aspects of both Webmin and the SME configuration utility into a single package - an application that since it does not and is probably unlikely to exist poses no risk either?

Why issue such a stark warning about something that it has already been clearly explained may prove damaging and also about something else that has no basis in reality anyway?

Not that it matters very much, because I see no clear reason why you would wish to continue the discussion beyond this point anyway?

[raem]