Topic: SME has Competition ?? ClarkeConnect now = ClearOS

[Stefano]

Also maybe look at a newish interface for SME 8??, something "corporate", and I am quite aware that the look doesnt mean anything etc...but we are all humans and we all like "Eye Candy"

you can always work/pay someone to work on css to give server-manager pages a more "corporate" look.. then, of course, you should post it in bugzilla

my 2c

[Stefano]

There is no reason to because that will not change anything, the leadership is so stuck in their ways that nothing will change.

looks like you are convincing yourself.. but you aren't telling anything.. you are not answering to my question

If you don't believe me how things have changed, look at the numbers, before if you look at users online, you would see 100, 200 sometime even 300 users online. And most were actively in participating in beta forum with excitement and anticipation of the new release coming out and a real sense of community. Now you see 30, 40 users online? And most asking questions about current release, not too many are beta testing.

just a curiosity: where do you read the online users number on these pages? because I can't see any number referring to guests/visitors..

so, again (but for the last time), what are talking about?

[Elliott]

I'm guessing s/he is referring to the numbers at the bottom of the forums front page. Like right now is says:

Users Online
36 Guests, 8 Users
Users active in past 15 minutes:
Elliott, Stefano, steve288, SARK devs, RF_Guy, hawk, kevinb, e[nt]e

[Stefano]

thank you..

I swear I've never seen it
I always click on "Show unread posts since last visit." link (it's bookmarked)

thanks again

[cactus]

A bit off topic as it is not on ClearOS, but it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL... talking about some references... I wish we would have them...

From http://www.ebox-technologies.com/services/ :

eBox Success Stories

I know eBox team and their open source project for quite a long time and I do believe eBox has the potential to disrupt the network server market in a similar way as MySQL disrupted the database market.

Mårten Mickos, Former CEO of MySQL

[calisun]

looks like you are convincing yourself.. but you aren't telling anything.. you are not answering to my question

I am not answering your question because this is not the first time I had this discussion on the forums here. And I was told by developers in no uncertain terms that this is how things are, and when I tried to propose alternate way, my comments were deleted.
So there is no sense beating a dead horse, things will never change back to the way they used to be, a thriving community.
I know you want to disagree with me, and you have a right to your opinion, but the numbers don't lie: in the past 100, 200  even 300 users online, now 30-40. In the past it took months to work on beta releases, now years.

And don't get me wrong, I am not talking about developers technical skills, I am sure that they are wonderful programmers. I am just talking about people skills and ability to rally and excite troops.

[kevinb]

A bit off topic as it is not on ClearOS, but it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL... talking about some references... I wish we would have them...

From http://www.ebox-technologies.com/services/ :

Nevermind

[soprom]

Could have been an interesting thread... too bad.

[calisun]

What is hurting SMES right now is that there are no contribs on SME8, SME7 is too far behind with php and mysql, nobody knows when SME8 final will be available.

For those that need OS based on CentOS 5.X, besides ClearOS and eBox, Another program worth looking at:
http://www.blueonyx.it/

[janet]

calisun

...I am not talking about developers technical skills, I am sure that they are wonderful programmers. I am just talking about people skills and ability to rally and excite troops.

One of the key developers of a very small "few person" team, has little/no/minimal involvement with sme now, so as no other person of his stature has really stepped in to take over, the development lead time has suffered.

Do you expect Charlie Brady or Shad Lords or someone else to do it all (for free too), just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything and have it ready and present it to you as a (free) finished ClearOS or eBox or blueonyx or whatever else you can trawl up from the net ?

Charlie has called on more than one occasion for people to test sme8b4 with contribs. Have you ever done that ?

Your attitude is what is poor, and certainly not of "troop rallying quality", spending your time digging up and presenting other possibilities, rather than helping to build, improve and finalise what is already under your nose.

PS Despite no final official release tag, sme8beta4 is well advanced, and as far as I can see has all the functionality of the existing sme7.4 release. It is useable "as is" if you really "must have" a CentOS5.3 based OS now, and I'm sure Charlie has been using it for 2 years now in beta form, debugging as neccessity dictates.
I was using and testing an earlier beta release as long ago as March 2008 and it appeared quite stable even then, and all basic functions were there.
Yes it's been a long wait, but the answer is for more people like yourself to get involved, rather than jumping ship and running the other direction.

