Topic: Trials finished results summary

[stephdl]

There's so much excellent work being done on this project that I have decided to stick with it and delay my roll-out. I feel convinced that a suitable Groupware (email and calendaring particularly) is just around the corner so I will wait a while longer in the short term.

Later I hope to discover a way that I can be more helpful for the project and get involved in some way.

In the meantime I shall continue to "play" on my test server and get to a point where I am comfortable with 'under the hood' tinkering.

nice vision of life NoTo

Try to make a virtual environment to test things, it is often better than a real test server, because when you break the server, it needs more time to make it again.
If you are not familiar with virtualization, you can work with virtualbox (it is what i use) it is quite easy. Install a VM, set some ibays and few users, then after that you can make a full clone many time you need.

nice to see a new contributor in the project

[NoTo]

Where would you like me to post errors, RequestedDeletion?

I get these:

Code: [Select]

Configuration of the Webaccess

/bin/chown: cannot access `/var/lib/zarafa-webaccess/tmp': No such file or directory
/bin/chown: cannot access `/var/lib/zarafa-webapp/tmp': No such file or directory

and

Code: [Select]

Starting Zarafa-services

/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 4: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-dagent: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 5: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-gateway: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 6: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-ical: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 8: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-monitor: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 9: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-spooler: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 10: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-indexer: No such file or directory
/etc/e-smith/events/actions/zarafa-services: line 11: /etc/rc.d/init.d/zarafa-server: No such file or directory


and

Code: [Select]

creating Public store

./install-zarafa7.0.sh: line 1137: /usr/bin/zarafa-admin: No such file or directory

All done. You must perform a: signal-event post-upgrade; signal-event reboot


[Stefano]

NoTo, since you are just testing, I'd suggest you to give SOGo another chance..

Zarafa's web UI is great but I think you should consider that:
- Zarafa is a M$ Exchange replacement: all the emails are stored in a single db (but the attached files thata are stored in the fs).. you can easily migrate TO zarafa, you surely will have many troubles to migrate FROM Zarafa..
- debugging Zarafa's errors is sometime hard because it has the same error codes you'll find in exchange..

SOGo is a fully opensource project.. no licenses needed, you can install and uninstall it without affecting yor server.. you can have the same email client on (almost) all O.S. (windows, linux, mac OSX, bsd and all the ooss supported by TB)
SOGo uses the standard daemons on the server, Zarafa needs its ones to work side by side with SME's ones (see the .qmail custom file)

HTH
ciao

[NoTo]

NoTo, since you are just testing, I'd suggest you to give SOGo another chance..

Zarafa's web UI is great but I think you should consider that:
- Zarafa is a M$ Exchange replacement: all the emails are stored in a single db (but the attached files thata are stored in the fs).. you can easily migrate TO zarafa, you surely will have many troubles to migrate FROM Zarafa..
- debugging Zarafa's errors is sometime hard because it has the same error codes you'll find in exchange..

SOGo is a fully opensource project.. no licenses needed, you can install and uninstall it without affecting yor server.. you can have the same email client on (almost) all O.S. (windows, linux, mac OSX, bsd and all the ooss supported by TB)
SOGo uses the standard daemons on the server, Zarafa needs its ones to work side by side with SME's ones (see the .qmail custom file)

HTH
ciao

I would like to Stefano, but I have far too many issues installing it with my low level of expertise. So far I have never got beyond the stage that the url is not found on my server when I browse there. I also get too may errors at the terminal when I try to follow the install on the contrib.

[Stefano]

I would like to Stefano, but I have far too many issues installing it with my low level of expertise. So far I have never got beyond the stage that the url is not found on my server when I browse there. I also get too may errors at the terminal when I try to follow the install on the contrib.

I'm seeing you having issue with Zarafa too

if you read carefully the wiki page (http://wiki.contribs.org/Sogo) you should be able to install it without any (big) issue and, in any case, we're here..

once you'll have SOGo working on a test server and Zarafa on another one, you can do all the tests you want, expecially on the admin side

all IMHO

[NoTo]

I'm seeing you having issue with Zarafa too

if you read carefully the wiki page (http://wiki.contribs.org/Sogo) you should be able to install it without any (big) issue and, in any case, we're here..

once you'll have SOGo working on a test server and Zarafa on another one, you can do all the tests you want, expecially on the admin side

all IMHO

Yes, my day is filled with all kinds of issues, not just Zarafa and SoGo 

I will try again later when I have got some work done 

[guest22]

Where would you like me to post errors, RequestedDeletion?

I'll take a look at it later today/evening. Thanks.

guest

[guest22]

Zarafa's web UI is great but I think you should consider that:
- Zarafa is a M$ Exchange replacement: all the emails are stored in a single db (but the attached files thata are stored in the fs).. you can easily migrate TO zarafa, you surely will have many troubles to migrate FROM Zarafa..

Attachment storage with Zarafa can be either on the fs (default in the script and backup up by default SME Server mechanisms) or in the database. A simple setting in a config file.

