Koozali.org: home of the SME Server
Contribs.org Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: shawnbishop on September 18, 2009, 03:15:02 PM
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Hi
Well browsing the web, I found that ClarkConnect is now called "Clear Foundation", looks like it has had a nice new revamp and update...
What do you think??
http://www.clearfoundation.com/
Shawn
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Looks very corporate but I'll let you know when I've found my magnifying glass.
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This is interesting...
http://www.h-online.com/open/ClarkConnect-becomes-ClearOS--/news/114256 (http://www.h-online.com/open/ClarkConnect-becomes-ClearOS--/news/114256)
From this article, I learned that:
Now ClearOS – a Linux-based small business server and successor to ClarkConnect, will be free to use, with the income stream generated from related services.
The foundation will be chaired by John H. Terpstra, a long-serving member of the Samba development team and an untiring evangelist for all things open source.
ClearOS/ClarkConnect is based on CentOS 5.3. The separate, partly paid-for versions will be phased out in favour of a free full version.
Available by next december...
Some features found in Clark's:
- Multi-WAN
- ipsec vpn for site-to-site
- centos 5.3
- cyrus-imap for outlook connectors
Asterisk with FreePBX can be added manually.
Is this becoming a serious alternative to sme-server ?!
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Well if ClearFoundation is Totally "free", and it has a nice "corporate" interface, I think it will be..
:-)
But I am a SME Man... :-)
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I think they still have to build a knowledge base and a community to really match SME-server. Doc, contribs, forums and Howtos in SME's are bringing the distro far ahead dispite its less corporate look.
Over the years, I learned more because I was using SME. But a product like ClearOS will bring more attention to this kind of networking solution. And that is a great benefit.
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I am torn, I have been a SME server loyal user since 6.0 Beta
I have beta tested 6.0, 6.1. 6.5 (Which never came out) and 7.0
So I have a long history with SME Server, but at this point I think if ClerOS does everything I need, I will jump ship.
One of the main reasons is that CentOS 5.0 came out on April 12, 2007, and as of this date SME8, which is Based on CentOS 5.X, is still in Beta stage.
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I have beta tested 6.0, 6.1. 6.5 (Which never came out) and 7.0
One of the main reasons is that CentOS 5.0 came out on April 12, 2007, and as of this date SME8, which is Based on CentOS 5.X, is still in Beta stage.
so, are you now testing SME 8? and what are the other reasons?
Stefano
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calisun
So I have a long history with SME Server, but at this point I think if ClearOS does everything I need, I will jump ship.
A little fickle, if everyone jumps ship, then who is going to look after sme ?
You are placing your confidence in a newish product, although of course ClarkConnect has existed for some time.
Have you even tested the latest release of ClearOS ? It doesn't sound like it, and on that basis you are prepared to jump ship already ! Oh gee.
Please spend your time using and testing sme8b4, and help get a CentOS 5.x based sme release "out the door".
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so, are you now testing SME 8? and what are the other reasons?
Stefano
No, I am not testing SME8 because of the "other reasons"
I don't want to go into detail because developers will again ether delete my post or close this thread to further posts like they have done in the past.
I must admit that there is no sense of community here like before. In the past beta testing took months, not years like right now. Before there was more community involvement, a real democracy. Now there is a feeling of a dictatorship.
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No, I am not testing SME8 because of the "other reasons"
please, I repeat, define "other reasons"
I don't want to go into detail because developers will again ether delete my post or close this thread to further posts like they have done in the past.
I think that the matter is not WHAT you say but HOW do you say it.. so, again, explain
I must admit that there is no sense of community here like before. In the past beta testing took months, not years like right now. Before there was more community involvement, a real democracy. Now there is a feeling of a dictatorship.
I think you miss a point: dev's team is small, very small.. and there are no resources to waste.. anyway, if I were in your shoes I will post in the "general discussions" or directly in the dev's ML asking for a clarification
Stefano and.. "dictatorship" is another thing
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I will BETA test version 8, Lets see what it can do, I will use it as just my File servers at customers..
Also maybe look at a newish interface for SME 8??, something "corporate", and I am quite aware that the look doesnt mean anything etc...but we are all humans and we all like "Eye Candy"
Cheers
I have a feeling that this ClearOS, may be some serious competition..
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This thread is turning bad...
Well, I can understand why someone would select CLearOS over SMES. I know people who did. They mainly use their server "as-is". Personnaly, I customize my servers quite a bit and CC was not easy on this side. I know because I tried! And it has to be easy for me to do those things... That's why SMES is better for me.
Those other reasons to select CLearOS, like I said in a previous post are things like cyrus-imap and multi-wan... It is difficult for SMES to compete against a paid dev team, that's for sure. But SMES has benefited from a very interesting contributors base, probably because its free model.
Currently (or by next december), someone looking for a free general purpose server will definitly compare SMES and ClearOS, along with Engarde and Ubuntu/usm.
What is hurting SMES right now is that there are no contribs on SME8, SME7 is too far behind with php and mysql, nobody knows when SME8 final will be available.
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I don't think its bad that people are discussing alternatives. It can help guide future development (at whatever pace the small dev team can handle).
I've been testing 8b4 as well as ebox 1.3 and now I'll take a look at this new one. I will say that the ebox community is coming along quite nicely and the feature set is just about all there and since it's basically sitting on top of ubuntu/debian it is very customizable.
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please, I repeat, define "other reasons"
There is no reason to because that will not change anything, the leadership is so stuck in their ways that nothing will change.
If you don't believe me how things have changed, look at the numbers, before if you look at users online, you would see 100, 200 sometime even 300 users online. And most were actively in participating in beta forum with excitement and anticipation of the new release coming out and a real sense of community. Now you see 30, 40 users online? And most asking questions about current release, not too many are beta testing.
... I've been testing... ebox 1.3 ...
Looks nice, but one thing that it does not have and SME has, and I use a lot, is domain controller.
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Looks nice, but one thing that it does not have and SME has, and I use a lot, is domain controller.
If you're referring to ebox, it works just fine as a domain controller (all the way back to 1.1). In fact the beta of 1.3 is currently working to implement a MASTER/SLAVE relationship that will allow for some failover possibilities.
Look at this poll/thread I started and the followup by community members and developers.
Usage of eBox Platform (http://forum.ebox-platform.com/index.php?topic=1781.0)
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Also maybe look at a newish interface for SME 8??, something "corporate", and I am quite aware that the look doesnt mean anything etc...but we are all humans and we all like "Eye Candy"
you can always work/pay someone to work on css to give server-manager pages a more "corporate" look.. then, of course, you should post it in bugzilla
my 2c
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There is no reason to because that will not change anything, the leadership is so stuck in their ways that nothing will change.
looks like you are convincing yourself.. but you aren't telling anything.. you are not answering to my question
If you don't believe me how things have changed, look at the numbers, before if you look at users online, you would see 100, 200 sometime even 300 users online. And most were actively in participating in beta forum with excitement and anticipation of the new release coming out and a real sense of community. Now you see 30, 40 users online? And most asking questions about current release, not too many are beta testing.
just a curiosity: where do you read the online users number on these pages? because I can't see any number referring to guests/visitors..
so, again (but for the last time), what are talking about?