[calisun]

... Do you expect Charlie Brady or Shad Lords or someone else to do it all (for free too), just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything and have it ready and present it to you as a (free) finished ClearOS or eBox or blueonyx or whatever else you can trawl up from the net ?

This is very sad, this is exactly why I did not want to discuss this, but Stefano insisted I tell him.
Same thing happens every time, personal attacks start and no solution is ever discussed.
And mary how can you even speak about something you don't know about, you just joined the community in April 2008, so you have no idea how united the community was in the past.
And how can you say I want things for free, you have no idea how much work I did beta testing in the previous beta releases 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and 7.0
Here is an example of how I want everything FREE, how I don't do any work.

http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,36748.0.html

So lets stop with personal attacks and try to figure out why the community went from 200 users online a day down to 30 users online a day.

[soprom]

So, what I've learned from this thread is:

Bad news:
- SME-Server is falling behind because of lack of dev ressources
- General Interest in SME could be decreasing (not sure)

Good news:
- SME-server is based on a concept that is gaining momentum since CC goes free, an other offers are arriving.

What others do:
- it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL
- ClearOS is more than endorsed by a leader from the Samba project
- Both CC and Ebox are using the same business model (free software with support for some price)

It might be time for contributors to start adapting their contribs for SME8. That would accelerate the process. I know that many of us are using SME8 and not reporting anything because it works... So lets push it! Open a forum section for SME8-beta since it is going to stay beta for a while.

[janet]

calisun

Same thing happens every time, personal attacks start and no solution is ever discussed.

That was a question ie "Do you expect ...... ?"
There was no personal attack, and I speak and understand english very well.
A solution was proposed, test sme8beta4 and use it too, and it was your current request for a CentOS based sme server that I was referring to.
Top marks to you for past efforts, but that is NOT going to help sme8 get out the door, so get active now, instead of carrying on about past efforts.

...how can you even speak about something you don't know about, you just joined the community in April 2008, so you have no idea how united the community was in the past.

I've been around for much longer than that since before the "community"  even started & I've seen the whole saga from e-smith until now, and been involved in ways you do not know. Since 2008 I have a reasonably strong public involvement, much stronger than many.

And how can you say I want things for free

My words/question followed on from your apparent lack of desire to get involved with sme8 testing, and statement to go elsewhere. You said it, not me.

Based on that, I asked a question (which was contextually related to sme8) and said "Do you expect ...someone else to do it ... for free..., just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything...and present....a (free) finished ....whatever".

you have no idea how much work I did beta testing in the previous beta releases 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and 7.0

And you have no idea of the work I did too, but so what !
Past efforts by either of us on earlier releases do not get sme8 issues resolved.
Why stop now, why not do the same for sme8beta4 ?

...try to figure out why the community went from 200 users online a day down to 30 users online a day.

I don't think the number of active online users in the Forums means a decline. There is now MUCH more information on the cluster of contribs.org websites. The Howtos and Contribs are available in the greatest number there has ever been in the whole history of e-smith/sme server.
If anything, a decline in Forum visitors could well attest to the great documentation work that many people have done, and the declining need for Forum questions. Check the number of page hits for the articles, it is quite busy for a "boutique technical website". As sme 7.4 is nearing end of life it is a mature OS, and many answers & knowledge is already available "out there".
Visitation statistics can mislead.
I'd say there are more sme7.x servers in use than any release ever before, and I think there is evidence to support that.

Please stop taking my questions/comments as a personal attack on you, you are creating something that doesn't exist.
You posted to this thread, so whether you agree with them or not, don't you want people to reply ?

[janet]

Probably now appropriate to add these links here so others can get involved, if they are not sure where to go/start.

SME Server 8 wiki page
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server_8

SME 8.0 Q&A
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME8.0_QA

[calisun]

I don't think the number of active online users in the Forums means a decline. ...
If anything, a decline in Forum visitors could well attest to the great documentation work that many people have done, and the declining need for Forum questions.

In the past when the user count was over 200, the most active forum was Beta forum. There were many more people posting in Beta forum than any other forum combined.

... So lets push it! Open a forum section for SME8-beta since it is going to stay beta for a while.

This is same thing what me and other people have suggested before. But the ideas have always been ignored and posts were closed for further discussion:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,44438.0.html