[Stefano]

Attachment storage with Zarafa can be either on the fs (default in the script and backup up by default SME Server mechanisms) or in the database. A simple setting in a config file.

indeed, I'm aware of it..

but all emails are into a single db (which can become very big)..
if you decide to migrate your email to (let's say) a clean SME you must extract them form zarafa.. and it could be very tricky (tested on my skin..)

with sogo or other kind of groupware that use standard maildir format, migration is almost easy as "one, two, three.." (Cit.)

[guest22]

Stefano,

I believe that once one has made a corporate choice for an email/calendaring platform based on many considerations, changing this platform will not happen any time soon. With regards to any change in platform in the future the question would be if the data is available and if it can be migrated. The level of difficulty to migrate, in my opinion, to a new future platform would not be a priority other then if it can be done and at what effort.

As with most of the GPL licensed applications, the data itself is stored based on GPL licensed applications. With all their benefits.

Other topics of interest would be the user experience and satisfaction, manageability and security and if applicable scalability, all based on a broader corporate strategy of business continuity.

Obviously NoTo is examining every angle on this and for a reason, probably that he is entrusted with this responsibility by his company. The only thing we should/can do is provide the best info we can based on SME Server. The choice what strategy to follow is up to the decision maker.

Hence the contribs.org wiki has no favourites and simply presents the possibilities. Whatever one may choose to do or select as an application or method, it's up to them.

Since NoTo introduced himself as a professional with good social, technical and management skills, I'm sure he will make the right choice for his company.

guest

[johnp]

HF and Stefano both provide articulate responses. As I haven't installed Sogo, I can only say that Zarafa looks slick. I have followed the developement of the open xchange project for some time though and looking down the road, I would be hard pressed not to go the Sogo route.

I don't think either choice would be bad. Hopefully we can continue to discuss the merits of either as that would be my goal.

Good topic for debate and discussion, IMHO. Thanks for starting it!

[guest22]

Where would you like me to post errors, RequestedDeletion?

NoTo,

my bad, I forgot to include a variable. Corrected it in the wiki script.

guest

[guest22]

but all emails are into a single db (which can become very big)..
if you decide to migrate your email to (let's say) a clean SME you must extract them form zarafa.. and it could be very tricky (tested on my skin..)

Stefano,

with regards to the size of the data, wouldn't the size be the same with both SoGo and Zarafa wherever or however the data is stored?

Migration to a new SME Server would be as easy as restoring a default SME Server backup for (with Zarafa) the attachments would be either in the MySQL db or file system directory and both are being backed up and restored by SME Server (8 and 9) by default.

Regards,
guest

ps. If you refer to a 'clean' SME Server, thus without any email/calendaring platform, other than falling back to stock SME Server, I sincerely doubt that that will ever happen in a corporate environment. Not even as an intermediate solution 'in between' migrating to a new platform of choice.

[Stefano]

Stefano,

with regards to the size of the data, wouldn't the size be the same with both SoGo and Zarafa wherever or however the data is stored?

sure but..

but with Zarafa you have data into a mysql db (with a "unknown" structure), with SOGo/SME you have a filesystem strucure: directories, files.. and they are available without any problem

Migration to a new SME Server would be as easy as restoring a default SME Server backup for (with Zarafa) the attachments would be either in the MySQL db or file system directory and both are being backed up and restored by SME Server (8 and 9) by default.

I would be surprised if they weren't

ps. If you refer to a 'clean' SME Server, thus without any email/calendaring platform, other than falling back to stock SME Server, I sincerely doubt that that will ever happen in a corporate environment. Not even as an intermediate solution 'in between' migrating to a new platform of choice.

try to migrate from SME/SOGo to any other kind of groupware solution (Zimbra?) and from SME/Zarafa..

in the first case you can (also) uninstall SOGo and your server will work without any issue.. and to migrate you can copy your maildir to the target machine and voilà, you are almost done..
with Zarafa, if you want to move to another solution, you have to "extract" emails from Zarafa itself.. and this is/could be a little tricky

SOGo is a "package" that offer a web UI, some features but relies on the local daemons and filesystem
Zarafa is a package that need to use its own daemons and data structure.. GPL or not, the approach in this case is different from the "standard" way (and more like the M$/proprietary way)

[NoTo]

Thankyou both for the interesting information on the different ways that Sogo and Zarafa store data. Neither way worries me, as both are good systems with good reputations and survive in organisations much, much bigger than mine. I'd be happy to get just one of them up and running 

At the moment, Zarafa is looking easier for me to get up and running, but I am trying to get both running on the test machines so that users can make the decision. Over the years I have found that if I can give the users what they're most happy with, they will use it with more enthusiasm and be much more tolerant if things go wrong. I even found that naming the server after a cartoon character makes them much warmer towards using IT systems. It kind of makes them treat it like a colleague rather than annoying technology that spoils their day 

But all that said, I'm way out of date now. I left the IT sector just when NT4 was coming in. I spent most of my IT career looking after MP/M systems and later Netware 2 and 3, and I lost count of how many nights I spent nursing a PDP11 back to life