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I'm guessing s/he is referring to the numbers at the bottom of the forums front page. Like right now is says:
Users Online
36 Guests, 8 Users
Users active in past 15 minutes:
Elliott, Stefano, steve288, SARK devs, RF_Guy, hawk, kevinb, e[nt]e
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thank you..
I swear I've never seen it :-)
I always click on "Show unread posts since last visit." link (it's bookmarked)
thanks again
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A bit off topic as it is not on ClearOS, but it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL... talking about some references... I wish we would have them...
From http://www.ebox-technologies.com/services/ :
eBox Success Stories
I know eBox team and their open source project for quite a long time and I do believe eBox has the potential to disrupt the network server market in a similar way as MySQL disrupted the database market.
Mårten Mickos, Former CEO of MySQL
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looks like you are convincing yourself.. but you aren't telling anything.. you are not answering to my question
I am not answering your question because this is not the first time I had this discussion on the forums here. And I was told by developers in no uncertain terms that this is how things are, and when I tried to propose alternate way, my comments were deleted.
So there is no sense beating a dead horse, things will never change back to the way they used to be, a thriving community.
I know you want to disagree with me, and you have a right to your opinion, but the numbers don't lie: in the past 100, 200 even 300 users online, now 30-40. In the past it took months to work on beta releases, now years.
And don't get me wrong, I am not talking about developers technical skills, I am sure that they are wonderful programmers. I am just talking about people skills and ability to rally and excite troops.
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A bit off topic as it is not on ClearOS, but it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL... talking about some references... I wish we would have them...
From http://www.ebox-technologies.com/services/ :
Nevermind
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Could have been an interesting thread... too bad.
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What is hurting SMES right now is that there are no contribs on SME8, SME7 is too far behind with php and mysql, nobody knows when SME8 final will be available.
For those that need OS based on CentOS 5.X, besides ClearOS and eBox, Another program worth looking at:
http://www.blueonyx.it/
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calisun
...I am not talking about developers technical skills, I am sure that they are wonderful programmers. I am just talking about people skills and ability to rally and excite troops.
One of the key developers of a very small "few person" team, has little/no/minimal involvement with sme now, so as no other person of his stature has really stepped in to take over, the development lead time has suffered.
Do you expect Charlie Brady or Shad Lords or someone else to do it all (for free too), just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything and have it ready and present it to you as a (free) finished ClearOS or eBox or blueonyx or whatever else you can trawl up from the net ?
Charlie has called on more than one occasion for people to test sme8b4 with contribs. Have you ever done that ?
Your attitude is what is poor, and certainly not of "troop rallying quality", spending your time digging up and presenting other possibilities, rather than helping to build, improve and finalise what is already under your nose.
PS Despite no final official release tag, sme8beta4 is well advanced, and as far as I can see has all the functionality of the existing sme7.4 release. It is useable "as is" if you really "must have" a CentOS5.3 based OS now, and I'm sure Charlie has been using it for 2 years now in beta form, debugging as neccessity dictates.
I was using and testing an earlier beta release as long ago as March 2008 and it appeared quite stable even then, and all basic functions were there.
Yes it's been a long wait, but the answer is for more people like yourself to get involved, rather than jumping ship and running the other direction.
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... Do you expect Charlie Brady or Shad Lords or someone else to do it all (for free too), just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything and have it ready and present it to you as a (free) finished ClearOS or eBox or blueonyx or whatever else you can trawl up from the net ?
This is very sad, this is exactly why I did not want to discuss this, but Stefano insisted I tell him.
Same thing happens every time, personal attacks start and no solution is ever discussed.
And mary how can you even speak about something you don't know about, you just joined the community in April 2008, so you have no idea how united the community was in the past.
And how can you say I want things for free, you have no idea how much work I did beta testing in the previous beta releases 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and 7.0
Here is an example of how I want everything FREE, how I don't do any work.
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,36748.0.html
So lets stop with personal attacks and try to figure out why the community went from 200 users online a day down to 30 users online a day.
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So, what I've learned from this thread is:
Bad news:
- SME-Server is falling behind because of lack of dev ressources
- General Interest in SME could be decreasing (not sure)
Good news:
- SME-server is based on a concept that is gaining momentum since CC goes free, an other offers are arriving.
What others do:
- it seems Ebox is endorsed by Mårten Mickos former CEO of MySQL
- ClearOS is more than endorsed by a leader from the Samba project
- Both CC and Ebox are using the same business model (free software with support for some price)
It might be time for contributors to start adapting their contribs for SME8. That would accelerate the process. I know that many of us are using SME8 and not reporting anything because it works... So lets push it! Open a forum section for SME8-beta since it is going to stay beta for a while.
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calisun
Same thing happens every time, personal attacks start and no solution is ever discussed.
That was a question ie "Do you expect ...... ?"
There was no personal attack, and I speak and understand english very well.
A solution was proposed, test sme8beta4 and use it too, and it was your current request for a CentOS based sme server that I was referring to.
Top marks to you for past efforts, but that is NOT going to help sme8 get out the door, so get active now, instead of carrying on about past efforts.
...how can you even speak about something you don't know about, you just joined the community in April 2008, so you have no idea how united the community was in the past.
I've been around for much longer than that since before the "community" even started & I've seen the whole saga from e-smith until now, and been involved in ways you do not know. Since 2008 I have a reasonably strong public involvement, much stronger than many.
And how can you say I want things for free
My words/question followed on from your apparent lack of desire to get involved with sme8 testing, and statement to go elsewhere. You said it, not me.
Based on that, I asked a question (which was contextually related to sme8) and said "Do you expect ...someone else to do it ... for free..., just as you seem to expect someone else to do everything...and present....a (free) finished ....whatever".
you have no idea how much work I did beta testing in the previous beta releases 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and 7.0
And you have no idea of the work I did too, but so what !
Past efforts by either of us on earlier releases do not get sme8 issues resolved.
Why stop now, why not do the same for sme8beta4 ?
...try to figure out why the community went from 200 users online a day down to 30 users online a day.
I don't think the number of active online users in the Forums means a decline. There is now MUCH more information on the cluster of contribs.org websites. The Howtos and Contribs are available in the greatest number there has ever been in the whole history of e-smith/sme server.
If anything, a decline in Forum visitors could well attest to the great documentation work that many people have done, and the declining need for Forum questions. Check the number of page hits for the articles, it is quite busy for a "boutique technical website". As sme 7.4 is nearing end of life it is a mature OS, and many answers & knowledge is already available "out there".
Visitation statistics can mislead.
I'd say there are more sme7.x servers in use than any release ever before, and I think there is evidence to support that.
Please stop taking my questions/comments as a personal attack on you, you are creating something that doesn't exist.
You posted to this thread, so whether you agree with them or not, don't you want people to reply ?
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Probably now appropriate to add these links here so others can get involved, if they are not sure where to go/start.
SME Server 8 wiki page
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server_8
SME 8.0 Q&A
http://wiki.contribs.org/SME8.0_QA
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I don't think the number of active online users in the Forums means a decline. ...
If anything, a decline in Forum visitors could well attest to the great documentation work that many people have done, and the declining need for Forum questions.
In the past when the user count was over 200, the most active forum was Beta forum. There were many more people posting in Beta forum than any other forum combined.
... So lets push it! Open a forum section for SME8-beta since it is going to stay beta for a while.
This is same thing what me and other people have suggested before. But the ideas have always been ignored and posts were closed for further discussion:
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,44438.0.html
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calisun
A sme8 beta forum does not guarantee beta testers, but I believe it will guarantee queries from people who are having problems using the beta. Unfortunately forum use is seen by some as "less serious", "less intended" and "having less committment", casual if you prefer, and there are many examples of people not following through to bugzilla.
The thread you just referred to clearly spells out the reasons why there will be no sme8 beta forum. You do not seem to be able to accept this.
That thread also advised you to just get on with the task without needing a forum to do so.
In that thread sme8 beta testing was NOT closed for discussion, but a sme8 beta forum was.
Can you please get off your "hobby horse style" demands for a sme8 beta forum.
It has been stated that any and all matters relating to sme8 beta testing & development are to be posted on bugzilla, so please do so if you want the developers to be seriously looking at those matters/posts.
The issue of the use of the forums for early problem diagnosis etc has been discussed many times, even in relation to the current & past sme server versions.
As I understand it, nothing is stopping anyone from posting in say the General Discussion forum on any matter (preferably related somehow to sme), so you could post any sme8 beta query there. Even developers have stated that if people want to do pre bug triage in the forums, then that's OK with them, but please be sure to post a bug in bugzilla when it becomes evident that the issue is or may be a bug.
Please note the words at the top of the forums when you do a new post.
"Don't report problems here - Please report bugs and potential bugs in the bug tracker"
They imply that the "issue/problem/potential bug" does not already need to have been determined to be a bug in order to be reported to bugzilla. It's implying that indeed bugzilla is the place where a problem will be determined to be a bug or not.
If it turns out not to be a bug in terms of bugzilla criteria, then go back to the forums with the matter, or elsewhere if appropriate (which is commonly the case ie upstream or application issues).
So report anything you want about sme8 anywhere you choose that is already supported by the powers that be.
Does the location really matter to you, is it really that important to have a new temporary forum ?
The developers preference is in bugzilla as they do not want sme8 beta bug triage to be scattered anywhere else, and there is a single place for them to look and do their work.
Bugzilla as a forum is quite OK, as once you make a post you get an email notification of any changes etc, and there have been some very long threads in bugzilla, just like in the forums. There is a better management interface in bugzilla though.
Please drop the topic of a sme8 beta forum as has already been asked of you in other posts, and just get on with doing testing. Thanks.
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get off your "hobby horse style" demands
Here we go again with personal attacks.
And they are not just my demands, Soprom just asked for SME8 forums right now, and if you search forums, many other people have asked for it also in the past.
Besides, this is exactly why I told Stefano that I have no interest in discussing this. I already knew how this whole conversation will end up.
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To all
It has already been stated elsewhere that a sme8 beta forum will NOT be created.
This post and a few before it, have gone "off topic".
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After reading the 3 page discussion and being new here i would like to humbly offer two suggestions :
1.Maybe consider posting a banner or some kind of ad for testing sme 8 (it is not really clear in home page)
2.maybe consider offering a paid "same business day support" and use the revenue for sme.
In the mean time i will start testing sme 8 on a vm server as much as i can (1-3 hours a week i hope).
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How did this turn into a SME8 thread...
I just suggested looking at Clear Foundation...and as others have mentioned I have looked at Ebox again, did so a while back, found it didnt fulfill my needs, ( think that was version 0.8 ), looks interesting now..
And Yes i will test SME8 as I said :-)
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2.maybe consider offering a paid "same business day support" and use the revenue for sme.
A very good suggestion, discussions on this are going on on the discussion lists ATM.
In the mean time i will start testing sme 8 on a vm server as much as i can (1-3 hours a week i hope).
Do so, all testing is appreciated.
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I think it turned into an SME8 thread because that's inevitable when we talk about different distros.
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The foundation will be chaired by John H. Terpstra, a long-serving member of the Samba development team and an untiring evangelist for all things open source.
John's an old friend of mine. And I see him across the room at the Linux Plumbers Conference. I'll go and have a chat with him and see what they are up to :-)
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John's an old friend of mine. And I see him across the room at the Linux Plumbers Conference. I'll go and have a chat with him and see what they are up to :-)
Go get'm ;-)
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I see they have delayed their Beta release...not a good way to start??
Sure they will have it by the weekend though
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I see they have delayed their Beta release...not a good way to start??
Sure they will have it by the weekend though
mmhh.. just a question.. who cares? :-)
S.
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So lets stop with personal attacks and try to figure out why the community went from 200 users online a day down to 30 users online a day.
To debunk this numbers game let me throw out some real numbers. The "users online a day" used above isn't that at all. It is a peak number of users online at a give instance. This isn't any kind of indication of anything. When you release something new you are going to have a rush of incoming users trying to see what is going on and that number will skyrocket.
Currently the peak day (according to the numbers at the bottom) was July 4, 2008 with 313 users online at the same time. For 2008 that monthly average peak was around 130-150. The webstat number for 2008 show that we had about 18k unique visitors/month, 38k visits/month, and 500k pages/month. For 2009 we are sitting at 22k unique visitors/month, 44k visits/month, 500k pages/month.
If you add the wiki (2008 = 30k/60k/400k, 2009 = 35k/70k/600k) and the bugsilla (2008= 11k/15k/35k, 2009 = 11k/14k/40k) then you can see that the numbers of "at an instant online" that the forums report doesn't mean anything.
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SME will not sink like Titanic, but I have a feeling it is sinking, slowly...
thomas
You jump I jump - Jack Dawson
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I love the SME distro..it is fantastic...what would it cost to revamp the interface??
I am completely aware that it doesnt make a difference to the Administrators etc...but to the corporate environment like nice "eye candy"...
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I love the SME distro..it is fantastic...what would it cost to revamp the interface??
I am completely aware that it doesnt make a difference to the Administrators etc...but to the corporate environment like nice "eye candy"...
well.. start working on css and then submit your work in bugzilla..
anyway, instead on thinking about the administration interface look, I'd think about integrating LDAP and, for example, Zarafa.. I'm studying zarafa manual and planning to create a server-manager panel to manage users, groups, roles ecc.
is there anybody interested in? (yes, I know, I should ask such a question in dev's ML)
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to create a server-manager panel to manage users, groups, roles ecc.
smeserver-zarafa already has two panels, check smetest or cvs
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Yep...Zafara and LDAP...nice, I have managed to get it working..Zafara that is, not the integration..:-)
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smeserver-zarafa already has two panels, check smetest or cvs
ok.. I'm going to test it asap
thank you
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I'm testing CC and comparing both systems (sme7). My notes are here:
Why bother?
Now that CC goes free, contributors will have a better look at ClearOS and some energy-merging may be possible. With SME-s falling behind because of a lack of dev resources, ClearOS has the advantage with a paid dev-team. If ClearOS accomodates for "contributions from the ouside", it may take a definite lead. As it is a substitue for Exchange, which SME-s is not, there again, it has the avdantage.
http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos (http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos)
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I'm testing CC and comparing both systems (sme7). My notes are here:
http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos (http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos)
Thanks... interesting to see from an SME users perspective.
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smeserver-zarafa already has two panels, check smetest or cvs
Rather one panel. CFG panel is empty...
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Rather one panel. CFG panel is empty...
yes.. and, as far as I understand, I have to create users.. so this contrib uses zarafa db (mysql) backend.. I'd prefer unix backend (i.e. SME users/groups) or ldap one..
just a question.. where is the proper place to discuss about this plugin development? bugzilla? dev's ML? private mail?
thank you
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just a question.. where is the proper place to discuss about this plugin development? bugzilla? dev's ML? private mail?
Well, believe or not, I would bet on the bugtracker!!!
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I'm testing CC and comparing both systems (sme7). My notes are here:
http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos (http://drupal.logiciel-libre.org/compare-sme7-clearos)
That's really like testing apples and oranges, and technically you could say it's not a true comparsion as SME Server 7 is based on CentOS 4.x where as CC is based on CentOS 5.x, a better comparsion would be SME Server 8beta.x as that is based on CentOS 5.x.
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That's really like testing apples and oranges
No sir! My comparison will be dealing with 2 systems that are currently supported, and in "stable" state. SME8 is beta with no contribs. ClearOS will be same as CC5-enterprise.
Technically, it could be Debian, Suse, or anything else. Just 2 supported, stable, free server distros.
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No sir! My comparison will be dealing with 2 systems that are currently supported, and in "stable" state. SME8 is beta with no contribs.
You say your comparison is with 2 systems of which both are in a stable state but that is again not true as ClearOS 5.1 is in beta mode at the moment is it not ?
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I'm using CC5-enterprise for my comparison...
I don't see any point in comparing 2 centos4 systems since it is not relevent.
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After spending some time comparing what I can do with both distros, I come to the conclusion that I must be prudent before I use ClearOS. The list of contribs for SME-Server is the main indicator of what I mean. It is impressive and I did not find a contributor's space in ClearOS.
Reading the ClearOS webconfig php sources, with the little knowledge of php that I have, let me think it is not easy or organized to receive contributors addons. In other word, ClearOS does not appear to be contributor friendly like SME-Service is with no doubt. As a dev-team usually works on ideas they approved, with SME-Server, someone can work on it independently with no problem. Recent examples of this: zarafa, openvpn-bridge, ejabberd, etc.
With a single line of instructions I can install Scuttle, and with a few ones, I can install eGroupware, etc...
If someone needs only what ClearOS offers out-of-the-box, it's a good choice. But if we need an open-minded system, SME-Server is better structure to adapt to new software.
Also, being able to do almost everything from the command line is a big point in favour of SME-server for those who have to maintain many sites, remotedly.
It is obvious that SME8 is overdue and that it hurts to certain point. But "jumping the ship", as someone put it, might not be a good advise. Unless contributors find their way into CLearOS's menu system, the strenght of SME-Server is in its contribs and howtos.
For a user like me, it translates into a system that will adapt to needs that I don't know about, yet.
My 3 cents...
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All right! , I read all, staying away of attacks and others bad words, we, SME users / power users, etc we have to be patient.
I use SME now for years, and I will continue as many of us. the shiny and modern look is not sufficient to me to jump somewhere else.
I'll keep SME 7.4 for my basic disk and file sharing functions, with backuppc and openvpn plugged into it. And as I need mysql 5 and PHP 5, my idea is to build a debian vmware server with SME on one V box and some debian server (or similar) to home applications who needs mysql 5 with php 5. Purpose is to wait SME8 . when this version will comes up - it will it will.. - will be the time to move back everything on SME 8.
don't be desperate when you see few users online : I come here every 3 months... BUT I have a daily look on distro watch to check if SME 8 is out. the day will come ...
We have just to be patient, not easy in this world where everyone wants everything now.....
rgds
Fred.
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I think you all are overlooking something very important.
the fact that we all comment here says that we all care for SME and that we all use it and enjoy it's benefits.
The Important thing i think should be to understand the needs of the admin that installs SME and to understand what will affect her/him to choose SME over other distros.
I think that it is obvious now that SME as a core system is very reliable and stable and has very good basic features that comes along with it.
For me, this community is one of the 1st things that influenced my choice and caused me to install SME at most of my clients.
Another important thing for me is the option to add functionalities (contribs) and the fact that the dev team and the community are checking the contribs and helping fix things when they happen !
BUT
The long time that takes between upgrades is something i took as a "price" for such a good distro.
It start to be in the way when i can't install NEW third party software on SME - just because it is old and doesn't fulfill the minimum requirements for most of what i want to install !!!
SME8 is on the way - yes, i know, and i do understand the time it takes for dev team to actually do the work but 8 is in BETA and since it's in BETA, no contribs are released.
Also, i don't know if the fact that 8 is in the background dosent affect contributors to "hold" thire ideas and to wait with releasing new contribs for 7 !!!
I don't know how many installations of SME include contribs but for me, this is one of the things that makes SME something i can just integrate at the customer and afterwords add functions to the server with a click of a keyboard !
Giving the community an option to test SME8 without its contribs may be the reason for fewer testers than years before - i did install SME8 on one of my test servers but what interest me most with the new version is how it works with the current contribs and what other new exciting contribs will be added to it since it supports all the new generation of servers and applications.
In short, since i am NOT a developer, the only way i can help is by testing SME8 and i will want to do that when it will contain the stuff that i need and use and know how it should be working.
I don't know and don't understand the considerations for including or excluding stuff from the BETA version or what must happen for the BETA to become RC but i do want to start using the next generation of SME and i am patiently waiting for it to happen.
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As this thread will be read by newcomers as well as the usual croud on contribs, it's important to present relevant info. Quite a few posts are not usefull at all in this thread to this regard.
The key point, comparing SME7/8 and ClearOS is the contributors activity. CLearOS is still carrying its "commercial" way of thinking when SME-Server is well into a more general open source minding.
Multi-WAN
If you are looking for this, ClearOS would be your choice since it is so rare to see this feature free and easy. psSense is costly and complex but it might do more than ClearOS.
Exchange Substitute
If you need this, ClearOS could also be your way to go. SME-Server won't help you much on this. But this community is starting to use Zarafa (which also recently became free open-source). So you might evaluate both solutions.
Php5
It is touchy to select ClearOS on this criteria alone because when SME8 will move into final release, the criteria will disappear... As a server is selected for many years, a short term evaluation could be misleading. Some apps are already requiring php5.2. The problem will be the same with either servers.
Web Applications
SME-Server is much more easy to work with. Many contributors and developers are publishing howto's and contribs to make this task very easy. Then SME-Server is your way to go.
Specialized solutions
SME-Server is better and has a long history. Just look here to make a good comparison of both server: http://wiki.contribs.org/Category:Contrib (http://wiki.contribs.org/Category:Contrib) and http://wiki.contribs.org/Category:Howto (http://wiki.contribs.org/Category:Howto). From what I read and the tests I did, ClearOS still have to reach this far and is working with the notion of "partners". With SME-Server you won't spend your time compiling solutions. You'll generally install "rpm" (pre-compiled). Those rpms are published by a contributor that did all the hard work for you.
VoIP and unified communication
SME-Server is far more in advance on this point with selintra, ejabberd, etc. CLearOS has a howto to compile asterisk and install FreePBX. SME-Server has rpms ready to use.
LDAP Authentification (added)
There is some integration of LDAP in clearOS with samba and kolab, SME-Server do not use much of LDAP. This is a shaky comment of mine. I don't really know what I'm talking about.
So, for those SME-Server users who "jump the ship", frustrated, I think the water will be colder than they thought.
The great news is that free and open-source solutions are more and more available to build an extraordinary set of network services. And both SME-Server and ClearOS are demonstrations of this non-proprietary approach.
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Excellent summary soprom.
I would like to add the following:
LDAP Authentication
More and more applications require LDAP Authentication to function as a single sign-on application. ClearOS I believe has LDAP authentication. SME has a LDAP contrib which may have fallen idle at beta.
Exchange Substitute
If you need this, ClearOS could also be your way to go. SME-Server won't help you much on this. But this community is starting to use Zarafa (which also recently became free open-source). So you might evaluate both solutions.
If you add the LDAP contrib (beta) to SME 8 with SOGo and Thunderbird then you have Exchange/Outlook replacement and not just an Exchange replacement. ClearOS may have an advantage here since I believe it already has LDAP authentication.
IMHO SOGo has more to offer than Zarafa if you want to replace Outlook with Thunderbird and it will use the existing SME IMAP server and configuration (you do not have to pick which system [Zarafa or SME mail] your users will be using).
Kevin
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By referring to "Exchange Substitute" I meant to use Outlook with functionalities similar to Exchange. Replacing Outlook is quite a different subjet.
I did not see how far goes LDAP implementation in clearOS. And you are right to bring this point. It should be considered.
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I can understand why many things are the way they are.
Equipment and software have both evolved and also how we use equipment or software has changed, or you might just say the way we use equipment or software may not be the way it was years ago.
I can see where many users where interested in development during the previous years.
The current version of sme 7.4 meets most of my needs and it is stable.
Yes it would be nice to have the more current applications such as php and mysql.
I am still running on windows 2000 pro, i have not left that os because it does what i need and i know how to use and administer it.
But I do not know how long i am going to be able to stay with windows 2000. A lot of it has to do with equipment, drivers and compatibility.
The same goes for SME. When somethings works good for you, we are not that subject to just up and leave it and look for something else, even a newer version of SME.
Many of the changes we make are forced on us because of certain environmental needs in computing.
Simplicity is more difficult with added computing functionality.
So i can understand why there might not be an interest in something other when the thing that is working for most of us(i am guessing here) currently now. I am not one looking to jump from the frying pan into the fire, so to say.
With few development personnel, i can understand how changes(upgrading) can be a very large and long task.
I believe there are many more people interested in upgrading to sme8, but how interested.
For me to upgrade or change to anything else, and i would only do that on the side of what i already have, i would need a stable os that gives me file sharing with all windows nt flavors with no hassle , web server, and some utilities to where i could monitor the os for failures and recover from them. Should it be a windows server, NO, if you want a windows server, buy one, but it should have basics to get along with windows without problems.
I believe if sme was trying to be the all-in-one server ever, then they are missing the point in what probably most the users are interested in, the basics first, even at the point of not having a gui interface for anything other than standard uses.
Documentation can even be written as user needs are asked, there is no need to have something great and pretty up front.
I left one thing out, maintenance, our systems software maintenace, be it for anitvirus, spam, bugs in software, whatever. This is important also and this might even force a change(upgrade) in server software.
Nothing stays the same, but hopefully we do not need to change everything at once. If there is a bright spot to all this, at least equipment has become more easily to purchase to run side(multiple, beta,etc) operating systems on.
ps about a month ago, we started using our first vista os computers, they where laptops and yes it was one hell of a learning curve i have put off, and yes their so called better gui interface, i hate it and find it very unproductive. We are only using those to surf the internet.
I also want to say that i have not tried sme8, i am still learning sme7.4 or you could say sme. I believe sme 7 was the first version i really liked, because i was able to get my feet wet good then gradually enter the more difficult things i wanted to do.
have a nice weekend, finally some good weather here in louisiana has come.
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My point of view:
I have used the sme server a number of years under its former name e-smith, and i'm still using it.
I think that the basic design of the SME server is very good, but may be the product could be even bether with some kind of rethinking and new innovation.
May be it could be an idea to look into as a idea to make that big system of perl configuration tools so fully integrated into each other ? May be there could be ways to build in more modularity so that new developments and revisions is not that complicated .. and takes so long time .. Just a question..
Like the firewall configuration question that is one of my personal favorites. There is no problem at all to make the SME server to run any combinition of network cards and security zones, wireless zones, dmz zones etc, and I have used it this way for years.
The SME server can do these things without a problem, if you just know how to turn off the existing automated firewall configuration tools.
The SME server is also a very good candidate for virtualization alternatives (as guest) and ther could also be spezialized configuration alternative for this. (Yes I sendt in a proposal with already tested configuration alternatives, but nobody wanted to listen.)
I'm anyhow very happy that someone is giving me a free operating system, and I don't feel I'm in the position to give any complaint, but I believe that the SME developers might have had a even bether product to maintain, if they were willing to pick up a few new ideas about some basic design.
Anyhow I hope that the SME 8.0 will come out of it's beta stage and that there still will be a SME server at least for the next 50 years .. !
By the way .. I belive that the ideas of Perl configuration tools of the SME server might be a bether idea than the PHP configuration tools of the ClarcConnect server.
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Like the firewall configuration question that is one of my personal favorites. There is no problem at all to make the SME server to run any combinition of network cards and security zones, wireless zones, dmz zones etc, and I have used it this way for years.
The SME server can do these things without a problem, if you just know how to turn off the existing automated firewall configuration tools.
Arne, could you please give us the reference to the nfr you open in bugzilla with your code to achieve such a thing?
IIRC you've been told many times to share your code; you've been told many times also that any modification that does not respect SME's internals could not be considered a good choice.
so, again, please share your code or stop. thank you
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May be it could be an idea to look into as a idea to make that big system of perl configuration tools so fully integrated into each other ? May be there could be ways to build in more modularity so that new developments and revisions is not that complicated ...
SME server is already very modular. That's why there can be so many contribs which simply install without modifying anything which is already there.
SME server development is only 'that complicated' if you do not understand it.
This is, however, off-topic for this thread, which concerns ClearOS.
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Stefano ->
I have used this firewall setup for years and I also sent it in as a proposal years ago. I guess that if you use the search function it can be found. Just now I rather use a setup based on virtualization and a virtual instanse of Smoothwall, because it is quick and easy to use and it is stable and without problems.
(And the sme server is set up as a virtual server only installation behind the virtual Smothwall gateway. This leavs open the option of allmost any combinition of network card combinitions, just as resticted by the Smoothwall. If the Smoothwall is not flexible enough it can be replased by any other virtual Linux gateway like also a standard Linux distro with netfilter/iptables.)
I'm not in the need to make any discussion because I can solve any of the firewall problems I can imagine (at least at the moment).
I just try to be a bit constructive, and yes the fully tested firewall scripts were sendt years ago, if I don't remeber everything wrong.
CharlieBrady ->
I think that this tread, in the SME forum, in some way is about the SME server versus the new ClearOS.
For me it is a quite clear argument pro the SME server that when you combine the SME server with the Smoothwall gateway in an virtual environment, this "combined server gateway" with all the benefits and the configuration tools of the Smoothwall and the SME server works very good together.
I thinkt that the SME server could also have had a configuration option as running as a optimized virtual wan server or a optimized lan server, so you as an excample could run each in diffetent virtual security zones. I actually tested out and sendt a proposal about a year a go or so, I believe.
(And again: If things can work with all the flexibility and all options I'm looking for, its not a problem for me at all that people does not agree in what I am doing. This is the basic nature of open source .. I think.)
By the way Im looking forward and hoping to see the SME 8.0 final, because for me the SME server is the perfect server with all flexible options, even though I dont use it "the complete standard way".
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Stefano ->
I have used this firewall setup for years
it doesn't matter.. is your fw setup SME's compliant? I mean, does it use templates/fragments/db variables? if the answer is no, you should stop proposing it as a possible solution..
and I also sent it in as a proposal years ago. I guess that if you use the search..
yes, I remember, but I remember also that you never posted 'good' code (in the SME's way)
I'm not in the need to make any discussion because I can solve any of the firewall problems I can imagine (at least at the moment).
I just try to be a bit constructive, and yes the fully tested firewall scripts were sendt years ago, if I don't remeber everything wrong.
if you really want to be costructive, spend some time to convert your iptables script to SME's standards...
thank you
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Stefano ->
The suggestion were buildt on original e-smith documentation and suggested methods from this documentation from the earlier versions of e-smith. .. and strange enough .. it still worked as it did at that time. I also found it described as "recomended method" if I do not remember it wrong.
Actually my idea and my suggestion were to go back a bit in time and do new choices from that time, that will fit best as possible, with the tecnical options of today. I believe that Linux firewalling were quite a lot more difficult at that time compared with now.
When this basic design were done IPTABLES neither NETFILTER did exist, and those options that followed from this "new" technology did not yet exist. But the basic design still leave it as an open option to implement all the technical options of todays Linux kernels for those who like to do so.
Personally I don't like to do it any more, as I prefere to rather use a virtual Smoothwall gateway, in front of a virtual SME server only.
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I'm anyhow very happy that someone is giving me a free operating system, and I don't feel I'm in the position to give any complaint,
Yet you seem to hop on this horse again and again and fail to comply with the requests of the development team to share your changes in the bugtracker,
but I believe that the SME developers might have had a even bether product to maintain, if they were willing to pick up a few new ideas about some basic design.
Which they are happy to do, if you would provide them with the changes you made, once again please open a NFR for it.
By the way .. I belive that the ideas of Perl configuration tools of the SME server might be a bether idea than the PHP configuration tools of the ClarcConnect server.
I see no reason for that, as most of the features needed can be done using PHP as well.
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Hi Arnie
Could you give your configuration of the Virtual Smoothwall / Smeserver setup..??
Been trying to do something like this but cant get my head around it
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Yes and no, and yes again ..
It is not mentioned in only one single post and it will require some time, workhours etc to go trough it all.
It would require a new tread and an accept from forum admin that it is ok to discuss such a item in the forum. (THat it is considered not to be off-topic.)
Actually the whole installation tecnically is more a Vmware project than a SME server project, even though from a user point of view it is more the combined functionality of Smoothwall and SME server or to say it like that .. a sme server with a free and flexible, independent, easy to configure firewall system.
By the way ..
It might not be that diffcult to explain .. the main prinsipple is that the nat function of the Vmware server should not be used.
For a two port setup the wan adapter is bridged over to the Smoothwall red adapter. The host system wan adapter should not have a ip-adress at all, so it will be "invisible". When you are pinging the external address from the outside then you are pinging the virtual smootwall firewall "directely".
The lan adapter of the host system is bridged over to the green adapter of the Smoothwall and to the lan adapter of the virtual sme server only installation.
I thinkt that the lan adapter of the host system dont need to have a ip, but it can have an internal adress for administrative purposes. (But no adress at all might be the best option from a security point of view.)
Things can be set up in a lot of different ways, but this 2 port setup will work as if you had a Smoothwall box in front of a SME box and the sme server running on the lan segment. Via the functionality virtual Smoothwall installation, it is easy to build out with a wireless zone and a DMZ zone, and just bridge over the new adapters to the virtual Smoothwall.
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It would require a new tread and an accept from forum admin that it is ok to discuss such a item in the forum. (THat it is considered not to be off-topic.)
Why not just create a new topic yourself then? Everyone can do that, no administrator needs to be involved....
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arne
If you create a topic in the General Discussion forum, then that should be OK.
People are free to utilise or ignore your methods.
Solutions that do not conform to "current sme standards", will not get support from devs and other users who prefer/demand code that integrates into the existing templating system and is configurable via server manager and db commands.
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If you create a topic in the General Discussion forum, then that should be OK.
People are free to utilise or ignore your methods.
But still if you are going to make fundamental changes you should detail them in a bug report and not in the forums, code in the forums will not be implemented in future releases as this code will not even be considered.
Code in bugs in the bugtracker, might also not be included but is at least considerd. Arne please follow up to the many requests you have had and detail you solution in a bug instead of repeatedly keep referring to your method without supplying additional information.
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I think there is two different qustions that hve been mentioned, the one is how to run sme server under Vmware, together with the Smoothwall firewall, and the other is how to modify the firewall of the SME server itself.
To run SME server under Vmware together with the Soothwall firewall will of course not break any SME server design (??!!)
A SME server and a Smoothwall as two independent virtual installations will not conflict with each other in any way.
Maybe Shawnbishop will find the solution how to do this from the info allready posted.
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A new thread should have been created indeed...
But indirectly, trying to bash on SME-Server brings one of its strenght! It is easy to install vmware and run vmachines on it.
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Since ClearOS is a part of the topic of this thread I have this question.
What makes ClearOS appear to be a more appealing community then SME??
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[removed[
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A community!
Fie!
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[removed[
http://www.clearfoundation.com/Community/Home.html (http://www.clearfoundation.com/Community/Home.html)
hth
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Fie!
Fie??
–interjection
1. (used to express mild disgust, disapprobation, annoyance, etc.)
2. (used to express the humorous pretense of being shocked.)
Not sure there's clearity in "Fie!", take your pick.
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There is not much contributor space in ClearOS compared to SME. A community is not only a web site maintained to handle the promotion and forum. A community more appealing then SME would be having a few contributors like contribs is full of.
I removed my comment since it was said to be distasfull but the question was about "community" and it means contributors. Their contributions must be easily added to the menu system and survive updates.
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Since ClearOS is a part of the topic of this thread I have this question.
What makes ClearOS appear to be a more appealing community then SME??
I'll take a shot at this. Right now, their community is thin and responses are slow. The main reason as far as I can tell is because the Clark Connect people are still using the old forums. They are supposedly going to be migrating those into the ClearOS forums soon - or at least freezing the CC forums as they promote the upgrade from CC to the free ClearOS distro.
As far as contributors go, they are built into the framework for ClearOS but as if yet I don't see any actualy contributors tools. I am completely guessing on this, but I imagine it's the same thing. The contribs they have are in CC5.0 or 5.1 and will also start being ported over as the contributors themselves move towards the upgrade.
Another community out there that is currently somewhere between the happy days of SME's community and the newer days of ClearOS is the eBox-platform community. I've found that they are much more responsive than ClearOS at this point and their developers are much more likely to answer in a friendly tone and react to requests when they're not idiotic. Their bugtracker is also a bit less archaic than others I've participated in so that's a plus.
-E
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What makes ClearOS appear to be a more appealing community then SME??
<flaming on>
that you are not a part of their community?
</flaming off>
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Woops... I did not read correctly.
It is written "What makes ClearOS appear "
and I understood "What WOULD make ClearOS appear "... bid ooops here from me!
Then I'm sorry for this reading problem of mine. So, if the question was:
What WOULD make ClearOS appear to be a more appealing community then SME??
My comment would have been:
A community
Charlie, I'm sorry for making your heart stop and go!!! :oops:
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Soprom
I don't quite completely understand your comments, could you elaborate a little further.
I think I understand what your trying to convey.
Elliott
I understand your points, wasn't aware of eBox, looking at it quickly I guess I could pose the question in the same manor with eBox.
I guess a better question to poise is...
What separates and/or distinguishes SME from the rest of the pack and why are those projects forging new grounds.
Here's what baffles me as a member here for 5+ years, SME is a unique server platform like no other on this entire planet and yet it's growth is stagnant.
It should be the number one server plateform, it maintains something that no other server has, it's automated.
There is no other automated server available, Windows or Linux.
So the question then becomes, why hasn't it surpassed all the others?
Is it because it's to complicated and people don't understand it and the underlying value.
If we were taking about an automobile and we automate it to drive it'self down the road, certainly we would expect it to out sell all others.
Is that something we can't or shouldn't expect in this case, if so...then why?
hth
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Is it because it's to complicated and people don't understand it and the underlying value.
No that is not the reason as lots of users start with it easily, AFAICT. Even though we do not make a big effort in advertising this product the installation base is over 18k instances (http://smolt.contribs.org/)
The real reason is that we have a small community with little resources. More time or a bigger development team could speed up the development, shorten the release cycle and place SME Server in front off the pack.
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I'd say lack of devs/dev funding...
Or lack of single driving entity to give a roadmap to development based on tech market trends as well as user based need.
Also marketing which ties into the funding issue.
My fear is that in the NOW, the lack of support for Win7 clients in the domain controller will drive some new clients as well as some longer standing clients away.
-E
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The question was misleading for me in the sense that asking "What makes ClearOS appear to be a more appealing community then SME??" on this forum caugh me by surprise because I don't see this "appealing community" that you do see.
It might be interesting that you explain why you find it more appealing. Contribs is a strong community and you consider that CLearOS's community is more appealing!? Please elaborate on that because the assertion is not obvious to me.
The look of the UI is better than the server-manager, but this does not define a community.
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The real reason is that we have a small community with little resources.
OK...why?
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OK...why?
because there is a lot of people that use SME without making donation and without helping with bug fixing.. sounds familiar?
ragarding your sign, I repeat: use your time and knowledge helping the community..
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ragarding your sign, I repeat: use your time and knowledge helping the community..
I agree with Stefano. electoman00, either do something about http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139 or shut up about it. I don't know what your point is - is it that you are a professional griper? Or do you just do it for fun?
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It has not been demonstrated that the ClearOS community is more appealing!
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Long live SME and it's Community
I have learned more from you guys about Linux than any other Community.
This Product and This Community Speaks for itself and is simply the BEST there is. PERIOD.
The Rest try to Follow and Copy what's already been done and Being done by the SME Community.
LONG LIVE SME
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Charlie, I'm sorry for making your heart stop and go!!! :oops:
Sophie
I can asure you Charlie wasn't making reference to your post.
No need for you to take it to heart, he was refencing my post surely.
hth
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I was trying to get low and forget about my stupid reading error... Thanks for bringing this back!!!
By the way, you never said what you liked in the ClearOS's community. Maybe it's an other of my reading errors...
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I can asure you Charlie wasn't making reference to your post.
Not so. I was responding to Sophie's now-removed post.
hth
We're still waiting for your contribution to bug 139. We'll believe you really are 'hth' when we see it.
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Charlie, I didn't see an issue with her post, however I do have issue with other posts in this thread.
I appears you didn't read my post and comperhend it correctly or you simply didn't read it.
As far as 139, exactly where did I bring it up in this thread, maybe you would be so kind as to point it out.
We're still waiting for your contribution to bug 139.
What contribution would you like me to make.
The bug is there, the solution is there.
What would you like me to do?
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As far as 139, exactly where did I bring it up in this thread, maybe you would be so kind as to point it out.
In your signature.
What contribution would you like me to make.
Create patches, work on the required code changes.
The bug is there, the solution is there.
What would you like me to do?
Implement the solution. It is not as evident as it might seem, but that is what should be discussed in the bug report and not here in the forums.
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Charlie, I didn't see an issue with her post, however I do have issue with other posts in this thread.
You are using my mistake and I don't like that.
In answering your recent question, I meant to say that there was no such ClearOS's community compared to SME's... and I printed the opposite. So Charlie was very right to promptly react to it.
I don't know in English what to call your recent posts in this thread, reusing my words to make your point. But Quebecors have an expression for it... but it would be impolite to print it here.
This thread is not productive at all.
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In your signature.
Create patches, work on the required code changes.
Implement the solution. It is not as evident as it might seem, but that is what should be discussed in the bug report and not here in the forums.
Thank you Cactus.
It's obvious this is already spinning out of control before any of my posts in this thread.
Since I don't frequent the forum much anymore, I wasn't aware things have spun up to this level.
I will therefore take some time to try and understand the issue and will look to a furture response via PM.
This is without a doubt the wrong arena to deal with this issue, I think you would agree.
Thank you again my friend...
Have a good day...
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I will therefore take some time to try and understand the issue and will look to a furture response via PM.
you should not write a PM..
if you have something to share with us, use the forums.. if you have code/patches, use bugzilla..
in any other case, please stop.
thank you
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ebox-platform has put out version 1.4 with some killer features http://trac.ebox-platform.com/wiki/Features (http://trac.ebox-platform.com/wiki/Features).
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ebox-platform has put out version 1.4 with some killer features
Do they have a reliable backup system yet that a Linux noob can do a restore from ?
http://trac.ebox-platform.com/wiki/Document/HowTo/WhatToDoWhenRestoringABackupFails
I have had a look at this, and ClearOS also. Not because I am planning jumping ship but because I owe it to myself to know what else is happening around me. The water is definitely colder ...... IMHO, I think the water will warm up but not anytime soon.
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An interesting page on the ClearOS site.
http://www.clearfoundation.com/Foundation/core-team-honor-roll.html (http://www.clearfoundation.com/Foundation/core-team-honor-roll.html)
Interesting group of Committee Members.
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Interesting group of Committee Members.
could you please explain what's so interesting? and, of course, what's the main difference between SME and ClearOS Foundation?
thank you
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Just wondering, did you look at the list of members?
Edit:corrected spelling
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Just wondering, did you look at the list of members?
of course, I did.. but you did not answer me.. I repeat my question: could you please explain us what's the main difference between SME and ClearOS Foundation?
TIA
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ah I just had a look and thought wow what a wide and varied spread , then noticed the SME members, are you suggesting we should infer something from this ?
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then noticed the SME members, are you suggesting we should infer something from this ?
Didn't suggest anything, just offered the awareness to everyone, of my research, however it appears you just made the suggestion to infer something.
If nothing else at this point, I do find the list interesting as you do.
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ah I just had a look and thought wow what a wide and varied spread , then noticed the SME members, are you suggesting we should infer something from this ?
Please do not feed electroman00. Once again he is steering of topic and posting irrelevant data.
Electroman00, if I see this wrong than please speak up plainly what was your intent with posting a referral to this list. IMHO you are trying to provoke a reaction, while keeping yourself from burning your fingers.
No need to do so, as in the true spirit of Open Source some of us are also helping out other Open Source projects, which is their own choice and should be regarded as a good thing.
The ClearOS Foundation gladly allowed us to use their samba RPMs for instance so we can perhaps finally release a version of SME Server with Windows 7 support (see bug 5425 comment 7 (http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5425#c7) as well as later comments by Peter Baldwin).
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The ClearOS Foundation gladly allowed us to use their samba RPMs for instance so we can perhaps finally release a version of SME Server with Windows 7 support (see bug 5425 comment 7 (http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5425#c7) as well as later comments by Peter Baldwin).
That is Interesting Cactus thanks.
Thanks for you're "awareness" electroman00 , I t looks like as Cactus says then the two projects are sharing as all good open source projects do.
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Please do not feed electroman00. Once again he is steering of topic and posting irrelevant data.
Electroman00, if I see this wrong than please speak up plainly what was your intent with posting a referral to this list. IMHO you are trying to provoke a reaction, while keeping yourself from burning your fingers.
No need to do so, as in the true spirit of Open Source some of us are also helping out other Open Source projects, which is their own choice and should be regarded as a good thing.
The ClearOS Foundation gladly allowed us to use their samba RPMs for instance so we can perhaps finally release a version of SME Server with Windows 7 support (see bug 5425 comment 7 (http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5425#c7) as well as later comments by Peter Baldwin).
Electroman00, if I see this wrong than please speak up plainly what was your intent with posting a referral to this list. IMHO you are trying to provoke a reaction, while keeping yourself from burning your fingers.
How you derived all that from my post is beyond certainly my understanding.
Distorted & Twisted Thinking at it's best.
The Roadmap to the future.
I will wish you all good luck in the future with your endevors.
Have a good day...
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How you derived all that from my post is beyond certainly my understanding.
I'm pretty sure that this simple request is not beyond your understanding: please explain us in simple words the difference between SME and ClearOS foundation. I'm sure you can do it.
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How you derived all that from my post is beyond certainly my understanding.
It is the post in combination with your reputation caused by behavior in the past in these forums as well as your personal style of communication directed to community members on these forums as well as through other channels.
You have not shown a very positive attitude towards this community and it's philosophies IMHO.
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Distort & Twist Think and Say use Rhetoric, do whatever you want, I'm Done.
You folks have your reasons, great.
I have the Results
Grand Finale.
Fat Lady has sung for me.
Since you didn't comprehend the statment in my previous post here, it is again.
I will wish you all good luck in the future with your endevors.
Bye
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Sorry about adding to this already wandering thread, but I need to jump in to end some of the speculation...
John's an old friend of mine. And I see him across the room at the Linux Plumbers Conference. I'll go and have a chat with him and see what they are up to :-)
The John referenced in Charlie's quote is John Terpstra -- he's a Samba team member and President of ClearFoundation. The chat was the start of a more open communications channel amongst some of the folks at SME Server and ClearFoundation. As cactus mentioned, this lead to new opportunities to cooperate. Samba, the build systems and the installer are just some of the technical topics that have been discussed, albeit in a very informal and fragmented way.
How shallow or deep will the level of co-operation go? (shrugs) Don't know, I'm not a psychic! I do know that the ClearFoundation Committee certainly appreciates the perspective provided by a cross section of members of the SME community.
Peter Baldwin
ClearOS Manager
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The chat was the start of a more open communications channel amongst some of the folks at SME Server and ClearFoundation. As cactus mentioned, this lead to new opportunities to cooperate.
A cooperation between platforms that clearly are striving towards similar ends can only be a good thing for both.
How shallow or deep will the level of cooperation go? (shrugs) Don't know, I'm not a psychic! I do know that the ClearFoundation Committee certainly appreciates the perspective provided by a cross section of members of the SME community.
Both packages have strengths and weaknesses that differ from each other. My hope is for cooperation and not competition. None of the polarised, jumping ship attitudes, expressed elsewhere in this thread are helpful, but these attempts at cooperation demonstrate a real future for both packages.
That's my 2 bobs worth from way back here in the cheap seats.